PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Brandon Lloyd


Status
Not open for further replies.
As neither are in this draft, they're not that relevant. As fans we really need to stop judging future drafts by what happened in past ones.
The issue with the New England Patriots offense in the first half of the 49ers game was not the wide receivers but the offensive line's ability to either run block or pass block.
 
The issue with the New England Patriots offense in the first half of the 49ers game was not the wide receivers but the offensive line's ability to either run block or pass block.

I agree. Why do you think I have Jonathan Cooper as one of my favourite prospects to draft. I think the OL and WR are our two biggest needs this year.
 
I agree. Why do you think I have Jonathan Cooper as one of my favourite prospects to draft. I think the OL and WR are our two biggest needs this year.
Safety is a higher priority than wide receiver since the safety position has been a revolving door all season:

McCourty
Gregory
Chung
Wilson

As for the offense, offensive tackle may become the highest priority if the New England Patriots do not re-sign Sebastian Vollmer.
 
Safety is a higher priority than wide receiver since the safety position has been a revolving door all season:

McCourty
Gregory
Chung
Wilson

As for the offense, offensive tackle may become the highest priority if the New England Patriots do not re-sign Sebastian Vollmer.

Does adding a safety put us in a position to win a game? The Patriots win with offense, not defense. It's vital to our continued success that the offense is kept as good as possible which is why I prioritise that side of the ball.
 
Doesn't mean teams need all three to perform equally to win.
Against the 49ers, the New England Patriots defense allowed 5 passes over 20 yards including all 4 touchdown passes.

Meanwhile, Steve Gregory was benched in the second half of the 49ers game and replaced by Patrick Chung.
 
Against the 49ers, the New England Patriots defense allowed 5 passes over 20 yards including all 4 touchdown passes.

Meanwhile, Steve Gregory was benched in the second half of the 49ers game and replaced by Patrick Chung.

And yet Gregory had been ever present during our winning run. It wasn't Gregory that was the difference between those games and this one, it was our offense only scored 3 points in the first half and kept on giving SF a short field.

I have no problem with drafting good quality defensive players, it needs to be improved but for some reason Patriots fans obsess about our defense when our success lives or dies with how good our offense is.

Anyways, that's just the way I see it.
 
I have no problem with drafting good quality defensive players, it needs to be improved but for some reason Patriots fans obsess about our defense when our success lives or dies with how good our offense is.
Or your obsession drafting offensive players since the New England Patriots already have the number one offense in the NFL:

Points per game
Total Yards per game
First Downs per game
 
Or your obsession drafting offensive players since the New England Patriots already have the number one offense in the NFL:

Points per game
Total Yards per game
First Downs per game

Fine. If you can promise me they can replicate that next year and the year after with two 30+ OG's and Welker, Edelman, Vollmer out of contract then I'll promise to obsess about defense with the the rest of you. Can you promise that?
 
Fine. If you can promise me they can replicate that next year and the year after with two 30+ OG's and Welker, Edelman, Vollmer out of contract then I'll promise to obsess about defense with the the rest of you. Can you promise that?
Three straight years of 500+ points scored for the New England Patriots.

By the way, add to defensive tackle to the list of higher priority than wide receiver:

Stats glance: Quantifying Wilfork's impact - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston
 
Louis Nix, DT - Notre Dame

Pure Animal!

Yup. But his HC is saying that he's returning next year. But yes, right now I'd rank him ahead of any WR in CFB save possibly Marquise Lee.
 
A few things:

  • The 2006 season really only proved you cannot go into the playoffs with a bunch of #3 and #4 WRs and no legitimate primary WR. Gaffney hasn't hit and even at his best, he was a #2 WR. Caldwell was a #3 WR forced to be a #1 WR. Brown was a shell of his former self. The Pats offense that year wasn't hurting because they lacked a deep threat. They were missing a single receiver that Brady could rely on throwing to on a big third down. If Brown was two years younger or Welker was picked up a year earlier, I think the Pats may have won the Super Bowl that year without deep threat.
  • Most of the guys from 2006 didn't make the roster in 2007 because they weren't good enough. Caldwell, according to Troy Brown, was lazy and didn't work hard at anything. Gabriel was a mess. Everyone else was worse than them other than Gaffney.
  • Stallworth lasted here one year and one game. In 2007, he slid down the depth chart and ended up being the #4 WR by the end of the year.
  • Belichick brought Moss in here because he was a HOF quality WR who was an elite talent that he got for nothing. Him being a deep threat was secondary. He was just a guy that teams had to gameplan their entire defensive strategy around. In that way, he isn't much different than Gronk.
  • Since Moss left in 2010, Belichick has totally moved away from a deep threat WR to more of a TE, possession WR offense. If Belichick agreed with you that a deep threat is that important, why has he gone three years without a legitimate deep threat and most of the receivers he has brought in are more outside than deep threats (Ochocinco last year, Lloyd, Gaffney again, Branch)?

I would submit that by brining in not one, but two deep threat WRs, Belichick would respectfully disagree with you that the lack of a deep threat WR wasn't a problem.

No doubt Belichick was hoping to have Branch play in 2006, but Branch was never really a deep threat (he sure isn't today)

As far as Belichick "moving" to a multiple TE system, Belichick has ALWAYS sought a multiple TE system - it wasn't until we got Gronk and Hernandez that he truly had the personnel to do what he wanted, but Belichick also knows that without a deep threat, defenses will collapse on his TEs - not to mention his short pass options and RBs, as well as put more pressure on his QB

Deep passes will never be the majority of throws - they are too high risk. But you need enough of them - a credible threat - to keep defenses honest to be able to make the small critical "must make"' plays.

I think Belichick knows those plays don't make a big difference in Fantasy Football stats - just in the final W-L stats.

As far as Stallworth, some try to make it sound like he was a failure here. Although he was not well utilized towards the end of the season (which I still view as a strategic mistake in an offense that focused almost solely on Moss and Welker - making those "must get" first downs more difficult in an offensive scheme that fooled nobody) it was Stallworth's $6 million contract in year two, and the clear emergency of Randy Moss as the better deep threat that made his cutting all but inevitable.
 
Last edited:
I would submit that by brining in not one, but two deep threat WRs, Belichick would respectfully disagree with you that the lack of a deep threat WR wasn't a problem.

No doubt Belichick was hoping to have Branch play in 2006, but Branch was never really a deep threat (he sure isn't today)

As far as Belichick "moving" to a multiple TE system, Belichick has ALWAYS sought a multiple TE system - it wasn't until we got Gronk and Hernandez that he truly had the personnel to do what he wanted, but Belichick also knows that without a deep threat, defenses will collapse on his TEs - not to mention his short pass options and RBs, as well as put more pressure on his QB

Deep passes will never be the majority of throws - they are too high risk. But you need enough of them - a credible threat - to keep defenses honest to be able to make the small critical "must make"' plays.

I think Belichick knows those plays don't make a big difference in Fantasy Football stats - just in the final W-L stats.

As far as Stallworth, some try to make it sound like he was a failure here. Although he was not well utilized towards the end of the season (which I still view as a strategic mistake in an offense that focused almost solely on Moss and Welker - making those "must get" first downs more difficult in an offensive scheme that fooled nobody) it was Stallworth's $6 million contract in year two, and the clear emergency of Randy Moss as the better deep threat that made his cutting all but inevitable.

In 2007 Belichick may have disagreed with me a bit more than today, but not in 2012. Different year, different rules. When safeties could hit over the middle, the deep threat was more needed to bring pressure off the center of the field. Now it isn't. I still think he grabbed Moss because he was an elite WR for a 4th rounder.

As for his move to more of a TE focused passing offense, it absolutely has to do with the rules. Yes, he has alway preferred the two TE offense, but the rules changes have played into that favoritism. His two TE offense never made the TE the focal point of the offense like they do with Gronk and Hernandez.

All you have to do is look around the league and a lot of the biggest receiving stars are TEs (Gronk, Hernandez, Graham, Davis) or slot receivers (Welker, Cruz, Harvin, etc.). That is because the lack of contact is allowing the center of the field to be more open and teams are moving to more spread and horizontal passing than vertical passing. Again, making the deep threat less and less important.

Stallworth was a disappointment here. As the year went on he was demoted from #3 WR to #4 WR. I have read that he may have had problems grasping the playbook. Yes, his bonus was a part of the reason they didn't keep him, but if they truly wanted him back they would have tried to give him a long term deal to replace the contract. They didn't.

Besides, the Patriots never even tried to replace Stallworth with another deep threat. Tate and Price were never deep threat WRs although he would occasionally use them. Ochocinco even before they lost faith in him was rarely if ever used on deep routes. Lloyd probably ran more deep routes last night than the entire season combined. The Pats' deep threat receiver by design is Gronk.

I will conceed that in 2007 the need for a deep threat was far more necessary that today. I still it was overrated, but with the new rules for contact of receivers it makes the deep threat very much overrated unless you get an elite deep threat. Stretching the field may have been more important when a guy like Welker could get clocked every time he went over the middle. But defenders can't lay out receivers anymore changing the coverages. Less roaming the field head hunters. That is why teams are spreading defenses out and throwing more horizontally than vertically. Making an outside threat more important and a deep less so.
 
Last edited:
Opposing defenses have one more guy to plan for.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Back
Top