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Brandon Spikes>Gary Guyton

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by R_T26, Dec 20, 2010.

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  1. R_T26

    R_T26 Banned

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    Yes Guyton makes big plays once in a while, but Spikes holds down the run d, plus like Pro Football Focus says... Doesnt miss a tackle. Guyton on the other hand takes bad angles and misses plenty of tackles.

    Teams best with guyton only
    On passing downs.
  2. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

  3. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    You mean a 2nd round pick could possibly be better than an undrafted free agent?

    Naaahhhhhh......
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
  4. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is only Earth shattering to those people who kept trying to insist that Guyton was still good against the run even after we drafted an ILB to improve the run defense. The sooner Spikes and Brace come back healthy and ready to play, the better it will be for our run defense.
  5. crowell33

    crowell33 Rookie

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    Sex tapes and illegal drugs aside, Guyton has 2 touchdowns this season and can be relied upon in the nickel package.
  6. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That's because Guyton is the better coverage ILB of the two. The conversation, meanwhile, is about who is the better of the two when it comes to defending the run. Hope that helps. :)
  7. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    I thought Guyton was the new Roman Phifer.
  8. crowell33

    crowell33 Rookie

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    Thats actually not a bad comparison. He's never gonna be the man, but he will contribute.
  9. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Sure Spikes is a better all around player than Guyton. Football seems to come a little more naturaly to him. But don't underestimate Guytons value to this team. Not many teams can boast a veteran backup who can fill in like GG. He had a hell of a game last week that shouldn't be discounted but struggled against the run today. But he did play.

    So what is the point? To make a thread that one player is better than the other? To discredit someone who wasn't stupid enough to take a banned substance that left the team without his services for the last 4 games of the season?
  10. crowell33

    crowell33 Rookie

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    Agreed. If there is no illegal drugs or sex tapes, Spikes is the far superior run stopper. However, Guyton is superior in coverage and comes without the baggage.
  11. Dagg

    Dagg Rookie

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    We definatley missed Spikes and half our DL in the run game. I mean GB has a horrid run game and they were moving it well against us on the ground all night.
  12. satz

    satz Rookie

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    I can argue the opposite. You know why guyton has picks and pass defended because he can drop futher and faster than spikes can every dream of doing. He has is 6 5 and has a tremendous wing span in drops.He run with any 3rd RB step for step which spikes cannot do. Even against the run he is not great but if you give him a little DL help he will succeed.

    Yesterday spikes would not have done any thing major than let the greenbay TEs run free due not being able to cover them.

    The Issue was we had 4 DL and deadrick got injured. With 3 DL with no rotation the run defence is going to struggle.

    we used to have enough depth to change between 3-4 to 4-3 with different personal now we barely have a 3-4 line .untill brace , pyor ,wright comeback this will be a tough for any ILB.we where so depleted that we had guyton,mayo and fletcher in as we have only 2 DL on some plays.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
  13. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Spikes and Guyton make a terrific combo with complimentary strengths. Right now Guyton's being asked to play both of their roles, so naturally

    Spikes+Guyton>>Guyton alone.

    Add in the fact that the DL was so badly depleted last night (and the fact that the Packers have a massive ball-carrying FB) and you have a nightmare scenario for Guyton.
  14. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    I hope it's generally recognized that having an ILB who is a great run stopper and an ILB that is great in coverage is like..well..an advantage.

    Sorta like building a team not collecting talent.

    Your team wins a game against a high quality opponent many selected to go to the Super Bowl and it's a whinefest.

    I watched the Detroit/Green Bay game last week and the reality is the Packers moved the ball better with Flynn vs Rogers so don't minimize the effort.
  15. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    LOL thats funny
  16. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    Sometimes, words can't explain.
  17. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Guyton is inconsistent. One week he's flying all over the field making big plays, and the next he's taking bad angles and missing tackles. You can't rely on Guyton, but you can sure as hell make good use of him.
  18. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That's why it will be nice to get Spikes back so we can make good use of Guyton on third downs.
  19. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Pretty accurate assessment, upstater1. I feel the same way about him.

    Guyton plays a ton and has made some big plays this year.

    But what Spikes brings to the defense is equally important- a downhill hammer that makes 7 yd running plays only 3. That was painfully evident last night.
  20. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    PFF, as usual, is wrong. Spikes misses plenty of tackles. In fact, if there is one area of the game he needs to shore up, its tackling - he gets himself in position an awful lot. What Spikes does is meet blockers closer to the LOS - and make life for Mayo easier.

    Guyton is not nearly as stout vs the run, no, but he also takes more flack then he deserves. We have a bit of a patch-work DL right now, so it's hard to judge the LBs in the run game without that in mind. Guyton is a valuable player for us.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
  21. 40yrpatsfan

    40yrpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Guyton has many good qualities, but he's not a good open field tackler. Usually approaches the runner too hard, setting himself up to get deked. Especially when the runner needs to get 5 more yards or more for the 1st - he's just constantly blowing those types of tackles, instead of being patient and keeping the guy in front of him. Not a smart player sometimes.
  22. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    A little overly-critical of Spikes, IMO. BB has commented that his approach is a bit unorthodox but the results are nonetheless still very good. Like any rookie, he needs to improve a ton, but I would not say that he is a poor tackler. If he was, he wouldn't be playing on 1st down or obvious running situations.
  23. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    Not really.

    It's called balance.

    The Packers are way too dependent on Rogers. That's not to say he isn't an excellent QB or Flynn would be better. It's saying you still have to try to run and it happens that try met an ideal situation.
  24. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    It's not just a question of Spikes versus Guyton. A huge factor in why the defense is so much better against the run with Spikes is that he allows Mayo to play in a position that optimizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses. I'd say his beasting against the run is further reflected in his superhuman tackle numbers this season.
  25. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    I didn't say Spikes was a poor tackler - just saying the notion that he "never misses a tackle" is just not true. Jerod Mayo never misses a tackle. I've seen a share of plays this year where Spikes gets in position and then fails to convert. The good news is that he's slowed the runner down and normally the tackle is made by a teammate soon after.

    I love Spikes - I think he's one of the biggest additions to this team that we have made. And he does make this run defense very different in that he meets blockers near the LOS, ties them up and lets Mayo have more room to work in.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
  26. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    My bad. Misread your sentiment. He does miss tackles no question.
  27. JFK

    JFK Rookie

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    Guyton is an overall better LB. Wasn't Spikes playing when Hillis ran wild? Kuhn is no joke.
  28. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Bill Bellichick disagrees. Thats why Guyton was playing 4 times as many snaps as Spikes while they were both healthy.
  29. The_Natural_83

    The_Natural_83 Rookie

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    Kuhn is not in the same boat as Hillis, he's an average goal line rb. Also, if Grant wasn't hurt, Kuhn would barely touch the ball. The whole defense wasn't playing well vs Cleveland, not just Spikes. Even though Spikes is only a rookie I would take his instincts and leadership over Guyton. Spikes didn't have a good combine but he has shown a knack to make plays in the passing game too (Jets game.)
  30. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Then why was Guyton playing 80% of the snaps to Spikes 20% before Spikes got suspended?

    Guyton is a better LB. That may not be true in the future, but it most certainly is right now.


    I know people love to hate on "Good but not Great" players around here, but Spikes isn't even good yet. Guyton is.
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