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Branch's Fines if he holds out till game 10

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by smg93, Aug 23, 2006.

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  1. smg93

    smg93 Rookie

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    As far as I can tell there were 27 practices (please correct the number if it's wrong) that DB has missed. At 14k per practice that comes out to $378,000. If he is slated to make about $1.045 million this year and we divide that by 16 games that comes to $65,312.50 per game. If he holds out till the tenth game, that means he would have been out for nine games which would total $587,812.50.

    $378,000 plus $587,812.50 equals $965,812.50. That means DB will be owed only $79,187.50 for the 7 games (10th -16th games) that he'll be active. Now that's a bargain! The $ per game goes even lower when you factor in post season play which I'm extremely confident that we'll be a part of again this season.

    Even with that, how many on this board would be willing to get a job that pays them 80k for seven weeks work? The Pats get a bargain from a salary standpoint for sure but in real world dollars, that's still a good chunk of change.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Going to be difficult to feed his family...
  3. aabtec

    aabtec Rookie

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    Once the games start he is no longer fined. He just forfeits the game checks..
  4. KY Pats Fan

    KY Pats Fan Rookie

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    I think BB and Pioli will suspend him. I don't think they will allow him to rejoin the team at week 10. I wouldn't.
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's what smg93's calculations were. His training camp fines would come close to equally what's left of his game checks if he sat out until week 10.
  6. Welker83

    Welker83 Rookie

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    Players are paid in the post-season by a fund. so IF the pats get to the play-offs he will be compensated for those post season games...

    Overall however...unless he gets a new deal he will be hurting in the wallet... until he goes unrestricted and signs with another team...
  7. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I was always under the impression that fines were not assessed per practice, or even only for days when they are expected to be with the team

    A player is expected to report by a certain date. Every day he fails to report after that he can be assessed a fine of up to $14,000 a day.

    It doesn't matter how many practices the team has - it doesn't matter if the players are given a monday off by the coaches - if the player has failed to report he can be fined $14 k a day

    By my math that means that as of day 75 of the holdout, Branch will have exhausted his 2006 salary, well in advance of week 10.

    But I'm not positive that's how it works.. I'm sure the details of the CBA would provide the answer
  8. lobster

    lobster Rookie

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    One rule is if Branch is on the active (53-man) roster for the first regular season game the Pat's are required to pay his salary, less any fines. The salary is pro-rated for each regular season game. Therefore the Pat's often go into the first regular season game with less than 53 on the active roster.

    Excluding reserve lists, a player not on the active roster for the first regular season game is paid only for the games when they were on the active roster.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  9. Digger44

    Digger44 Rookie

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    i have no problem with this. i say franchise him and if he sits out again, remove the franchise as late as possible while waiting for a trade.
  10. F0nSY

    F0nSY Rookie

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    I think that it is what there is to do. of how much could be the fine? $$
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  11. Urgent

    Urgent Rookie

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    But
    Is a player in this situation on the 53-man roster, or the Reserve/Failed to Report list (exact wording may be off slightly.)

    I'm not sure that a team has to hold a spot open for a player who is holding out.
  12. F0nSY

    F0nSY Rookie

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    He is a very important player in this equipment ;)
  13. smg93

    smg93 Rookie

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    I just read an article that says the fine is 14k per day. I'm still not sure if you get fined double if it's a two a day type situation. But let's say it was a daily fine no matter how many practices there were in a particular day, that would still come out to 21 days of training camp. 21 times 14k equals 298k.

    298k plus 587,812.50 equals 885,812.50. The pats would only have to pay DB $159,187.50 for the seven regular season games he plays. That's still a bargain.
  14. Garbanza

    Garbanza Rookie

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    The team CAN levy the fines. If Branch comes in - do you all really think he will be asked to pay the fine? C'mon. Kraft will make some donation to his favorite charity on Branch's behalf and everyone will be happy. Sure, Branch will pay for half his salary after sitting out for more? Get real.
  15. F0nSY

    F0nSY Rookie

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    I think, that Branch would have To be fined by the Pats
  16. lobster

    lobster Rookie

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    I edited my message for players who are on a Reserve-injured list. There are also special situation lists, like Reserve-military, which almost certainly require NFL approval.
  17. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    The reason you read that it's $14k per day is because it's $14k per day.

    I've never seen anything suggesting that it has anything to do with per practice, or per day of practice, or per pre-season game.

    Simple math - multiply $14k by the number of days since training camp opened and I believe you have your cumulative fine.

    If its more complicated than that its news to me.

    And frankly I have no idea why the Patriots would waste a spot on the Active Roster, guaranteeing his 2006 Salary for a guy who continues to hold out as of Game 1.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  18. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    I know what you're saying, of course I wouldn't be surprised if all fines were 'forgiven' if he reports tomorrow. But if he actually sits out until week 10, and the Pats plan on tagging him next year... then sure, why not asses the fines? I mean if you're going to make an example out of him (as they have been doing by taking the extension offers off the table for not reporting), then do it all the way.
  19. Garbanza

    Garbanza Rookie

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    If he reports, I'm of the belief that the fines will not be applied. Seems to be the consensus around teh Boston media - especially media members that were once players. My guess is that they know what really goes on far more than me or you.
  20. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IF he shows up before game 1, the fines will PROBABLY be waived.

    But if his holdout contunues beyone the first regular season game. I doubt if the fines will be waived. An example has to be made.

    I don't think any of the media, who were once players, have dealt with a situation like this. Also, they have not dealt with a guy like BB.
  21. Garbanza

    Garbanza Rookie

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    DeOssie and Smerlas have both played for BB - not as HC, however. Oh, and I am sure former players have seen their fair share of hold outs and what really goes on beyond the fans eyes and ears.
  22. lobster

    lobster Rookie

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    Branch should be made to pay the fines in full before the first regular season game, and then the Pat's would donate the money to charity in Branch's name. Perhaps they could have a little ceremony at half-time.
  23. SBPatsFan

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    Fines in the CBA are specified to accrue per day but after looking at the CBA and doing the math on what Galloway was fined for his holdout into November in 1999, it looks like fines are only for missed days during training camp/preseason. Once the season starts the mechanism appears to shift to forfitting game checks (though my interpretation of this might be incorrect and fines might continue into the season).

    If correct that means Branch could be fined up to max of $96,000 per week missed during training camp/ preseason only. So even if he holds out till game 11, fines might max out at the end of the 6 weeks of training camp/preseason. Pats would have option of fining him anywhere from $0 up to a maximum that would be a bit less than $600,000. And, according to profootballtalk.com, NFL fines come out of after tax dollars. When Profootballtalk.com has discussed holdouts in the past, the assumption is a tax rate of ~40% which means Branch would need to make ~1 million to pay fines of $600,000.

    Pats can also, according to CBA, withhold game checks and go after a pro-rated part of his signing bonus from the rookie contract if holdout lasts into the season. They can also impose smaller fines for missing mandatory off-season workouts. Again, the Pats don't have to do these things, but they are allowed to should they choose. Hope this helps.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  24. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, a food pantry so others can feed their families.
  25. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

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    Not really. At least for the 2000 thru 2005 seasons, here are the roster counts for the first season game:

    [​IMG]
  26. SBPatsFan

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    Lobster when I looked at the CBA it had a provision for how the fines are to be paid. They basically have to be divided and taken equally out of the remaining game checks.
  27. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

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    To follow up on what folks have said, the CBA section on fines for missing training camp:

    So it is a per day fine (14K or some such amount for 2006).

    It is a matter of considerable heartburn for me that legal contracts (and government laws for that matter) are so incredibly poor at defining terms or fully spelling out provisions. One result, of course, is an incredible amount of litigation or arbitration to fill in the blanks that could have so easily been spelled out.

    In line with that rant, I can find no definition in the CBA as to when 'training camp' ends. Does it end with the last 'training camp practice', which I think has been referred to for the Pats as last Tuesday (??) Or is it thru the last preseason game ?? Or whatever ?? So it may be a little difficult to pin down just how many days are subject to fines for Deion.
  28. DESERTPAT

    DESERTPAT Rookie

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  29. SBPatsFan

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    When I did a search for Galloway's holdout in 1999 (which according to CBA you posted the fine should have been $5000/day that year) I came upon the figure of $210,000 in fines. He held out till November. If my math is correct that means he was fined for 42 missed days. So my guess is that the language might cover the entire preseason. But that is just my guess trying to extrapolate from reported past fines.
  30. TaxPlaya

    TaxPlaya Rookie

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    As a "taxman" myself, this actually presents a good planning opportunity for Deion.

    Here is a guy who, in any normal year, would be a top-bracket taxpayer. As a result, all of the things available to us average Joes are not available to him--but they would be this year.

    A few examples:

    1. He could contribute $4000 to a Roth IRA.
    2. He could do a Roth conversion on any Traditional IRA money he had tied up.
    3. Assuming he makes his full $15,000 salary deferral to his 401(k) plan, he could deduct any student loan interest he might have.
    4. He could take a class and deduct up to $4000 for it.
    5. If he owns any rental properties, he could take a loss of up to $25,000.
    6. He could make a Coverdell ESA contribution for one of his kids he probably has floating around out there.
    7. He could tally up all of his bellyaching costs as "job-hunting" expenses and take a miscellaneous itemized deduction for the unreimbursed employee business expense. While he has to subtract out 2% of AGI, this year that will be <$1000.

    The possibilities are endless--these are just a few that I thought of.

    To see more of what the little turd could rack up, visit my website, www.taxplaya.com

    Pardon the plug, but it's for the good cause of bashing Deion "You'll Never Be Reggie Wayne" Branch
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