PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Breer on the Pats' Problems: secondary, pass rush, offensive line


Status
Not open for further replies.
First let me state that I'm fine with the Pats flying under the radar for the next few weeks. This is a very young team and lowered expectations will probably be appreciated. But the fact is that no team in the league has to deal with more unreasonable expectations from the general public and their own fan base than the New England Patriots.

Let me also say that few reporters bring less credibility to the table than Bert Breer. He is Greg Bedard light, without the knowledge or work ethic. Most of his work is gossip and hearsay. Lets look at the reality and see if it matches up with what Breer and his anonymous "NFL Execs" say.

The Problems of the OL - What problems on the OL, compared to whom? We have the 5th best rushing offense, the 5th best passing offense, and the best total offense, the best scoring offense. Plus both Cold Hard football facts AND Football Outsiders have rated the Pats the best performing OL in the league. All this while having a first year starter at C and LT, both starting OGs out for multiple games, and a RT with a bad back who has missed games.

Well if WE are having problems with the OL, what the hell is happening with the other 31 teams in the league. They'd LOVE to be having our problems.

As to the the lack of a rush, blitzes and stunts, no one has cried out more for a more aggressive attitude than I. But I also understand that I don't have all the information, and there can be some very good reasons why the Pats haven't "unleashed the hounds" to this point. No matter we might not like to hear it, the guys who are making the decisions that we so disagree with, are a LOT smarter than we are.....AND they have a lot more data on which to base their opinions than we have.

So as much as we'd like to think we are perfectly right in our condemnation of their strategies, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt as to why they are holding off to this point.

As to the problems with the secondary. Every other team in the league gets to trot out their injuries as a reason for execution problems.....except it seems the Patriots. The injuries along the OL and TE weren't part of Breer little hatchet job. Neither were the loss of both starting S's in the secondary and the dislocation that that brought.

Also it begs the fact that although the results still aren't good or even acceptable, one still can't deny that it isn't markedly better than last season at this time. Both statistically and through the eyeball test.

One would think that after all this time BB and his staff would have earned a little more patience from his own fanbase. Have we so quickly forgotten that last season's statistically historically bad defense, when it got more playing time together and the much maligned Pat Chung back, turned into the 5th best defense among the playoff teams in most categories. And because of the pain of that last drive in the superbowl, we forgot that that same much maligned defense held one of the best offenses in the league (5th passing and 8th total) to under 20 points and caused 4 fumbles, an effort that would have won most games

Those of you who seem to either be panicking or ready to jump ship because we aren't winning by big enough margins or had the temerity to lose 3 games by 4 points in ugly fashion, haven't been watching this team closely the last few years.

I acknowledge that its troubling to see us lose 4 fourth quarters en route to those 3 loses. Just as it was troubling to see us lose those early leads. Things clearly aren't where they need to be. BUT the good news is, they don't need to be there yet. This defense WILL get better. This offense WILL become more cohesive. Roles are being carved out. Depth is being created. Our flaws are being over emphasized, while are strengths are being underestimated. This is a team that is going to the playoffs, and should be at its best when that time arrives.

As to this week, the team is still pretty banged up, but we will squeak out a win over an improving Rams team, and the predictions of the Pats demise will continue to increase because of the lack of a blowout. But I warn you, watch out for this team as it starts to get people healthy coming out the bye.....and all this hand wringing will seem like a bad dream by mid December.
 
nice post...on Breer I can only concur 100%...the thing is, unlike a lot of others , I NEVER liked him from the start.

I agree with the ideas that the defense and offense are improving...slowly...too slow for a lot of fans...but this does fit with the way the Pats have played under BB.

I haven't looked at one game so far where I felt comfortable with predicting a large margin of victory...until now. I think you're wrong about this being a close game. I think the Pats may well double them up ...say 34-17...this may as well be another home game for the Pats, it is familiar to them and the Rams have some significant issues right now on both sides of the ball.

That's my two cents ,Ken...
 
I agree with almost all your comments. Complaining about the offense is truly unbelievable. The ONLY complaint I have is the inability to put a team away. And, yes, I understand this is a difficult task, given our defense.
====================
Your defense of the secondary is not easy to understand. Arrington may be the worst starting corner for any competitive team. Perhaps he would be OK as a dime back, competing with Moore for reps.

As I indicated a week ago, we need to give Dennard and Dowling lots of reps and hope that they develop during the season. McCourty-Dennard-Dowling will certainly not strike terror into any offense, but they are the best chance we have for a Super Bowl winning set of corners.

Which two starting safeties are you talking about? Sanders and Meriweather? The guys that Belichick fired in favor of Barrett and Brown? There was no bad luck involved. This was a conscious decision. Curiously, I am much more believing with regard to the safeties than the corners. Chung-Gregory-Wilson can be an acceptable set of safeties when all are healthy (presuming that Wilson continues to develop). I can even see Moore as the #4 safety. Belichick addressed the safety position this year and for the future with Gregory, Wilson and Ebner.

With regard to the corners, apparently Belichick was satisfied with talent he had with McCourty, Arrington, Dowling and Moore. Dennard producing so quickly has been a major bonus. Perhaps this group can stop making all-pro quarterbacks out of below average quarterbacks by the time the playoffs come around.



As to the problems with the secondary. Every other team in the league gets to trot out their injuries as a reason for execution problems.....except it seems the Patriots. The injuries along the OL and TE weren't part of Breer little hatchet job. Neither were the loss of both starting S's in the secondary and the dislocation that that brought.

Also it begs the fact that although the results still aren't good or even acceptable, one still can't deny that it isn't markedly better than last season at this time. Both statistically and through the eyeball test.
 
No shockers here. The secondary is the scary problem and they have to be coached up and develop for the Patriots to have a real shot at winning it all this season. The OL is playing well and with Scarnecchia coaching them will always be solid. The talent is not there in the way it has been in the past but Solder, Mankins, Vollmer certainly form a good core, losing Waters early sucked though.

Lloyd is not a true deep threat but he's a really good WR who makes the tough catches and is really productive, he's struggled with Brady to date but I really believe this gets worked out and pays off big time for them. McDaniels has a host of weapons and the only thing really lacking is the burner, and they should be able to use what they have to get back to the Super Bowl, at least in terms of offense, the defense will depend upon the development of the young defensive players. if they really come together by december then this team should be in great shape for the playoffs, if not they will go down due to the kinds of big plays we have been seeing lately, and that would really suck. I like the fact that Belichick went for the young players and the ceiling and hope they can get them where they need to be, given the state of the AFC it's a pretty good bet they will go pretty deep in this years play-offs.
 
blah blah blah. The Patriots only significant "problem" has been a new OC trying to resurrect his reputation by proving that he could get the job done without centering the offense around possibly the hardest to stop QB/Reciever combo in the history of the game. (and by not realizing that Tom Brady/Wes Welker >>>>Sam Bradford/Danny Amendola). duh.

All you can ask of a guy is to be able to learn from his mistakes, and McDaniels has turned out to be a harder nut to crack than most.
 
not haveing Light and Waters on the OL has made the OL a lot weaker from last year but the only real problem i see with this offense is that if they dont score 40 points a game it's going to be a close game in the 4th QT because the pass defense is just bad
 
Breer seems to play off the emotions of the un-Football-educated fans. If you think our OL is a problem I encourage you to sit down and watch a Cardinals, Bears or Chargers game without cringing.
 
Last edited:
Breer seems to play off the emotions of the un-Football-educated fans. If you think our OL is a problem I encourage you to sit down and watch a Cardinals, Bears or Chargers game without cringing.

I think it's a little bit in-between the two extemes. The OL is playing fairly well, and is still better than most in the league, so overall we're fortunate. It's better than most people expected, and given all of the losses (Light, Waters, Gallery) and injuries (Vollmer, Mankins, Connolly) it's been pretty darn good. Wendell, Thomas and McDonald have all stepped up at times, and Solder's turned out to be pretty darn good. The run blocking has been exception. But there's definitely been a bit of a drop off from last year in terms of the pass protection, and the loss of Waters and Light has had an impact, so I do think that the OL play has had some effect on the overall performance of the offense.
 
Breer seems to play off the emotions of the un-Football-educated fans....

Slight riff off of this: So I turn on NFLN this morning, now, trying to catch a little football before work. And their morning show has some freaking segment on show biz and pop "culture." While I'm waiting for some football — you know, maybe an on-air companion to Breer's article — they discuss PDiddy's accident, Mad Men set photos and Price is Right using male models. I know it's all about pulling in the non-fans, but I literally had to double check and make sure I was on the right station. As they say over the pond, bloody friggin' hell.

Edit: Jeezus. Now they're doing a "would you rather" segment based on last night's game and the lengthiest discussion is "listen to Ray Charles or Prince" (Fla vs Minn I guess). Criminy. If they're trying to pull viewers from The Today Show, well, they're losing me. They were better off just replaying the previous night's programming.

Click.
 
Last edited:
First let me state that I'm fine with the Pats flying under the radar for the next few weeks. This is a very young team and lowered expectations will probably be appreciated. But the fact is that no team in the league has to deal with more unreasonable expectations from the general public and their own fan base than the New England Patriots.

:agree:

I'm thrilled to see the Pats fiy under the radar. The more "what's wrong with the Pats?" and "the Pats are not an elite team" articles I see, the better. I don't want to be a front runner. It's hard to win the race as the pace horse.
 
Pretty much sums it up. I chuckle when I read one on one assessments like PFF makes that rate this OL in the top 10. That is what happens when you lack perspective in analysis.

Nice observation on how Josh has developed into an outside in guy while BOB was an inside out guy. The difference in having Moss in 2007 and 2009 I'd bet had a lot to do with that differing style. BOB wanted an outside presence enough to get into it with Brady over coaching 'em up in game...but he never attempted to force feed him Ocho or some ST player... I'm sure everything Josh draws up on paper sounds genius. Problem is unless things work perfectly genius and 50 cents will get you a cup of coffee and a stalled offense on the field when it matters. Probably sucks because if everyone was healthy and elitely talented it would probably all work out swimmingly. You have to be able to win when that isn't the case. Josh struggled with that in 2005 and 2006. Might have learned a few things during that time but 2007 likely got him overthinking. He needs to remember that it was followed by 2008. And his brief stints as a HC in Denver and OC in St. Louis.

The secondary is a tough situation because you can't afford to consistently field a team full of pro bowlers and choices get made. We have a lot of developing talent in the front 7, including some later round draft picks. Just hasn't panned out in the secondary. I do think that decent corners could emerge even from the present mix if they could just find that savvy field general to play safety at a high level while directing traffic for the entire unit. Just think that locating that guy remains at least a season away.

Ergo better get that offense more consistent and able to adapt to all challenges. That starts with stability in the trenches and the ability to pass and run block - including power run blocking - pretty consistently. And focusing a little less on paper scenarios and matchups and a little more on being consistently prepared to execute what we do best.

:confused:

We're the number one offense in the NFL right now and a number of the drives that stalled out in the Jets game were either due to drops or bonehead penalties where it looked like the offense was otherwise on the move.
 
The big picture:

1.) Win the division. You win and you're in. That's the goal of the regular season.

2.) This team has a number of issues, but no MAJOR issues. It's a young team more than anything else and looking to gel, to define itself. It will only get better as they get more games under their belts, and injured players return.

Come the playoffs, this will be a very powerful team to deal with.
 
What the need is a better conditioning coach. They cant put teams away because they run 10,000 plays before the 4th with the no huddle and are gassed out.
 
Well, Mayo did get called for a hold when he was sitting on the sideline so you never know what could happen in the nfl these days.

I thought that was hilarious :)
 
He's been great for the Jets, against the run and in coverage. Landry isn't Ed Reed but I think it's silly to say he wouldn't have helped stabilize the secondary.

Landry cannot cover, I do not know why anybody would think he would stablize anything. His whole problem in Washington was that he would freelance too much and couldn't cover.
 
Landry cannot cover, I do not know why anybody would think he would stablize anything. His whole problem in Washington was that he would freelance too much and couldn't cover.

Yup. Apparently his coaches had enough of it too. He'd be given a job, practice it up all week, look good, and then come game day just sport of make it up as he went along.

He could be a REALLY good player if he actually tried working within the defense scheme that's called. I don't think that's going to happen, though, not after all these examples.
 
Landry cannot cover, I do not know why anybody would think he would stablize anything. His whole problem in Washington was that he would freelance too much and couldn't cover.

Neither can anybody in our secondary.
 
blah blah blah. The Patriots only significant "problem" has been a new OC trying to resurrect his reputation by proving that he could get the job done without centering the offense around possibly the hardest to stop QB/Reciever combo in the history of the game. (and by not realizing that Tom Brady/Wes Welker >>>>Sam Bradford/Danny Amendola). duh.

All you can ask of a guy is to be able to learn from his mistakes, and McDaniels has turned out to be a harder nut to crack than most.

It used to be that scoring 30 points was an accomplishment worthy of note. Unless of course you are the New England Patriots where NOT scoring 30 is a sign of incompetence. In fact the mere fact of punting the ball is a sign of abject failure

The Pats #1 in just about every offensive category available and its STILL not good enough to satisfy some Patriot fans and the media. We are truly an amazing fan base. :rolleyes:.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Back
Top