Breaking Down The LB Corps

[BionicPatriot]

Some people will never be happy. I mean, if the guy helps us win the super bowl, was it not worth the picks? If any team can live without those, it's us with 3 2nd rounders. I'd take Burgess and a super bowl anyday (if he helps) over those picks honestly.

People ***** all offseason to get a pass rusher, now the question is did we pay too much? Give me a break. Team realize this isn't a team with a young QB with 10+ years ahead, we have about a 5 year period left probably before changes occur. Everyone knew the Patriots NEEDED somebody. And if he contributes the way we need him too, it will be another feather in belichick's hat.

Only in NE would people now question if we over paid. Give me a friggin break it's a third rounder.

 

[mayoclinic]

Some people will never be happy. I mean, if the guy helps us win the super bowl, was it not worth the picks? If any team can live without those, it's us with 3 2nd rounders. I'd take Burgess and a super bowl anyday (if he helps) over those picks honestly.

People ***** all offseason to get a pass rusher, now the question is did we pay too much? Give me a break. Team realize this isn't a team with a young QB with 10+ years ahead, we have about a 5 year period left probably before changes occur. Everyone knew the Patriots NEEDED somebody. And if he contributes the way we need him too, it will be another feather in belichick's hat.

Only in NE would people now question if we over paid. Give me a friggin break it's a third rounder.

:agree::agree: Thank you.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I was satisfied with the LB situation as it was, even if not exactly spectacular.

But much of the LB discussion is misdirected, IMHO.

If you look at the 2008 Defense statistic and eliminate the misleading red zone fluke statistics the real key to the Pats Defense is clear. The Pats were a Top Ten Defense. The lowest statistic attributable to the front seven was the 15th in the League rating, against the Run.

Belichick penetrated to the heart of the issue, and spent a second round draft pick, on Ron Brace to give Wilfork a legitimate NT relief to keep him fresh. No longer playing rookie ILBs will also certainly help. They are sophomores now.

The Pats had devastating injuries to its its SS/LB hybrids. They lost Tank in the preseason after spending a considerable amount of time with him, as an over-the-middle short coverage SS/LB. Then Rodney went down too.

Once again, Belichick penetrated to the issue. He spent his first pick in the draft on a SS/rover-back, who has played as a passing down LB, in Pat Chung. Now he has both Tank & Pat.

The improvement in the Run Defense will also transform the Pass Defense too. Instead of 3rd and 2 or 3, allowing a choice of pass or run, the opposition will more likely be facing 3rd and 5 or 6. These are obvious passing downs, and much less fearful about replacing a real LB with a SS/LB hybrid.

Lack of sacks is a partially misleading statistic. Seldom do sacks come on short yardage pass attempts. You need to force longer routes, to allow the pass rushers time to pass rush. You have to close off the short completion void, to have half a chance. And of course the Pass Rush produced only 31 sacks, better than more than half the teams in the League, and only 9 sacks from a good to great rating.

Belichick is a true Sherlock Holmes diagnosing the REAL problem.

Sorry to hijack the back-and-forth economic discussion, but I thought I'd take a moment to thank AZ for this fine analysis. I haven't looked at the stats, but I definitely felt a frustration last season with the number of 3rd and 3 quick hit pass play conversions. The weakness against the run that stood out to me was over the defensive right side, where a weakened and/or rested Seymour was paired up with Woods much of the season. Woods could set the edge well enough, but he had a hell of a time shedding blocks and making tackles, so the runner reached the secondary readily - picking up 4 or 5 yards. Obviously, their trouble against the run extended farther than that, but another year of experience for Woods and a healthy Big Sey will go a long way toward making this defense stouter against the run, allowing Burgess to pin back his ears and chase the QB on 3rd down. Burgess won't be the answer, but he might look like it, if they can toughen up against the run some.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I disagree. The value of having him here through camp outweighs the possiblity of reducing the trade cost. The player helps us, the fact that we traded a 3 and 5 and didnt get an all pro best in the league kind of player means what exactly?

If BB followed your plan Burgess would probably be in Philly and we would still have those picks. Would you prefer that?

Absolutely, especially with Bradley out with an ACL, Philly was in need of a LB, even if not an MLB and likely might have outbid the Pats. The way BB accumulates and swaps draft picks, they're likely to have them back (picks in rounds 4,5) by the end of training camp. More so this year, with a deeper talent level, if a guy isn't traded before being cut, he's likely to end up in Denver,KC or Cleveland...

 

[BTTA]

This team gave away Vrabel and Cassel for just a second

You are missing the most important part of that trade in your assessment. The Pats traded Cassel and Vrabel for a second AND $16M of KC's cap space. The cap space is worth more than Cassel, Vrabel, and the second round pick combined, given that it enables the team to add five or six other players, or keep some of their other highly valuable players, or some combination of the two.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Sorry to hijack the back-and-forth economic discussion, but I thought I'd take a moment to thank AZ for this fine analysis. I haven't looked at the stats, but I definitely felt a frustration last season with the number of 3rd and 3 quick hit pass play conversions. The weakness against the run that stood out to me was over the defensive right side, where a weakened and/or rested Seymour was paired up with Woods much of the season. Woods could set the edge well enough, but he had a hell of a time shedding blocks and making tackles, so the runner reached the secondary readily - picking up 4 or 5 yards. Obviously, their trouble against the run extended farther than that, but another year of experience for Woods and a healthy Big Sey will go a long way toward making this defense stouter against the run, allowing Burgess to pin back his ears and chase the QB on 3rd down. Burgess won't be the answer, but he might look like it, if they can toughen up against the run some.

I think you're a bit confused:
-- Adalius started 9 games at ROLB.
-- Woods started 3.
-- Guyton filled in sfter Woods was IR'd, until Colvin was re-signed.
-- Seymour was healthy last season, as demonstrated by 8 sacks.
-- Warren was the guy playing with two torn groin muscles.
-- Vrabel denied a shoulder injury, but watching the TV broadcast in slow motion you can see he had no strength with his right arm.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think you're a bit confused:
-- Adalius started 9 games at ROLB.
-- Woods started 3.
-- Guyton filled in sfter Woods was IR'd, until Colvin was re-signed.
-- Seymour was healthy last season, as demonstrated by 8 sacks.
-- Warren was the guy playing with two torn groin muscles.
-- Vrabel denied a shoulder injury, but watching the TV broadcast in slow motion you can see he had no strength with his right arm.

I can't remember which, but one of the WEEI gentlemen mentioned Vrabel's shoulder yesterday and said it was definitely a problem. Vrabel has denied any such problem, but he's steeped in Patriots-think, so that comes as no surprise. If he suffered a double amputation he'd probably deny he'd been injured.

 

[captain stone]

"It's merely a flesh wound."

A question to AJ & the others who have no problem At All with trading a 3rd & (hopefully) a 5th for the 2009 Derrick Burgess - not the 2005 or even '06 Burgess:
At what point would Weird Uncle Al's asking price have been too high?

 

[Deus Irae]

"It's merely a flesh wound."

A question to AJ & the others who have no problem At All with trading a 3rd & (hopefully) a 5th for the 2009 Derrick Burgess - not the 2005 or even '06 Burgess:
At what point would Weird Uncle Al's asking price have been too high?

7 first rounders and Brady

 

[DocE]

There was at least one report suggesting the Eagles were offering a 3rd and a player for Burgess. If that report was true, the Patriots had to give up what they did, and had to do it quickly. It would be pretty silly to wait, and hope the price goes down, so you don't have to pay the 5th rounder in addition to the 3rd. Is a 5th round pick LIKELY to make the Patriots roster next year?

Back to the original topic, I think the Patriots are thin at ILB with reports that Lenon has not looked so good. Mayo/Bruschi/Guyton is fine, but with Bruschi up in age, I think we need that 4th ILB to be a better player than in a "normal" year. Lenon and Alexander (even though he's playing some OLB now) seem like the best bets currently on the roster.

OLB is interestng too. With the addition of Burgess, can the Patriots keep both Banta-Cain and Crable? It would seem, at least on the surface, that all 3 OLB's are more pass rushers than run defenders who can set the edge.

 

[captain stone]

ILB is indeed waffer-thin, if the reports about Lenon are true. As of now, there are no ILBs who could be considered 2-down "stout" ILBs. Mayo is the best of the bunch, and AT could move inside in some situations, as long as Burgess, Woods, TBC & Crable are holding their own on the outside. I had hoped that the FO would sign ILB Andra Davis before Denver did; he could've been here what Victor Hobson was supposed to be here, though I still feel that he was released prematurely.

Oh, and there's always Junior.