Branch's contract

[BlueTalon]

I think there's a good chance that the Seahawks will cut the player after this year unless the player can equal or exceed last year's fluke production.

If the player has a 40 catch season, the team is not going to fork over 9 million in new money to trigger year 2.

There are obviously many who would disagree with your characterization of that season as a fluke. Nevertheless, if he has 40 catches, a lot would depend on what he did with those catches. But unless he develops a serious attitude problem for the Seahawks, or turns into a talentless bust, he's not going to get cut after one year.


By the way, as you're doing your number crunching on Branch's contract, let me throw this into the mix. Massachusetts has a state income tax, Washington does not. With your 5.3% rate, Branch's contract will be worth about $2 million more in Seattle than it would be in New England.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The last time I checked the years 2006/2007/2008/2009/2010/2011 covered 6 years. Wayne's deal is a six-year $39 million contract. Branch's deal is a six-year $39 million contract.

Using your numbers

12,500,000
2,600,000
3,000,000
3,500,000
4,940,000
5,470,000
5,950,000
380,000
660,000

totals up to $39 million.

Math actually makes my head ache, but $9.1 isn't $15M either. If both of these guys were to suffer career ending injuries next week, one of them rides into the sunset with $5.9M more than the other And if they don't, the guy with the $15M already in the bank is a lot less likely to be cut or told to take a cut or seek employment elsewhere should be not quite equal nevermind surpass the production in his best season to date, by fluke or otherwise.

 

[Miguel]

Precisely my point. The signing bonus was part of his new contract. He'd already signed this one.

Just pointing out the unfairness of comparing other teams offers, (they'd tear up the contract), to ours.

Those teams aren't going to tear up the last year of all contracts favorable to them.

The Seahawk did have to give up a 1st round pick. I think that if they did not have to, they would probably been willing to give Branch even more money.

Signing bonus is for new contract, after old contract has expired.

FWIW - The CBA would have allowed the Patriots to use the 2006 year in the amortization of the signing bonus.

I know it's a technicality and maybe he gets the money now, but it's necessary to show the inferior bargaining position we were in if we treat him as if he was a free agent.

So spreading around the $4 million around 2007/2008/2009 even though Branch received the money in 2006 to boost the 2007/2008/2009 average is not misleading. But using the $4 million in 2006 to compare it to what Branch is going to get from the Seahawks is misleading. Maybe I just need to drink some more kool-aid

It is not a maybe. It is what it is.

 

[Miguel]

There are obviously many who would disagree with your characterization of that season as a fluke.

Two of them being BB and Pioli. There is no way that they would be offering Branch the money that they did if they thought that the 2005 season was a fluke.

But what do they know??? They just won 3 of the 5 past Super Bowls.

In BB we trust, except when it comes to changing Branch's talent.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Two of them being BB and Pioli. There is no way that they would be offering Branch the money that they did if they thought that the 2005 season was a fluke.

But what do they know??? They just won 3 of the 5 past Super Bowls.

In BB we trust, except when it comes to changing Branch's talent.

Which is why I think they had his value pegged at around $5M per, and that was taking into consideration that he was arguably more valuable to this team than any other. Seems 29 other teams agreed - including several who were in dire need of a WR and chose to pass in part because they felt his contract demands even before considering compensation were overstated.

Two felt he was worth more, sorta. There are always one or two in every group. Usually they are willing to pay a premium (or overpay) for a player not necessarily based on a significantly higher evaluation but based on anxiety about some unaddressed deficiency or need. The Seahawks wouldn't pay Hutchinson this spring, so now they are overpaying Branch to mitigate that loss. Good luck with that.

 

[DaBruinz]

In the Mike Reiss reports that I have read, he never reported that the Year 2 option bonus was guaranteed.


Example
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2006/08/05/no_reception_and_no_return/

Well, Miguel, usually when a person has a SIGNING bonus, whether its tiered or done as a lump sum, isn't it usually guaranteed?

And, Reiss' article was the only one I saw that had the 2nd bonus listed as an option bonus. Not saying that Reiss is wrong, but Borges reported it as an 8 million signing bonus.

 

[RayClay]

The Seahawk did have to give up a 1st round pick. I think that if they did not have to, they would probably been willing to give Branch even more money.


FWIW - The CBA would have allowed the Patriots to use the 2006 year in the amortization of the signing bonus.


So spreading around the $4 million around 2007/2008/2009 even though Branch received the money in 2006 to boost the 2007/2008/2009 average is not misleading. But using the $4 million in 2006 to compare it to what Branch is going to get from the Seahawks is misleading. Maybe I just need to drink some more kool-aid

It is not a maybe. It is what it is.

It's a signing bonus for his new contract. It's apples to oranges.

You're comparing the first year of a new contract to the last year of a contract in force, as if he was a free agent. But he never was.

Branch's contract for 2006 was for 1.045 mil and we held him to that.

That's the main reason he left. His agent even said we "coerced" him into signing the extra year. Obviously Seattle paid more than that too.

 

[BlueTalon]

The Seahawks wouldn't pay Hutchinson this spring, so now they are overpaying Branch to mitigate that loss.

Do you have any idea at all of what happened with Hutch? (If you did, you wouldn't have made that statement.)

 

[Miguel]

Well, Miguel, usually when a person has a SIGNING bonus, whether its tiered or done as a lump sum, isn't it usually guaranteed?

The point that I am trying to make is that Branch's option bonus is probably implicitly guaranteed, not explicitly guaranteed, as are most option bonuses.

The first tier is explicitly guaranteed.

And, Reiss' article was the only one I saw that had the 2nd bonus listed as an option bonus. Not saying that Reiss is wrong, but Borges reported it as an 8 million signing bonus.

When it comes to the cap, I trust Reiss more than I do Borges.

Brady's 12 million option bonus was not explicitly guaranteed. It was implicitly guaranteed. Seymour's option bonus was not explicitly guaranteed. It was implicitly guaranteed. I seriously doubt that the Patriots front office would
treat Branch's option bonus better than they did Brady's AND Seymour's.

Does anyone really believe that the Patriots front office would treat Branch's option bonus better than they did Brady's AND Seymour's???

 

[Miguel]

Which is why I think they had his value pegged at around $5M per, and that was taking into consideration that he was arguably more valuable to this team than any other.

$5 million per year for fluke production. That sounds exactly likes the Patriots' MO. Not.

I can understand bashing a player when he is leaving but not when it makes the Patriots front office look bad.

In the NFL business and in the business of the NFL money talks the loudest. The Patriots' incredibly fair first offer tells me all I need to know how much the architects of the Patriots' dynasty valued Branch. IMO, they thought very highly of Branch. Even though he never had more than 1000 yards in a season. Never had more than 5 TDs in a season. Only played all 16 games once. Blah, Blah. If those things were so important to BB and Pioli, why make him such a great first offer???

The Patriots are not about what a player can't do in their system. The Patriots are about what a player can do in their system.

 

[mgteich]

The patriots now have an extra 1st rounder at around #30.

Let's assemble a list of WR's the patriots would be willing to trade a 1st a sign a deal for $39M over four years including at least $9M guaranteed. People all seem to agree that the patriots would have paid even more if Branch counter-offered.

Is Branch on your list? Would you give the 1st back and sign Branch for $19M over 4 years or a bit more? Would you have been fine if Branch countered and the FO signed the deal with Branch.

IMHO, bb and pioli WERE willing to break the bank for Branch.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Do you have any idea at all of what happened with Hutch? (If you did, you wouldn't have made that statement.)

Yeah, I do. They let him play out his 5 year rookie deal without extending him - a deal he honored btw although with 3 pro bowls already on his resume he could certainly could have argued he substantially outperformed it - and then they screwed up big time and rolled the dice by transitioning him instead of franchising him - even though he is said to be the best young OLineman in the league - figuring they would let the market show him and them his value.

Had they been willing to assume a top 5 salary for him in March, something they would apparently have been willing to pay to retain him minus the poison pill implications in hindsight, they would not have lost him to the Vikings for a compensatory pick. A late day 1 pick for a #16 with a glittering resume was lost by a man who now rationalizes that the 1st round is a 50-50 crap shoot justifying his trade of next year's #1 for a WR drafted last in the second round who has never sniffed a pro bowl or had a thousand yard season. Although he did have the great good fortune to be on the receiving end of 11 legitimate MVP QB's passes, one of which was for a TD, in back to back Superbowls.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

$5 million per year for fluke production. That sounds exactly likes the Patriots' MO. Not.

I can understand bashing a player when he is leaving but not when it makes the Patriots front office look bad.

In the NFL business and in the business of the NFL money talks the loudest. The Patriots' incredibly fair first offer tells me all I need to know how much the architects of the Patriots' dynasty valued Branch. IMO, they thought very highly of Branch. Even though he never had more than 1000 yards in a season. Never had more than 5 TDs in a season. Only played all 16 games once. Blah, Blah. If those things were so important to BB and Pioli, why make him such a great first offer???

The Patriots are not about what a player can't do in their system. The Patriots are about what a player can do in their system.

I never said his production was fluke. What I said was the Patriots pegged his value at $5M per and that IMO (and yours a month ago) and the opinion of several GM's who also looked at him for WR help, that valuation was right about on the mark. That Seattle was willing to essentially pay a million more a year over the life of a contract for him does not mean we undervalued him, it means they were willing to overpay or pay a premium for him based on their perceived need. Which need I also believe at this point is truly greater for a stud LG than #2WR.

 

[upstater1]

And that's before we even compare the 5 year $31-33M extension the Pat's also offered which was said to contain $11M in bonus money though we never got the minute detail on that one because the 3 year deal played better.

So much for he got Reggie Wayne money. Reggie got a five-year, $39.5 million contract, including a $12.5 million signing bonus on 3/2/2006. Wayne will receive base salaries of $2.6 million (2006), $3.0 million (2007), $3.5 million (2008), $4.94 million (2009), 5.47 million (2010), and $5.95 million (2011). He's due roster bonuses of $380,000 in 2007 and $660,000 in 2008.

So essentially Reggie IS getting $21.6M for the first three years implicitly guaranteed by the $15.1M take in year one, while Deion may get MAY get $22.6M if he's there 3 years but his implicit guarantee is only $9.1M. Wayne's dead cap if cut in 2007 is $10M, while Deion's dead cap would be $5.6 and a net cap savings.

Right, if you compare the deals in the first 5 years (which seems reasonable to me since he'll be older and cuttable in that last year as you have minimal signing bonus to actualize on the cap) then Deion left for $2 million more guaranteed up front. In that last year he'll count $8 million against the cap. Considering he'll be 31 or 32 at that time, I believe it's reasonable to speculate his chances are about 50/50 that he'll see a 6th year in which he counts about $8 million against the Seahawks cap.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Not sure what this 'Deion the duplicitious pond scum' pervasion is about but the following is Deion's opening statement at his press conference taken from Reiss' Blog:

First and foremost, thank you all. I’d like to thank you all for giving me the opportunity to be here and be a part of this team. I’d also like to thank Mr. (Robert) Kraft, Coach (Bill) Belichick and Scott Pioli and the organization of the New England Patriots for drafting me and giving me the opportunity to be the player that I have excelled to be. Hopefully I can continue to be that player here with the Seattle Seahawks and deliver as such that I did with the New England Patriots and I will be ready and prepared to do that when my time comes. I would also like to thank the fans back in New England and also thank my teammates.....

In his last game for the Pats, the debacle at Mile High, he was one of the few guys who actually showed up to the tune of 8 receptions for 153 yards. In his two SB games, he caught a total of 21 passes for 276 yards. My favorite Deion post-season stat, however, is this: 8 games, ZERO fumbles lost. The Twig was a Redwood tree in games that mattered, and unlike some of his more highly touted WR peers (see Greatest Show on Turf Rams and the Dolts) in big games, the Smurf never suffered from alligator arms when going over the middle. More so, remember Deion's "Where the towels?" It's because of Branch and Dillon that I think Polamalu is so overrated and couldn't carry Rodney's jockstrap.

But he's gone. And I've gotten over it. Though I love the WR prospects coming out in the draft next year, I'm really not at ease concerning this season given that Branch is now the third big time, clutch player critical to the Pats' past SB success who's been jettisoned in this one offseason.

 

[RayClay]

Not sure what this 'Deion the duplicitious pond scum' pervasion is about but the following is Deion's opening statement at his press conference taken from Reiss' Blog:



In his last game for the Pats, the debacle at Mile High, he was one of the few guys who actually showed up to the tune of 8 receptions for 153 yards. In his two SB games, he caught a total of 21 passes for 276 yards. My favorite Deion post-season stat, however, is this: 8 games, ZERO fumbles lost. The Twig was a Redwood tree in games that mattered, and unlike some of his more highly touted WR peers (see Greatest Show on Turf Rams and the Dolts) in big games, the Smurf never suffered from alligator arms when going over the middle. More so, remember Deion's "Where the towels?" It's because of Branch and Dillon that I think Polamalu is so overrated and couldn't carry Rodney's jockstrap.

But he's gone. And I've gotten over it. Though I love the WR prospects coming out in the draft next year, I'm really not at ease concerning this season given that Branch is now the third big time, clutch player critical to the Pats' past SB success who's been jettisoned in this one offseason.

By jettisoned you mean asked to fulfill his contract before starting a new one?

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

By jettisoned you mean....

Traded.

Also, apologies to the person who began this thread. Thought I was replying in another thread.

 

[ChockBlkr]

FWIW - I happen to agree with you.

Do you mean that you don't think that his #s would have to be reduced, especially in years 3 - 6? seems like alot for 70 catches a year.
about $100,000 per catch. thats alot of cash.

 

[AdamJT13]

Just to clarify, Branch's $6 million option bonus is protected. If the Seahawks don't pay it, his base salary of $3.38 million for 2007 becomes guaranteed, as does $2.62 million of his base salary in 2008.

Also, his base salary for this season is $1,976,470, since he missed Week 1.

 

[RayClay]

Traded.

Also, apologies to the person who began this thread. Thought I was replying in another thread.

Jettisoned means thrown overboard or discarded.

He refused to play while under contract and was traded.

Monty Beisel was jettisoned.