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Branch's contract

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Miguel, Sep 13, 2006.

  1. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/?p=2926&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

    My calculations
    2006 - Cash intake of $9.1 million - Pats' last reported offer -5.045 million
    2007 - Cash intake of $9.38 million - Pats last offer- $5.5 million
    2008 - Cash intake of $4.16 million - Pats offer - $4.4 million
    2009 - Cash intake of $4.94 million - Pats offer - $4.85 million
    2010 - Cash intake of $5.47 million
    2011 - Cash intake of $5.95 million

    Cap Hits
    2006 3,500,000
    2007 5,980,000
    2008 6,760,000
    2009 7,540,000
    2010 8,070,000
    2011 7,150,000
  2. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    That is a lot more than I thought it would be. I would gladly piss all of you off for an extra $8,000,000 over the next two years. ;)
  3. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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  4. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I know based on initial reports I was looking at this as a guranteed 3 years $23 million contract.

    But looking at the cap hits and actual salaries for the duration of the contract, assuming Branch is playing somewhat productively, it seems to me he can play out the term of the contract - especially given the rising cap.

    (Miguel - your thoughts on that?)

    Seems to me that as far as a cap managment philosophy goes, the Patriots have made it clear the the rest of the NFL that players (well, WRs at least) that are looking for the biggest cash payout should avoid the Patriots (this is what Chayut knew and why he was intent on forcing his client out of town)

    Perhaps they'd pay top dollar for some special players (see Derrick Mason) but not for a 1a player like Branch.

    Instead they prefer players hungry for more than money - they want players who crave a Super Bowl Ring.

    But, by the same token I'd be willing to bet that its understood that the quality "middle class" players - stand to make more than they might on other teams that have spent the majority of their cap on just a few players.

    As such, the Patriots continue to place themselves in a situtaion where in the long term they have the quality depth to consistently weather injuries, and compete and win Super Bowls.
  5. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We knew Allen had some spare change laying around, good for Deion - buh bye.
  6. hwc

    hwc Rookie

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    Keep in mind that the only guaranteed money in the Seattle deal is the $7 million signing bonus and the $2.1 first year salary: $9.1 million. The second year option bonus is NOT guaranteed.

    As reported, the three-year version of the Pats offer had $8 million in guaranteed bonuses: the $4 million signing bonus and the $4 million GUARANTEED option bonus plus, of course, the $1.05 million first year salary: total $9.05 million.

    I think there's a good chance that the Seahawks will cut the player after this year unless the player can equal or exceed last year's fluke production.

    If the player has a 40 catch season, the team is not going to fork over 9 million in new money to trigger year 2.
  7. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If the player has a 40 catch season, the team is not going to fork over 9 million in new money to trigger year 2.[/QUOTE]

    FWIW - The option bonus could be implicitly guaranteed even if it is not explicitly guaranteed. That is, if the Seahawks do not pick up the $6 million option bonus they may have to guarantee $6 million in future salaries.
  8. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And that's before we even compare the 5 year $31-33M extension the Pat's also offered which was said to contain $11M in bonus money though we never got the minute detail on that one because the 3 year deal played better.

    So much for he got Reggie Wayne money. Reggie got a five-year, $39.5 million contract, including a $12.5 million signing bonus on 3/2/2006. Wayne will receive base salaries of $2.6 million (2006), $3.0 million (2007), $3.5 million (2008), $4.94 million (2009), 5.47 million (2010), and $5.95 million (2011). He's due roster bonuses of $380,000 in 2007 and $660,000 in 2008.

    So essentially Reggie IS getting $21.6M for the first three years implicitly guaranteed by the $15.1M take in year one, while Deion may get MAY get $22.6M if he's there 3 years but his implicit guarantee is only $9.1M. Wayne's dead cap if cut in 2007 is $10M, while Deion's dead cap would be $5.6 and a net cap savings.
  9. hwc

    hwc Rookie

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    Could be. But the article you referenced specifically stated that the year 2 option bonus is NOT guaranteed.

    On the other hand, published acounts of the Patriots offer to the player specifically stated that the Year 2 option bonus was guaranteed.
  10. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    That's wrong, Miguel. His salary for 2006 was 1.045 million. That's what's misleading. We had him under contract, Seattle didn't.

    Spreading that 4mil around I get 6.25 mil, (rounded) per year for three years if your numbers are correct.

    I'm not very good with numbers, but I'm fairly sure we didn't agree to tear up the 2006 contract.

    If we didn't have him under contract, Seattle wouldn't have to give us a #1 pick.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2006
  11. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is so much that is 100% dead on with this post Joe. You have identified the difference between Seattle's desperate, win it at all costs this year philosophy versus the Patriots win all the Superbowls most of the time reality.

    Interesting that the media never mentions the "share the wealth" status enjoyed by the middle tier.
    Media never mentions the players that we DO resign (other than Seymour & Brady).
    You are very much correct in pointing out that we seek and sign hungry players aching for a ring.

    The jealous nature of 31 other teams, the zealous nature of a media desperate for controversy with this team and all the rest of Patriot haters will once again be totally dumbfounded, shocked and amazed when we ring up another one.
  12. RI Pats Fan

    RI Pats Fan Rookie

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    Yes, it WAS. Minus the fines, NOW it's going to be around 8 million dollars.

    Hey. I hear Branch had a golden elevator installed in his house to take him from the first floor to the 5th
    Enjoy. ;-)
  13. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In the Mike Reiss reports that I have read, he never reported that the Year 2 option bonus was guaranteed.


    Example
    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2006/08/05/no_reception_and_no_return/
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That seems the likely structure.

    What seems to be lost in all this discussion is that this 1a receiver was offered over $9M to play this year by the pats and seattle. If he hadn't put up such a stink, he would have been paid $1M.

    FWIW - The option bonus could be implicitly guaranteed even if it is not explicitly guaranteed. That is, if the Seahawks do not pick up the $6 million option bonus they may have to guarantee $6 million in future salaries.[/QUOTE]
  15. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Patriots' offer included a $4 million signing bonus in 2006.

    I never said that Branch was not under contract and for the record I never thought that, either.
  16. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The last time I checked the years 2006/2007/2008/2009/2010/2011 covered 6 years. Wayne's deal is a six-year $39 million contract. Branch's deal is a six-year $39 million contract.

    Using your numbers

    12,500,000
    2,600,000
    3,000,000
    3,500,000
    4,940,000
    5,470,000
    5,950,000
    380,000
    660,000

    totals up to $39 million.
  17. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    After putting a fluke year of production;)
  18. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    FWIW - I happen to agree with you.
  19. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That statement was true in the past. I am not so sure that the Patriots' middle class is paid better than other team's middle-class anymore after the $17 million increase in the cap.
  20. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    Precisely my point. The signing bonus was part of his new contract. He'd already signed this one.

    Just pointing out the unfairness of comparing other teams offers, (they'd tear up the contract), to ours.

    Those teams aren't going to tear up the last year of all contracts favorable to them.

    Signing bonus is for new contract, after old contract has expired.

    I know it's a technicality and maybe he gets the money now, but it's necessary to show the inferior bargaining position we were in if we treat him as if he was a free agent.
  21. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Rookie

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    There are obviously many who would disagree with your characterization of that season as a fluke. Nevertheless, if he has 40 catches, a lot would depend on what he did with those catches. But unless he develops a serious attitude problem for the Seahawks, or turns into a talentless bust, he's not going to get cut after one year.


    By the way, as you're doing your number crunching on Branch's contract, let me throw this into the mix. Massachusetts has a state income tax, Washington does not. With your 5.3% rate, Branch's contract will be worth about $2 million more in Seattle than it would be in New England.
  22. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Math actually makes my head ache, but $9.1 isn't $15M either. If both of these guys were to suffer career ending injuries next week, one of them rides into the sunset with $5.9M more than the other And if they don't, the guy with the $15M already in the bank is a lot less likely to be cut or told to take a cut or seek employment elsewhere should be not quite equal nevermind surpass the production in his best season to date, by fluke or otherwise.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2006
  23. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Seahawk did have to give up a 1st round pick. I think that if they did not have to, they would probably been willing to give Branch even more money.

    FWIW - The CBA would have allowed the Patriots to use the 2006 year in the amortization of the signing bonus.
    So spreading around the $4 million around 2007/2008/2009 even though Branch received the money in 2006 to boost the 2007/2008/2009 average is not misleading. But using the $4 million in 2006 to compare it to what Branch is going to get from the Seahawks is misleading. Maybe I just need to drink some more kool-aid;)

    It is not a maybe. It is what it is.
  24. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Two of them being BB and Pioli. There is no way that they would be offering Branch the money that they did if they thought that the 2005 season was a fluke.

    But what do they know??? They just won 3 of the 5 past Super Bowls.

    In BB we trust, except when it comes to changing Branch's talent.
  25. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Which is why I think they had his value pegged at around $5M per, and that was taking into consideration that he was arguably more valuable to this team than any other. Seems 29 other teams agreed - including several who were in dire need of a WR and chose to pass in part because they felt his contract demands even before considering compensation were overstated.

    Two felt he was worth more, sorta. There are always one or two in every group. Usually they are willing to pay a premium (or overpay) for a player not necessarily based on a significantly higher evaluation but based on anxiety about some unaddressed deficiency or need. The Seahawks wouldn't pay Hutchinson this spring, so now they are overpaying Branch to mitigate that loss. Good luck with that.
  26. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, Miguel, usually when a person has a SIGNING bonus, whether its tiered or done as a lump sum, isn't it usually guaranteed?

    And, Reiss' article was the only one I saw that had the 2nd bonus listed as an option bonus. Not saying that Reiss is wrong, but Borges reported it as an 8 million signing bonus.
  27. RayClay

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    It's a signing bonus for his new contract. It's apples to oranges.

    You're comparing the first year of a new contract to the last year of a contract in force, as if he was a free agent. But he never was.

    Branch's contract for 2006 was for 1.045 mil and we held him to that.

    That's the main reason he left. His agent even said we "coerced" him into signing the extra year. Obviously Seattle paid more than that too.
  28. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Rookie

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    Do you have any idea at all of what happened with Hutch? (If you did, you wouldn't have made that statement.)
  29. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The point that I am trying to make is that Branch's option bonus is probably implicitly guaranteed, not explicitly guaranteed, as are most option bonuses.

    The first tier is explicitly guaranteed.

    When it comes to the cap, I trust Reiss more than I do Borges.

    Brady's 12 million option bonus was not explicitly guaranteed. It was implicitly guaranteed. Seymour's option bonus was not explicitly guaranteed. It was implicitly guaranteed. I seriously doubt that the Patriots front office would
    treat Branch's option bonus better than they did Brady's AND Seymour's.

    Does anyone really believe that the Patriots front office would treat Branch's option bonus better than they did Brady's AND Seymour's???
  30. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    $5 million per year for fluke production. That sounds exactly likes the Patriots' MO. Not.

    I can understand bashing a player when he is leaving but not when it makes the Patriots front office look bad.

    In the NFL business and in the business of the NFL money talks the loudest. The Patriots' incredibly fair first offer tells me all I need to know how much the architects of the Patriots' dynasty valued Branch. IMO, they thought very highly of Branch. Even though he never had more than 1000 yards in a season. Never had more than 5 TDs in a season. Only played all 16 games once. Blah, Blah. If those things were so important to BB and Pioli, why make him such a great first offer???

    The Patriots are not about what a player can't do in their system. The Patriots are about what a player can do in their system.

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