Breer: Welker at OTAs, in uniform, brace on

[RussFrancis]

Asante Samuel was a 26-year old whose best days were ahead of him. Randy Moss will be a 33-year old whose best days are behind him. Very different scenarios. Seymour is a much better comparison; there was no way the Patriots would trade Asante if they had even the slightest hope of re-signing him.

I dont think the scenarios are that different at all. Their ages are certainly different. We made a Superbowl push in 2007. Consequently, we sucked it up and paid Samuel 'franchise' money. We're making a Superbowl push this year. Brady's a full 2 years beyond his injury, and he's been given more weapons. Our D is still considerably younger, but with much more experience in the system. This is NOT the year to trade away a player like Moss, unlike last season when we robbed Oakland blind in the Seymour deal. Moss isnt drawing a first-rounder from anyone.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Does this mean it was just a partial tear?

I know...did he even tear it... JK but wow! I'm getting nothing done today, nothing. :singing:

 

[Bostonian1962]

Twitter / Albert Breer: Welker in uniform at ota's ...

You're blankin' kidding me? This guy is a freak! I can honestly say that I'm not surprised. He's the best at what he does for a reason.

If you're a teammate, and see this kind of effort to get back, how can you not bust butt yourself?

 

[pats1]

He's still a game changer who dictates defense. Receivers like that are hard to come by.

Me, I'd rather just extend Moss for a similar contract as we just gave him. Give him 2 or 3 more years at 9 million. He's already lost a step and he still gets double teamed as much as anybody in the league. His height, hands and intelligence is what makes him good now, and that's not going to disappear over night.

Wow, can't wait to read this board in 2013 when it's talking about a 36-year old Moss making 9 million a year to be a decoy.

 

[Sivy]

Wow, can't wait to read this board in 2013 when it's talking about a 36-year old Moss making 9 million a year to be a decoy.

Who cares how much money they spend..its not our money. Moss is the man!

 

[Bostonian1962]

Does this mean it was just a partial tear? Thats the only way this makes sense. Off course we will never know.

I don't think that's true. I had a complete tear of my right ACL, and was 100 %, 9 Weeks Post-Op. Sure, it's takes a special man, the likes of myself and Wes to pull this off, but, I'm just sayin'..................

 

[BradyManny]

Wow, can't wait to read this board in 2013 when it's talking about a 36-year old Moss making 9 million a year to be a decoy.

83 catches, 1264 yards, 13 TDs - while playing with a separated shoulder - that's more than just being a decoy. He's still a beast, production wise.

 

[pats1]

I dont think the scenarios are that different at all. Their ages are certainly different. We made a Superbowl push in 2007. Consequently, we sucked it up and paid Samuel 'franchise' money. We're making a Superbowl push this year. Brady's a full 2 years beyond his injury, and he's been given more weapons. Our D is still considerably younger, but with much more experience in the system. This is NOT the year to trade away a player like Moss, unlike last season when we robbed Oakland blind in the Seymour deal. Moss isnt drawing a first-rounder from anyone.

I would disagree with the notion that they're making a "Super Bowl push" this year. They have two first round picks next season, and two second round picks. They've been working on trimming fat (AD, Springs, Baker, Watson, Green) and will probably continue to do that between now and the start of the season (Light or Kaczur?). They stayed fairly conservative during the offseason period, re-signing selective players and not pulling any major trades or making big signings like they did in 2007. They made 12 draft picks, which will be added to the 12 draft picks of last season. They will have a rookie/1st year starting at ILB (McKenzie or Spikes), a rookie/2nd year starting at CB (Butler or McCourty), maybe a 2nd year starting at FS (Chung), and two rookies at TE.

Everything they've done this offseason points to fixing everything that's gone awry the past two seasons and setting up the team for long-term future success, not holding on to veteran players for one more go-around (i.e. the 2009-10 Celtics). Trading Moss for a future asset would fit right in with their approach this offseason.

 

[Ryan]

Wow. That's a stunner. A welcome one. Awesome to hear. Having Wes ready for week 1 would be amazing but I won't get my hopes up too high yet.

 

[RussFrancis]

I would disagree with the notion that they're making a "Super Bowl push" this year. They have two first round picks next season, and two second round picks. They've been working on trimming fat (AD, Springs, Baker, Watson, Green) and will probably continue to do that between now and the start of the season (Light or Kaczur?). They stayed fairly conservative during the offseason period, re-signing selective players and not pulling any major trades or making big signings like they did in 2007. They made 12 draft picks, which will be added to the 12 draft picks of last season. They will have a rookie/1st year starting at ILB (McKenzie or Spikes), a rookie/2nd year starting at CB (Butler or McCourty), maybe a 2nd year starting at FS (Chung), and two rookies at TE.

Everything they've done this offseason points to fixing everything that's gone awry the past two seasons and setting up the team for long-term future success, not holding on to veteran players for one more go-around (i.e. the 2009-10 Celtics). Trading Moss for a future asset would fit right in with their approach this offseason.

And we'll be improved at every single position vacated by those former Patriots. Thomas had a miserable '09. Improving upon his "productivity" is a given. Green was an undersized non-starter who had 3 sacks in 2 years. Anyone filling that role will clearly be an improvement. Springs was an old, injury prone CB that made few plays, and offered little in the way of leadership. Watson was always a personal favorite of mine, but the TEs we've assembled currently will be far, far more effective that what we received from the position from he and Baker last season.

If you dont think this team is making a SB push this year, despite the youth, youre unfortunately mistaken.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Obviously it's a downgrade, but I don't think it's that simple. The Pats don't very often just have Moss and Welker on the field. Instead of Moss, Welker, and say Holt on the field, you'd have Welker, Edelman, and Holt on the field, or Welker, Edelman, Tate, or Welker, Holt, Price, etc. Trading Moss would go along with a new offensive philosophy which would harken back to the more balanced attacks of the Super Bowl era. Instead of playing Moss as a decoy or trying to force deep passes, you'd have three or four receivers on the field, not even including Gronkowski or Hernandez, one of whom is bound to be open, and all of whom are capable of catching a pass when they are open. So in other words, you don't necessarily need to have that #1 superstar WR on the field - you have #3, #4 options who can actually catch (sorry Aiken, sorry Galloway) and can have just as effective an offense that way (especially on 3rd downs/red zone when the defense can't focus on one guy, a HUGE problem for the Pats in 2009), provided you have some running game/play action that can set up some semblance of a deep threat. That leaves a Superstar WR like Moss expendable, and thus a tradeable asset that can help you in other areas of the team which aren't as set.

This is a non-issue. Welker coming back after major surgery will not mean they will trade Moss. Welker is a slot receiver. Edelman replaced Welker at slot. What number one receiver will replace Moss? Tate, coming off injury into essentially his rookie season? 82 year old Holt? 3rd Round draft pick, who has missed the OTAs and also a rookie, Price?

Come on man, you're wasting our time with this. Yeah, we lost our Pro Bowl receiver Welker to a serious injury, so getting him back quickly off of injury means we should trade our other Pro Bowl caliber receiver. Huh????????????????????????????????????????

 

[pats1]

Who cares how much money they spend..its not our money. Moss is the man!

So was Lawyer, so was Bledsoe, so was Seymour, so was Rodney, so was Bruschi, so was Willie, so was Vrabel, so was Troy, so was Dillon, so was Adam, so was Givens, so was Branch, so was Graham, so was Andruzzi, so was Asante, so was Woody...

Fans have short memories. The wide receiver who makes SportsCenter highlight catches and has legions of young fans thinking he is what made the Patriots' dynasty has won zero rings with the team.

The fact that the elementary schoolers and middle schoolers of today growing up thinking that Randy Moss and Tom Brady are what the "winning" Patriots are really all about is somewhat troubling. Someone needs to buy them a DVD and show "way back when" when the Patriots were actually winning Super Bowls by shutting down the Colts 20-3 or pounding the rock to beat the Titans in zero degree weather. Back then it wasn't about individual players, but about out-smarting and out-physicaling opponents.

Somewhere along the way fans have gotten away from the romanticism of that success and have gotten caught up in the star of Randy Moss and Tom Brady, when it was really that sort of thing that Patriots fans mocked seven or eight years ago (Peyton to Harrison? Warner to Bruce? LT?). An effective team and scheme-based strategy to winning has taken a back seat to sheer athleticism and talent.

Trying the same approach to another season will just lead to another disappointing January where Moss goes 3, 45, 0, the running game is ineffective, the defense can't stop a QB from throwing at will, and the offense can't pull through when it counts because it's too caught up in trying to force passes to that superstar WR who "is the man."

 

[Prufrock]

So I hear this Wes Welker character cares a lot about football confirm/deny?

 

[pats1]

This is a non-issue. Welker coming back after major surgery will not mean they will trade Moss. Welker is a slot receiver. Edelman replaced Welker at slot. What number one receiver will replace Moss? Tate, coming off injury into essentially his rookie season? 82 year old Holt? 3rd Round draft pick, who has missed the OTAs and also a rookie, Price?

Who was the #1 WR in 2001? Brown? Was he the prototypical "X?" No! Who was the #2 WR in 2003? There wasn't one. Who was the #3 WR in 2004? There wasn't one. Who played "X" in 2003? Branch, Givens, Brown. Who played "Z" in 2003? Branch, Givens, Brown. Who played "X" in 2004? Branch, Givens, Patten. Who played "Z" in 2004? Branch, Givens, Patten."

I don't know why we have to keep pidgeon-holing "Welker must play slot." Moss must play "X." Price/Holt/Edelman/Aiken/Galloway/Tate/Gaffney must play "F."

That's not how this offense works, or at least used to work when it was actually winning titles. There wasn't a guy who just played "#1 WR" or a guy who just played "slot WR." There were 3-4 guys who played all three-four WR positions and who were capable of catching the ball when they were open because of a well-run route and a well-called play.

Come on man, you're wasting our time with this. Yeah, we lost our Pro Bowl receiver Welker to a serious injury, so getting him back quickly off of injury means we should trade our other Pro Bowl caliber receiver. Huh????????????????????????????????????????

I can't believe we are now caught up in how many Pro Bowl WRs the team has when we once mocked other teams for having the most Pro Bowl players and then failing in the playoffs as this team has done for the last half decade.

What the hell happened to "we're building a team, not collecting talent" or "the whole is better than the sum of its parts?"

When did we go wrong?

 

[pats1]

And we'll be improved at every single position vacated by those former Patriots. Thomas had a miserable '09. Improving upon his "productivity" is a given. Green was an undersized non-starter who had 3 sacks in 2 years. Anyone filling that role will clearly be an improvement. Springs was an old, injury prone CB that made few plays, and offered little in the way of leadership. Watson was always a personal favorite of mine, but the TEs we've assembled currently will be far, far more effective that what we received from the position from he and Baker last season.

I never disagreed with anything you're saying, hence why I called those players "fat" to be trimmed. The fact of the matter is, they are all being replaced with young players (Cunningham, Gronkowksi, Hernandez, McCourty, Butler, Crable) who will take time to develop. If the Patriots had gone out and signed Darren Sharper, Karlos Dansby, and traded for Anquan Boldin, then that would be different.

You are only making my point. Drafting Gronkowski and Hernandez is an obvious improvement over Watson and Baker, but those players aren't necessarily going to come in Day 1 and perform up to their full potential. They re-tooled the position in order to make it better in the long term.

If you dont think this team is making a SB push this year, despite the youth, youre unfortunately mistaken.

I don't think the team makes "Super Bowl pushes" any year. I don't think the team makes any year a "rebuilding year." The team does not operate in "windows" and it never has. It makes balanced decisions based on both the present and the future. Not trading Moss when he still has trade value and there is sufficient depth at the position, all in the name of "making a SB push" would not be considering the future, and thus is not something the team would do.

 

[QB12]

...
If you're a teammate, and see this kind of effort to get back, how can you not bust butt yourself?

My first thought exactly. He's setting the tone for everyone (and I mean everyone) to follow.

Jerryworld (Dallas' new stadium) or bust baby!

 

[JSn]

@albertbreer on twitter just a few minutes ago...

More on Welker -- Very impressive cutting and weaving through a cone drill. That was most significant.

 

[JSn]

The full goods:

The lowdown on Welker - Extra Points - Boston.com

Excerpt:

To be clear, the Patriots can still put him on PUP, which is what has been assumed to be what they'll do. That decision comes at the start of training camp, with another one to follow (the one that would sideline him through Week 6) at the final roster cutdown. But after today? All that looks like a much less likely scenario.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

My first thought exactly. He's setting the tone for everyone (and I mean everyone) to follow.

:agree:

Are we sure that Welker is not, in fact, an android?

 

[JoeSixPat]

My first thought exactly. He's setting the tone for everyone (and I mean everyone) to follow.

Jerryworld (Dallas' new stadium) or bust baby!

My first thought as well...

This is going to pump everyone up, set a great example, and give everyone hope that a key player is going to be able to contribute - rather than be on the sideline all season like I thought he would be (and like any normal person should be).

I still worry about Welker doing too much too soon and the inability of the trainers to prevent him from putting too much stress on a recovering knee, but that's all out of our control anyway.

For now its nice to think we might just see him fully recover and be the same old Welker THIS season and not just next.