Welcome to PatsFans.com

Brainwashing

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by jczxohn1, Jan 4, 2007.

  1. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Forgive me for making a statement that may not be popular to some. "Brainwashing" was a technique of mind control popularized in the early '50's by the movie "The Manchurian Candidate". Perpetrated by the North Koreans on American (and others) prisoners of war using techniques of beatings, torture, sensory deprivation, and intermittent reward, prisoners were "deprived of their will" which was replaced with sentiments and behavior sympathetic to their captors[b/], much like the later popular "Helsinki Syndrome" of Patti Hurst fame.

    We currently have an all volunteer military. Those who join do so willingly, and joining is not to be taken lightly. In joining one subscribes, of their own free will, to certain tenets of military life, including indoctrination into the skills and mores amd beliefs that make one a viable member. It is not brainwashing.

    To those whose beliefs hold that they may question any authority or command, in any situation, military life was probably a mistaken decision. There are remedies, declining to reinlist, in some cases a GD or UD, etc. They are not in prison, they joined voluntarily, they can leave under prescribed circumstances, and they are expected to perform their duties until they do so. They are not brainwashed.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2007
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    **crickets**
  3. The Predator

    The Predator Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I will bite on this point. I think you put far too much emphasis upon the meaning ad grammatical usage of the word "and." The way that you try to define the word "and" limits it to only one usage. This is far from accurate. You are assuming that the word "and" is onlu used in the English language as a word that adds lists together. You are claiming that the first statement (defend constitution) must also involve the second statement (obey the Pres). English grammar does not demand this interp at all.

    Please refer to The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press that demonstrated the Coordinating Conjunction. The CC joins two two items of equal signifigance that may stand on their own independantly. One item does not need the other item to function, nor does it demand the two items must be linked together. They have the ability to completly stand upon their own while joined with another item with the use on the word "and."

    While your interpretaion on "and" could be correct, it is certainly not the dogmatic point that you desire it to be. When you need a conjuction to make your point you are digging at the bottom of the barrel.

    Thank you for you post. I just want you to be as correct as possible.
  4. The Predator

    The Predator Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Well ty I appreciate your honesty. I killed the crickets!!!
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,640
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +141 / 1 / -4

    jczxohn1, "brainwashing" is an unattractive word, and using your definition, it's incorrect, but the word is fair, as the American Heritage dictionary shows:

    http://www.bartleby.com/61/1/B0450100.html

    "1. Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set of fixed beliefs. 2. The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation."

    Just as many of us are locked into the belief that the U.S. is greatest country in the world, mostly because of what we've been told or want to believe about other countries, soldiers are locked into a the set of beliefs that the military promotes to build a fighting force. If soldiers are only told how well the war is going by people they trust, they are likely to believe the war is going well longer than people who get information from diverse sources. Whether you volunteer or not, if you're fed and convinced of misinformation, the net effect will be brainwashing (using the definition above).
  6. The Predator

    The Predator Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I hope you are using this as an example and not part or your belief system. If not, then what is the greatest country in the world and are you living there?
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    38,812
    Likes Received:
    119
    Ratings:
    +295 / 1 / -7

    Many left wing progressive politically correct liberal democrats trash America because even with all their bleating and yelling about "freedom" they HATE the idea of the "right wing" having the freedom to tell them they are full of sh!t.

    The Far Left Progressive Batty Liberal Democrat wants Complete Power.

    Keep your eye on Auntie Pelosi, if you thought Hillary was bad wait until this grinning Looney Liberal Witch gets warmed up.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,640
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +141 / 1 / -4

    What measure should I use to define the greatest country? There are many things I love about this country, especially its creativity, multiculturalism, and dynamism. On the other hand, I admire countries like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, France, and Spain, where I have spent some time. There are also many countries I don't know enough about but I've heard good things about, such as Japan, Costa Rica, New Zealand, and Kenya. I certainly have been brainwashed to believe the U.S. is the greatest country, but I don't know that for a fact, and I don't see how you can.
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,725
    Likes Received:
    124
    Ratings:
    +248 / 3 / -2

    That's cuz you and Press were the only ones to post. The dude who started the thread hit a Grand Slam, and then you two water boys showed up.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2007
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,725
    Likes Received:
    124
    Ratings:
    +248 / 3 / -2

    Basically NEM, he's saying to STFU. :D


    I'm teasing NEMmy. I still luv you bud!
  11. The Predator

    The Predator Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I do not understand where your hostility comes from or if that is the way you try to be funny. Whatever floats your boat. I wasn't telling NEM to shut up, I was just pointing out that his explanation is incorrect and the point he made is mute because of grammatical evidence.

    NEM actually responded and admitted he was wrong. He deserves cretid for that.
  12. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0


    I didn't start using this "unattractive" word. It is a heavily laden word, often used lightly by hyperbolics, and I simply wanted to point that out. It is also a word that I deem inappropriate when applied to members of our military, no matter what obscure dictionary definition you drag up to justify it.

    I would further suggest that our soldiers, through the internet, are exposed to a more diverse set of opinions on the progress, or lack of it, of our war efforts than many citizens who get their only information through the mainstream media. Furthermore, they have the first-hand experience of seeing for themselves what their efforts are accomplishing. No doubt, some are dissatisfied with progress, but their present position of being forced to turn responsibilities over to an inferior force and play back-up, as well as knowing the political situation requires them to take a hands-off policy to some troublemakers, is bound to create dissatisfaction.

    There is no whether they volunteered or not. That is not a valid distinction. They volunteered. There is no "I didn't volunteer for this s**t." That is why they deserve ourunwavering support. As far as being "fed and convinced of misinformation" goes, John Kerry does not have the key to the nature of our military volunteers. They know b.s. when they see it, probably much more keenly than he does. Their lives depend on it.

    Thank you for your interest.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2007
  13. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,985
    Likes Received:
    178
    Ratings:
    +282 / 5 / -8



    I value my life too much to wade into the substance of this post, but let me get a couple of facts straight here.

    "Brainwashing" is a broad and pejorative term. Lots of activities fall under it, and depending on the speaker, adhering to an opponent's political platform is often a symptom of it. "Brainwashing..." is just too broad and too happily tossed around to be used meaningfully in serious debate at this point.

    There is not, to my knowledge, a "Helsinki Syndrome." I think you mean "Stokholm Syndrome," although you could mean "Finlandization," though this is more an international rather than interpersonal effect :rolleyes: Anyway, easy mistake to make from memory, just bustin' chops.

    PFnV
  14. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 Rookie

    Joined:
    May 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,677
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    kind of like "Proselytising"

    just busting chops :)

    *by the way, some awesome posting by you and the others on the Religious board. I've enjoyed it and have learned from all of you.
  15. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0


    Let's all be clear on one point: today's U.S. military is an *ALL-VOLUNTEER* military. Hello! No one has to go if they do not feel called to go. Our nation's history -- would that it were taught accurately in our public schools these days -- should provide ample evidence of how and why our military will be called into service; *anybody* who has the least bit of trepidation over the use of our military simply has to look for another occupation. There are *NO* press gangs kidnapping people to fight wars any more, not in the U.S., anyway.

    And, NEMster: you are trying to build an outhouse out of smoke and mirrors with your flimsy argument on Bush: it stinks, but has no substance. You are buying into this false notion that Bush, and Bush "alone", ventured into Iraq purely as some macabre, sick, demented "business deal" to make money for himself and his "cronies". Hey, the U.S. was attacked by a highly trained, highly "brainwashed", highly mis-directed, mis-guided, and mis-used bunch of young men, most of whom from Saudi Arabia, who wanted to destroy America!! Or had you forgotten?

    There are those in the world who want to cut YOUR head off simply because you are an American!! They do not care if you now write in their defense; you, as an American, are "not fit to live" in their eyes simply because you are an American "infidel". That's the state of fanaticism these poor folks have been whipped into. It is NOT Geo Bush's fault they are that way!!

    Sure, the U.S. can and should have done more for helping the average Muslim around the world these past 50 years -- the Palestine-Arab/Israel fester is enough of a symptom to get us moving -- but, the fact is, BOTH sides of the aisle, Democrat (Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton) and Republican (Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, Bush and Bush II) have come up short.

    We are ALL Americans. Calling for each other's heads is like suicide; it's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. It is extremely counter-productive. It only weakens our national fabric, making us an even MORE tempting target for those who wish us ill. And it is just plain unhealthy.

    Peace, love, and GO PATS!! JET the Jets!!


    //
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,640
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +141 / 1 / -4

    Actually, I intentionally linked to the American Heritage dictionary, which is probably the best dictionary there is for American-English definitions. The way you mean "brainwash," I agree it's inappropriate, and I stopped using it in this forum because people took it to mean something out of a 1950s sci-fi flick.

    Anyone who works for a large company knows that their perspective of that employer is skewed by their knowledge of that employer. I would assume the same is true for soldiers.

    Of course our troops deserve our support, but not the sort of pandering that demeans their intelligence. Also, unwavering support may mean going against the policies of the man who sending them to war. I don't think it's possible to have unwavering support for our troops and our president at the same time.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>