Breaking News, We Lost One Game

[Deus Irae]

Its the extremes I think Andy's referring too, I think the fans have come to expect way to much from this team, 2007 aint gonna happen again in our lifetime, 11-5, 12-4 and playing well in Dec on is good enough for long time fans. Get in the playoffs and have the potential to do some damage is all we should ask for.
Nothing wrong with pointing out flaws and bad plays but theres a lot on this board that think the sky is falling and its over, I see it in real life too, Ive had 2 people ask me this week if the I thought the Patriots run was over and if I see us going back to the days of no playoffs etc.. Brady's done blah blah Thats what Andy's referring too and I agree with him.

Andy was going after me over the Buffalo game, time and again. It's not the extremes. I'm not in a panic mode by any stretch, but it's clear that the team needs to vastly improve on both sides of the ball and on special teams. Without a special teams fumble recovery, this team would be 0-2 right now, including 0-2 in the division. That's not Chicken Little. That's just the reality of the situation.

And, for the record, until Brady shows that he can be Brady for more than just 5 minutes against a depleted Bills unit running the same defense over and over, the questions about the Patriots run will keep coming and will be perfectly valid to ask. Anyone who watched 11-5 last season even with a QB playing very solid football can reasonably believe that it's Brady that makes this little engine run at seemingly better than peak efficiency.

 

[Poker]

Here's what I take comfort in: When the team itself wins or loses, there's and entire world of media, fans, experts which swirls around them wildly gyrating with every w or l, every single week.

The foundation of these Pats, the very bedrock which has been there for years even as a lot of personnel has changed, is that they are back to work improving and not listening to a single word of it. That's the only thing that will matter as the season rolls on.

 

[Ring 6]

This is part of the problem, expecting domination, 2007 was a once in a lifetime season, you dont have to dominate all year to win a super bowl, just get in and be gelling at the right time ala 2001 SB



Its the extremes I think Andy's referring too, I think the fans have come to expect way to much from this team, 2007 aint gonna happen again in our lifetime, 11-5, 12-4 and playing well in Dec on is good enough for long time fans. Get in the playoffs and have the potential to do some damage is all we should ask for.
Nothing wrong with pointing out flaws and bad plays but theres a lot on this board that think the sky is falling and its over, I see it in real life too, Ive had 2 people ask me this week if the I thought the Patriots run was over and if I see us going back to the days of no playoffs etc.. Brady's done blah blah Thats what Andy's referring too and I agree with him.

Yes. I have no problem with any assessment, even if its made more negatively than I believe it should be, but I have a big problem with assessments that ignore history (the BB is a moron because he doesnt blitz more) reality (the were doomed cause Brady sucks) just exaggerate (everything is broken and the areas we played well in were only because the other team is incompetant after a win and 7 point loss on the road) or decide that losing one game means more than losing one game.
Thats OK though, its clear that the board wants to jump to conclusions, exagerate negatviely and wallow. I just will ignore it.

 

[MassPats38]

i disagree that it's a mob mentality since a lot of us have been fighting the fight.

look, there are people on this board who expected the O to take up right where it left off at the end of the 2007 season. i never had that expectation; in your one a week thread i said before the season began that on paper this was a 13 or 14 win team, but that i thought there were too many uncertainties given tommy's return, the reshuffled deck on D and the usual vagaries of an NFL season (like, most recently, injuries to Mayo and Welker that kept them out of the Jets game) to get my head around more than an 11 win season by a team that would get better and better as the year went on, make the Playoffs and then compete for the SB...that's exactly what I still believe.

I don't care if we start 4--3 into the Bye, as long as the team is gelling week by week. This team is too talented and the coaches are too good not to get it together and kick butt as the season goes on and peak at the right time into the Playoffs. That's been my story since Week -1 and I'm sticking to it.

Well said. There are teams returning exactly as they left and did not suffer major injuries or major personnel changes. For those on the "kool-aid" kick, teams do not naturally go 14-2 or 16-0. If you showed up after 2001, you have never seen a losing season and enoyed an average of 12.5 wins a year. That performance buys you some credibility as a coach. Players age, and the organization changes. This is not Madden NFL where you plug players with set attributes into a defense and it executes as expected. I do not think any season in the Belichick-era has involved the changes to the degree of this season, and the marquee QB has just returned after a season on rehab. If anyone can cite an example of an overhaul to this degree that started at perfection, feel free to offer it up for discussion. Most teams enjoy 1 or 2 major changes a season and therefore continuity and experience.

Belichick did not suddenly go stupid and the offense did not suddenly lose all its talent. Defenses and offenses are a bunch of interrelated components that need to learn to complement each other, and 50% turnover among those parts means it gets better over time if the players have the skill set to work in the particular defense or offense. It is absurd to say the Pats are "figured out" or "over" after two games if you actually follow the game. Perform the simple act of reviewing the result when Brady went down (11-5 with many predicting a possible losing season), or comparing the rosters from 2008 and 2009. The team needs to develop and likely will do so during the season. The passes fluttering and inch too wide will likely hit the mark. Is that a guarantee? No. There are no guarantees in the NFL. I am just not wailing about it at square one and am inclined to give the team a few games to pull together and fix the mistakes.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Yes. I have no problem with any assessment, even if its made more negatively than I believe it should be, but I have a big problem with assessments that ignore history (the BB is a moron because he doesnt blitz more) reality (the were doomed cause Brady sucks) just exaggerate (everything is broken and the areas we played well in were only because the other team is incompetant after a win and 7 point loss on the road) or decide that losing one game means more than losing one game.
Thats OK though, its clear that the board wants to jump to conclusions, exagerate negatviely and wallow. I just will ignore it.

Andy just admit it..The Patriots were one Moronic play away by the opposing teams returner from being 0-2 and at the bottom of the East

If that does not make you concerned then too much kool-aid must be flowing up into the cranium.

Only Kool-Aid guys are saying everything is alright at this time and no worries and hearing more of that in BB we trust BS - Trust him or not,BB is not on the field I want to be able to trust the players making plays when BB gives the orders.

In reality normal people like me who don't swallow everything positive BB or the team does,would LOVE to see a game dominated from start to finish and soon before our concerns are negated,at least for the time being.

If there are more positives than negatives that you see right now in the 2 weeks past you tell me what they are.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy just admit it..The Patriots were one Moronic play away by the opposing teams returner from being 0-2 and at the bottom of the East

If that does not make you concerned then too much kool-aid must be flowing up into the cranium.

Only Kool-Aid guys are saying everything is alright at this time and no worries and hearing more of that in BB we trust BS - Trust him or not,BB is not on the field I want to be able to trust the players making plays when BB gives the orders.

In reality normal people like me who don't swallow everything positive BB or the team does,would LOVE to see a game dominated from start to finish and soon before our concerns are negated,at least for the time being.

If there are more positives than negatives that you see right now in the 2 weeks past you tell me what they are.

Right because my point was that everything is perfect and any negative comment must be wrong.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy was going after me over the Buffalo game, time and again. It's not the extremes. I'm not in a panic mode by any stretch, but it's clear that the team needs to vastly improve on both sides of the ball and on special teams. Without a special teams fumble recovery, this team would be 0-2 right now, including 0-2 in the division. That's not Chicken Little. That's just the reality of the situation.

And, for the record, until Brady shows that he can be Brady for more than just 5 minutes against a depleted Bills unit running the same defense over and over, the questions about the Patriots run will keep coming and will be perfectly valid to ask. Anyone who watched 11-5 last season even with a QB playing very solid football can reasonably believe that it's Brady that makes this little engine run at seemingly better than peak efficiency.

No. I argue one point, you said their OL 'stoned' our DL, and I asked how that fit the facts that they ran for 3.8ypc and got sacked 4 times in about 19 legitimate dropbacks.
The fact that you continued to respond to something I wasn't talking about hardly adds up to me 'going after' you 'time and again'.
The only reason it wasnt a 3-4 post exchange was that you chose to answer to a different point than the one I made.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I guess we Patriots fans just don' know how lucky were were to have the Rod Rust, Ron Myers, and **** McPhearson era's.

BB will fix whatever has gone wrong, I believe that. Had Brady hit Endleman and Galloway when they were open for TD's we wouldn't be having any of these conversations? Brady will be the best QB in the NFL by seasons end, I believe that.

Fans of the Jets can gloat all they want, losers that they are. But I'm still happy with the 4 AFC Championships and almost a 5th, and the 3 Super Bowl Championships that we have since 2001. I have every confidence in these players and coaching staff that they will be in competition for a championship at the end of the year.

Some will say that makes me a kool-aid drinking homer. I say that this team has shown me that they can overcome adversity in the past and there is no reason to think that they wont now.

 

[Deus Irae]

No. I argue one point, you said their OL 'stoned' our DL, and I asked how that fit the facts that they ran for 3.8ypc and got sacked 4 times in about 19 legitimate dropbacks.
The fact that you continued to respond to something I wasn't talking about hardly adds up to me 'going after' you 'time and again'.
The only reason it wasnt a 3-4 post exchange was that you chose to answer to a different point than the one I made.

Except that I quoted each and every response I made to you in that thread in an omnibus response and proved this argument of yours wrong. Nice try, though.

 

[upstater1]

Andy was going after me over the Buffalo game, time and again. It's not the extremes. I'm not in a panic mode by any stretch, but it's clear that the team needs to vastly improve on both sides of the ball and on special teams. Without a special teams fumble recovery, this team would be 0-2 right now, including 0-2 in the division. That's not Chicken Little. That's just the reality of the situation.

And, for the record, until Brady shows that he can be Brady for more than just 5 minutes against a depleted Bills unit running the same defense over and over, the questions about the Patriots run will keep coming and will be perfectly valid to ask. Anyone who watched 11-5 last season even with a QB playing very solid football can reasonably believe that it's Brady that makes this little engine run at seemingly better than peak efficiency.

12-4 is an average Brady year.
So, he gives us an extra win?

While I can agree with most of your post, I figure what's the point of worrying? I'm maybe 1 or 2% worried that Brady won't round into shape. I'm very confident that he'll get back soon.

Plus, the old Brady always had a few games each year just like Sunday's, in losses to the Steelers, Broncos, Dolphins, etc.

 

[maverick4]

Andy just admit it..The Patriots were one Moronic play away by the opposing teams returner from being 0-2 and at the bottom of the East

It's not about drinking Kool-Aid.
I don't think the gentleman has been able to think for himself for a few years now.



Now, having said that, I do agree with the spirit of the thread that it's way too early to flip out. Even if the Pats are 3-3 or 3-4 based on our tough schedule, I think we'll be fine.

However, to deny that the offense is currently too predictably pass-happy, or the defense is too soft / non-aggressive, is to be beyond high on the Kool Aid.

It's not all on BB either. The guy gives tons of autonomy on his coordinators.

 

[Deus Irae]

12-4 is an average Brady year.
So, he gives us an extra win?

16-0 against (if I recall correctly) the toughest schedule in the NFL to 11-5 against one of the very easiest schedules, only 2-4 against playoff teams. That's the difference. However, even using your 'average' argument, 12-4 would have gotten the team into the playoffs.

While I can agree with most of your post, I figure what's the point of worrying? I'm maybe 1 or 2% worried that Brady won't round into shape. I'm very confident that he'll get back soon.

Plus, the old Brady always had a few games each year just like Sunday's, in losses to the Steelers, Broncos, Dolphins, etc.

"The new Brady" has already had 2 of those games. As for why worry, I guess it depends on how you mean worry. If this team doesn't play better the next 2 weeks than it has the first two, the Patriots will be 1-3. How much you want to worry likely depends upon how you feel about that potential situation. Personally, I'm not worried about the team. Analyzing the games and noting that the team isn't getting the job done is not the same as panicking and forecasting that the team cannot, or will not, improve and get the job done long term.

 

[Ring 6]

Except that I quoted each and every response I made to you in that thread in an omnibus response and proved this argument of yours wrong. Nice try, though.

You can quote whatever you want, but I disagreed with one statement in your post, and none of the responses you quoted had anything to do with that. If I recall your 'proof' that our DL was 'stoned' by their OL was Ty Warren saying it was a tight game, or something to that effect. Then yur later responses said "I guess you should tell Ty Warren he is wrong".
It is exactly that type of childish crap that I wish to avoid by ignoring the overreacters.
I'm sure in your mind that posting all of the responses 'proved' something, but when my discussion was solely about that comment about the Buffalo OL and our DL, you can quote anything you want but if it doesnt apply to that statement you are jst dodging the real point.

 

[Ring 6]

16-0 against (if I recall correctly) the toughest schedule in the NFL to 11-5 against one of the very easiest schedules, only 2-4 against playoff teams. That's the difference. However, even using your 'average' argument, 12-4 would have gotten the team into the playoffs.



"The new Brady" has already had 2 of those games. As for why worry, I guess it depends on how you mean worry. If this team doesn't play better the next 2 weeks than it has the first two, the Patriots will be 1-3. How much you want to worry likely depends upon how you feel about that potential situation. Personally, I'm not worried about the team. Analyzing the games and noting that the team isn't getting the job done is not the same as panicking and forecasting that the team cannot, or will not, improve and get the job done long term.

The purpose of this thread was just that. Panicking and forecasting doom is what I considered uncalled for, not assessment.

 

[Sivy]

Other fan bases are alot worse than this one after a loss.

I'm not that upset, the more I think about it, the more I think they didnt do that bad. Missed redzone tds are what killed the game, and for some reason, rare pats pen. (delay of game 2 times in a row) but the d held them to mostly feild goals and such, not to bad for a young goup missing their leader.
Plus welker was out so I'm not haning to much on the loss.

The only thing is, now fans of other teams will ONCE AGAIN be able to throw 18-1 in our faces.

 

[maverick4]

The only thing is, now fans of other teams will ONCE AGAIN be able to throw 18-1 in our faces.

I never understood their glee. So... somehow after the Video Witch Hunt, winning 18 games in a row, first 16-0 team ever, highest scoring offense ever, most passing TD's ever, is somehow an embarrassment?

It's the most odd pleasure for one loss, maybe ever by Pats haters. Belichick and Brady still made their point with that season, after the Video Witch Hunt.

 

[Deus Irae]

You can quote whatever you want, but I disagreed with one statement in your post, and none of the responses you quoted had anything to do with that. If I recall your 'proof' that our DL was 'stoned' by their OL was Ty Warren saying it was a tight game, or something to that effect. Then yur later responses said "I guess you should tell Ty Warren he is wrong".
It is exactly that type of childish crap that I wish to avoid by ignoring the overreacters.
I'm sure in your mind that posting all of the responses 'proved' something, but when my discussion was solely about that comment about the Buffalo OL and our DL, you can quote anything you want but if it doesnt apply to that statement you are jst dodging the real point.

No, Andy, this is not accurate. You took a phrase out of context. It wasn't even the complete sentence, and you removed the portion that was a qualifier, for crying out loud. You jumped on your homer horse, and went nuts over a non-issue. That's all you did. I didn't take the bait on that, and I kept on point. I showed that when I put everything in the same post. You can keep making your incorrect assertions about that thread until God ends the universe, but it's never going to make them true.

 

[Sivy]

I never understood their glee. So... somehow after the Video Witch Hunt, winning 18 games in a row, first 16-0 team ever, highest scoring offense ever, most passing TD's ever, is somehow an embarrassment?

It's the most odd pleasure for one loss, maybe ever by Pats haters. Belichick and Brady still made their point with that season, after the Video Witch Hunt.

word....but you know i said that because I was saying they are going to win the next 18 games right?

 

[JMarr]

Here's what I take comfort in: When the team itself wins or loses, there's and entire world of media, fans, experts which swirls around them wildly gyrating with every w or l, every single week.

The foundation of these Pats, the very bedrock which has been there for years even as a lot of personnel has changed, is that they are back to work improving and not listening to a single word of it. That's the only thing that will matter as the season rolls on.

nice post. And you're right--if the bedrock is Belichick/Brady/Kraft, then yes we're still more than good. But man, there have been ALOT of changes to most of the other components. I'm not panicking but, as many others have said, it's going to take time for things to come together.

And it gives me no comfort at all that we've been w/o key players already. As BB would say, injuries are part of the game and you have to adapt. Indy's without Bob Sanders, Pittsburgh is w/o Polamalu. If our plan this year was to rely on Mayo to be the kind of player on defense that these guys are, then it simply was a bad plan.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I don't see too many people 'bashing' Brady. Plenty have said that he had a poor game Sunday, and he did. We were outplayed, outcoached, etc etc there's no way to sugar coat it.