Branch is a true #1

[Mike the Brit]

The problem he has created is , rather than wait for Beoli to negotiate with him, he chose to challenge them. No way can they give in or there will be an endless parade of hold outs facing them. Is Branch that much more important than Samuels, Koppen, Graham etc? What about the next group for next year that becomes free in 2008? Is the way to a new contract to hold out now?

How can the Patriots pay him now and not create a basic ongoing hold out situation?

I don't think you can blame Deion and exempt RS and Brady. If you're going
to allow them to re-negotiate early, then everyone else should be entitled to.

Of course, a QB is going to get more than a safety, but you should stick to your principles. If a team has those principles and everyone knows it then, in the end, it's a happier place. It's not as if any of these guys are not going to end up very rich -- Seymour was being paid, what, $4m a year. I love the Pats and the way they run things, but they'd be better off with a simpler system where everyone knows where he stands -- less resentment in the long term.

 

[Pats67]

we once had that system where there was no resentment and everybody knew where they stood. The late 90's.

 

[Pats726]

I do not think this deal will get done now, unless Deion comes into camp, on time and is very quiet. He sent his message, now he needs to shut up.

The problem he has created is , rather than wait for Beoli to negotiate with him, he chose to challenge them. No way can they give in or there will be an endless parade of hold outs facing them. Is Branch that much more important than Samuels, Koppen, Graham etc? What about the next group for next year that becomes free in 2008? Is the way to a new contract to hold out now?

I really think he has forced himself to play for 1MM this year and then Patriots will deal with him after the season. Maybe we even franchise him one time, if it makes financial sense to do so.

I love Deion - but I think he received some really bad advice. Biting the hand that feeds is not wise, there had to have been a better way. He is not Richard Seymour or Tom Brady (TB never got that far of course).

How can the Patriots pay him now and not create a basic ongoing hold out situation?

I agree totally...he put himself in a bad situation..and staying out of the charity tournament?? THAT was just poor..NO excuse you did send a message..and not a good one with that!!! It will be up to him..he may shoot himself in the foot..he is gambling 1---that he will follow as Sey did into big money..the problem is he lsoes this one in many ways. He;s NOT the elite receiver that Sey was to DL..he is in the top tier of receivers..and will get paid that way..overpaid?? NOT..the Pats know this and the fans know it..so he has lost that gamble.. Next is the TC gamble..and he may lose big time..in beig aout a few days is fine..but the bigger gamble is the season..and having a non productive one..or worse injured...he lsoes big time if either happen..

 

[Pats726]

I don't think you can blame Deion and exempt RS and Brady. If you're going
to allow them to re-negotiate early, then everyone else should be entitled to.

That isn't the problem...DB is simply demanding way too much money..as was stated, both RS and TB took a discount for negotiating early...and Branch will not do that..by getting a deal done early he is locked in and a bad season or injury would not matter..what makes DB think he should not do the same?? If he was in a ballpark a deal would get done..the problem is he wants way too much..it is obvious.

 

[Mike the Brit]

That isn't the problem...DB is simply demanding way too much money..as was stated, both RS and TB took a discount for negotiating early...and Branch will not do that..by getting a deal done early he is locked in and a bad season or injury would not matter..what makes DB think he should not do the same?? If he was in a ballpark a deal would get done..the problem is he wants way too much..it is obvious.

OK, then, thanks Deion and good luck!

I was responding to Fgssand who said that the problem is that he wouldn't wait for BB/SP to negotiate with him and that he is "not Richard Seymour or Tom Brady". Of course he isn't -- but that doesn't mean that a team that values TEAM should not have rules that apply to everyone.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I frankly don't get too excited over who the number 1 WR is, not with Ben Watson threatening to become the number 1 reciever this season.

It's one thing to talk about number of receptions - and we all hope Watson can jump from 20 odd receptions to 70 odd this season and be the 2nd coming of Ben Coates - but that's a tall order and doesn't mean he's a WR.

Unless there's been some talk of a position change for Watson, he's still a TE last I heard and not a WR.

Even though we know he has speed I'm not expecting Watson to be used primarilly as a deep threat.

TEs keep defenses honest by creating options in the short to mid range -whereas #1 WRs keep defenses honest by creating options in the long game.

There's a reason why teams have WRs AND TEs. I wouldn't want to abdicate the #1 WR position to a TE - that wouldn't be smart football.

 

[Pats67]

I think the REAL problem is that - even with the recent example of Seymour's then-controversial holdout that, with time, was eventually resolved by both parties - fans generally have no patience to allow both sides their time to negotiate. Everyone is in such a rush to judgement. Just relax. The angst does nothing to get the deal done. The analysis at best is half (or less) informed.

It bothers me to see people worried about whether he showed up for a golf tournament and this recent mini-camp, and drawing all these conclusions about his character and value to the team. Pretty short memories. He's the most accomplished post-season receiver in the history of the team. He's worked hard to become what he is. He doesn't have a right to try to get the most he can in return for his effort?

Why can't we just let this play out on its own schedule (as Seymour's did) without spending all summer (and potentially next season) in this sort of talk-show rush to judgement mode? Both sides of this negotiation have earned more respect than that.

 

[Murphys95]

Of all the Patriots receivers who could miss the mini-camp, it would be Deion. Players like Reche Caldwell and Chad Jackson need the reps. Add in that Seymour was absent from this camp last year and I wouldn't read too much into Branch's absence.

On the other hand , just to play devil's advocate with statistics. Here's how Branch compares to another Patriots 2nd rounder:

Deion Branch (first 4 years with Patriots): 2744 yards, 14 tds
Vincent Brisby (first 3 years with Patriots): 2504 yards, 10 tds

 

[Mike the Brit]

The angst does nothing to get the deal done.

Of course not.

The analysis at best is half (or less) informed.

Of course -- we're fans and we're on the outside.

It bothers me to see people worried about whether he showed up for a golf tournament and this recent mini-camp, and drawing all these conclusions about his character and value to the team.

Whether he holds out of mini-camp says nothing about his value to the team. But it does, in my view, say something about his character. For just the reasons identified in your post!

If the team is negotiating with a player, how does it help that negotiation to stay away from camp? If you were in a business deal would it help the negotiation to give your negotiating partner's car door a kick? Why do NFL players and their agents think that it is a good idea to hurt the team?

Pretty short memories. He's the most accomplished post-season receiver in the history of the team. He's worked hard to become what he is. He doesn't have a right to try to get the most he can in return for his effort?

I think that he's a very good player and very valuable to the team.

Wherever he might rank in the pecking order of NFL receivers, his relationship with Brady makes him more valuable to the Patriots. I've also always liked what I've learned of Deion's personality.

Of course, he has a right to get the most he can in return for his effort. But I have a right to my judgement too. If a player is prepared to disrupt the team that has coached him into what he has become for the sake of the difference between $18m and $20m then I think he's crazy. He will be getting more money than most people know what to do with anyway; if getting every last dollar is all that matters to him then he's a sorry person.

Why can't we just let this play out on its own schedule (as Seymour's did) without spending all summer (and potentially next season) in this sort of talk-show rush to judgement mode? Both sides of this negotiation have earned more respect than that.

I don't want the whole thing to be like a talk show, but anyone who is still concerned about football at this time of the year is entitled to be worried about where things are going.

ten characters

 

[Pats726]

OK, then, thanks Deion and good luck!

I was responding to Fgssand who said that the problem is that he wouldn't wait for BB/SP to negotiate with him and that he is "not Richard Seymour or Tom Brady". Of course he isn't -- but that doesn't mean that a team that values TEAM should not have rules that apply to everyone.

What rules are not being applied to Branch?? That is what I am trying to understand..what rules are not being applied equally??

 

[dhamz]

I frankly don't get too excited over who the number 1 WR is, not with Ben Watson threatening to become the number 1 reciever this season.

Is this the same Ben Watson who has never had 30 ctaches in a season, has had as many as 5 catches in a game only once, and in his last game caught a grand total of zero?

I know he has skills and I know he looks fantastic in things like mini-camp (as guys with his tools always do) but I think saying he is "threatening" to become a #1 is a gigantic leap of faith based solely on his tools. To this point he has shown nothing on the field that would lead anyone to think he is on his way to surpassing Branch as Brady's top target.

 

[Mike the Brit]

What rules are not being applied to Branch?? That is what I am trying to understand..what rules are not being applied equally??

If I understood him right, Fgssand said: it was OK for RS and TB to want their deals negotiated early; but Deion should have been prepared to wait. I say: if you did it for RS, I don't see why you shouldn't do it for Deion. I don't accept that there should be one principle for "elite" players and another one for the rest. Where do you draw the line? Only leads to resentment.

 

[Pats67]

ten characters

You admit in one breath that your analysis is half (or less) informed, but you still insist you have a right to your 'judgement' anyway. You don't want it to become a talk-show, but that exactly what that kind of thinking is. All this 'disrupting the team' talk is just Harry High School bullsh**. Somehow the team survived when Richard did it. His holdout wasn't the reason they lost to Denver, and Deion's hold out (if there is one) won't be responsible for anything but a bunch of caterwalling this summer. Its a business, and nobody is going to look out for Deion Branch but Deion Branch. We can at least respect that.

 

[Pats726]

If I understood him right, Fgssand said: it was OK for RS and TB to want their deals negotiated early; but Deion should have been prepared to wait. I say: if you did it for RS, I don't see why you shouldn't do it for Deion. I don't accept that there should be one principle for "elite" players and another one for the rest. Where do you draw the line? Only leads to resentment.

I agree with you they should negotiate...I think in many cases..they may not..but they have in many..most and I believe the Patriots HAVE negotiated with Branch. The problem is it is at a stalemate...and there are a few differences..between TS/TB and DB. Firstly, Branch has held out and didn't even bother to show up at the charity event..NOT a smart move at all. By holding out, he is trying to make a point..Sey did..but Sey is also one of the best in his position. Branch is not. That simply is a fact. Why will Branch NOT accept an injurk risk discount (as Miguuel pointed out)??? There are differences and Deion is digging a deeper hole..I like Deion..have met him twice in TC in 04 and 05...but sadly...he is getting BAD advice.

 

[Mike the Brit]

You admit in one breath that your analysis is half (or less) informed, but you still insist you have a right to your 'judgement' anyway. You don't want it to become a talk-show, but that exactly what that kind of thinking is. All this 'disrupting the team' talk is just Harry High School bullsh**. Somehow the team survived when Richard did it. His holdout wasn't the reason they lost to Denver, and Deion's hold out (if there is one) won't be responsible for anything but a bunch of caterwalling this summer. Its a business, and nobody is going to look out for Deion Branch but Deion Branch. We can at least respect that.

If it wasn't important to the team that the players come to mini-camp, they wouldn't hold them. :bricks:

 

[Pats726]

Its a business, and nobody is going to look out for Deion Branch but Deion Branch. We can at least respect that.

It's a business and when you don't show up for work, what happens?? And not showing up for a charity event?? Is that looking out for Deion?? If it is, he's getting bad advice.

 

[ilduce06410]

when/who made a contract proposal?

That isn't the problem...DB is simply demanding way too much money..as was stated, both RS and TB took a discount for negotiating early...and Branch will not do that..by getting a deal done early he is locked in and a bad season or injury would not matter..what makes DB think he should not do the same?? If he was in a ballpark a deal would get done..the problem is he wants way too much..it is obvious.

has he or his agent actually formulated an offer?
could be that it's right in front of me, but i'm having kind of a hard time finding it.
curran may have started a tempest in a teapot, with high-minded comments and detailed analyses of an offer that doesn't exist.

 

[ilduce06410]

tell me, who made an offer on branch's behalf?

What rules are not being applied to Branch?? That is what I am trying to understand..what rules are not being applied equally??

who made the offer we're all discussing ?
i guess it was tom curran.

 

[Pats726]

has he or his agent actually formulated an offer?
could be that it's right in front of me, but i'm having kind of a hard time finding it.

Oh...you don't work in the Pats FO??? Oh..OK..If I remember correctly there was a mention about some kind of impasse in an SI.com story...

 

[Pats67]

If it wasn't important to the team that the players come to mini-camp, they wouldn't hold them. :bricks:

Save the bricks Mike. Nowhere in there did I say anything about minicamp not being important. So the punchline doesn't apply.

What's Harry High School horsesh** is when fans take an occurance like this to leap off the cliff with a lot of tough talk about bad advice and disruptions and what the player's true 'value' is, when in reality, they're talking out of their *ss. As I asked before, did it disrupt the 05 Patriots when Richard Seymour applied the leverage available to him to bring his contract to where he was happy with it? No, it didn't. Sh** happens, you resolve it, and you move on.

I am absolutely convinced that no one in the front office or the locker room takes this stuff nearly as personally as we do here. And THAT'S what's Harry High School horeseh**.