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Brazil Becoming a Player

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by wistahpatsfan, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Honduras' leaders push back after Brazilian Embassy snub - CNN.com

    Brazil on Sunday rejected an ultimatum from Honduras' de facto government to decide the status of ousted President Jose Manuel Zelaya, who has been holed up in the South American country's embassy in Honduras since last week.

    In turn, the de facto government of Roberto Micheletti refused to acknowledge the embassy as Brazilian soil, deeming it a "private office."

    "It was Brazil who broke relations with the current government, when they refused to recognize it," said interim government Foreign Minister Carlos Lopez. "So we are just doing the same with them."


    This little military coup might provide Brazil some room to flex its international muscles in plkace of American intervention in the Honduran affair. It would be interesting, and a relief, IMO, if the US had some help from a heavy hitter like Brazil in resolving the clashes between tinpot jag-offs. We've got a full plate already without playing referee to these little squabbles and Brazil seems like it would be more than willing to step up.

    Brazil has the 8th most powerful military in the world. World Military Strength Ranking

    What do you think about sharing the police work of the Western Hemisphere with someone like Brazil? Do they have the clout to at least take these small issues off our hands and are we willing to let them assert themselves?
  2. Real World

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    Share? Why even get involved in the first place? It's a Honduran issue, and nobody else's problem. Let that country, it's people, politicians, and supreme court, deal with their problem on their own.
  3. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    1 I hope they do.

    2 I'm more than willing.
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree, we have too many people deployed on too many fronts, all of which costs too much money.. let them figure it out.
  5. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Well, it becomes Brazil's problem when the ousted President is holed up in the Brazilian embassy and the Honduran junta threatens to violate the Brazilian embassy's neutral status.

    I never said it was our problem. Our responsibility depends on whether we believe in the Monroe Doctrine, the Roosevelt Corollary, or the Clark Memorandum, which have all been used at different times to justify US intervention in the Americas as we see fit. I disagree with all of them, of course, but our govt has a long history of using that philosophy to remain active militarily in South and Central America.
  6. Real World

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    First off, I don't care what Brazil does. I was refering to your question about what the US should do. I say we should let the Hondurans deal with their own issue. Brazilians can figure out what they want their country's gubmit to do. Of course, I'm curious why they let him in the embassy to begin with. If they let him in there, then they knowingly interjected themselves in another nations affairs. That doesn't seem all that neutral to me.
  7. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    They have the clout, if anyone has the clout it is the Brazilians. They also have the right to do it as it is no different than Honduras invading Brazil itself since every embassy is considered sovereign soil of the country represented.

    US is obligated to defend both countries in war but has stayed out of conflicts between allies before, last time was the Faulkland Island war which caused the downfall of the Rio Pact.
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    It's recognized as international protocol that foreign embassies are sovereign soil of the country that possesses it. To refute that is commonly considered an act of war, I think.
  9. Real World

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    That's all fine and dandy, as I totally understand that. My point is simply that we shouldn't get involved, and niether should Brazil, as it's a Honduran matter. I try to picture what we would do in a similar circumstance. Be it Obama, or Bush as president, with the same exact scenario playing out. How would we feel if other countries tried to tell us what to do, and worse, stashed said exhiled president in their embassy? I think I'd be upset, of course, I guess that would depend on which clown I voted for. Regardless though, from a hypothetical view, I'd just prefer nations leave it to the people to decide. Again though, that's just my opinion.
  10. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    The US was out of it entirely, only tangible thing they have done is to get Honduras supsended from the OAS...next step is economic sanctions via the UN which would harm the people more than the people in power. It's Brazil vs. Honduras with Brazil not afraid to take the offensive(upped their military recently to do such a thing).

    Zalaya knew what he was doing in seeking out Brazil over any other country: it is an "untested" yet huge powerhouse internationally that has the will now to protect the country no matter where and is the most neutral of the major powerhouses in the region.

    Honduras is already in violation of international protocol by cutting off the water, power, and telephone lines to the embassy. Any support from the international community will be next to nothing considering that nobody in the international community recognizes the current de facto government in Honduras.
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    I'm betting Brazil goes apesh!t very soon on Honduras' arse. We will see them landing troops within two weeks. Just a hunch. And withing a week of that, fascist elements in the US will be demanding Obama halt Brazilian agression in Central America. We will have Glenn Beck comparing Brazil to Nazi Germany and O'Riely saying. "...and if you don't think Brazil is dangerous to America, well...they are! They just are!"
  12. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    Brazil has sexy ladies. That's my contribution to this thread.
  13. Real World

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    My question would be, how are they neutral when they let the exhiled president sneak into their embassy? If that's not meddling in a foreign nations affairs, then nothing is. I think countries should simply let the Hondurans deal with their internal issues. This is a political problem in Honduras. It's not as if Honduras is bombing Nicaragua, or performing genocide against it's civilians. I'd just let them figure it out themselves.
  14. Real World

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    I'm confused by your comment here. Fascist elements will what?
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2009
  15. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Compared with the regional powerhouses of Venezuela and the USA they are neutral. And they knew he was going to go to them at some point, he was in the country earlier so something had to have happened there to gauge their possible action if he sought their embassy out after his return.

    This isn't them meddling, he sought out their aid. The fact that it is an internal struggle is irrelevant, international protocol has them allowing him entry to the embassy as the duly recognized head of state for Honduras. Seeking political asylum from them is also within protocol, as is Brazil deciding to allow him asylum, it doesn't matter what is going on with the country they have a right internationally to hear him out and keep him safe inside their sovereign territory.

    You are missing the point, they can not do what they are doing to the Brazilian embassy no matter what is going on in Honduras- it is going to provoke Brazil to defend their sovereign territory in retaliation.
  16. Real World

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    Sorry dude, but you're missing the point. I don't need a lecture on what international protocol is for a foreign embassy. I know what it is, and I don't care, as I haven't spoken to what Honduras is doing to Brazils. My point is restricted to the fact that the Brazilians are being anything but neutral, when they allow the deposed leader of Honduras to sneak into their embassy in Honduras. To me, they are clearly injecting themselves into Honduras' affairs, which makes them anything but neurtral. Forget comparing them to the history of other countries, cuz that history is meaningless here. Foreign nations should stay out of this I think. The people, politicians, and supreme court of Honduras should be given every opportunity to solve their own problems. When they start killing innocent civilians, or invade a neighboring country, then it's an international problem. I'd just ask everyone to consider a similar situation in this country, and how we would feel. I wouldn't want foreign nations telling us how we should solve Florida 2000 for example. This is a Honduran problem, and no one elses.
  17. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    No, I actually got the point.

    Apparently you do as you failed to see the violations of it being done.

    Then you missed the whole point about this thread as it was discussing what what going on there and the possible results.

    He never snuck in, he was allowed to enter as the RECOGNIZED HEAD OF STATE.

    The current government in Honduras is NOT RECOGNIZED. Zelaya was allowed to enter as customary for ALL heads of state internationally under protocol.

    You missed the whole point, when compared with the two polarizing countries of the USA and Venezuela he went to the third powerhouse, the one in the middle in Brazil. In the region Brazil is the most neutral compared to the other two. THAT IS WHAT IS MEANT. Every other country in the area has already thrown their support behind Zelaya, NOBODY is neutral there. However when choosing between the three, the one in the middle(being called "neutral") is Brazil.

    Get it now or are you still insisting that them doing anything is not neutral?

    Not when their embassy is under siege. They have every right to retaliate to ensure their embassy's protection. There is no ifs, ands, or buts- it is an internationally recognized right to act, a justified act of self defense for their own territory.

    They were doing that which is why they weren't subjected to anything lasting beyond suspension from the OAS yet- until they laid siege to the Brazilian embassy.

    It already became one when they laid siege to the embassy. It no longer was just internal, it was international and if they enter it will be an act of war.

    Already happened to the US before, 1979 in Iran. Similar situation regarding government overthrown and an embassy being invaded by the country. Difference between the two: US didn't go to war, Brazil may if they storm the embassy.

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