Brainstorming......Ryan Mallet.

[patfanken]

Under the assumption, of course, that BB saw Mallett primarily as a trade chip for future trades, I suppose this is at least possible.

That said, I suspect the only QB available at Wild Bill's Hot Young Quarterback Emporium during the draft will be Brian Hoyer.

CT, I don't doubt that Hoyer is the better QB right now. But this isn't about "right now" its about who has the potential to be the kind of "franchise QB" that everyone is looking for.

AND the next critical question in this hypothetical scenario is whether Mallet is seen as a better QB prospect than 2 college QBs who teams are likely to draft in the 2nd round. This scenario makes no sense if you WOULDN'T draft Weeden and Oswielderwhatever in the 2nd round, just as it WOULDN'T make sense if you felt Mallet wasn't a good QB prospect.

BUT IF YOU DID, then it makes perfect sense.

As to Hoyer, I would agree that he too could be available, but I don't think he'd have the higher value, even though he is probably the better QB at this particular point of their careers. I know that in some level that doesn't make sense, but trade value is all about "perception", and the "perception" is that Mallet has a much higher upside than Brian Hoyer.

But it all goes back to the key question. If you are going to draft a QB in the 2nd round, wouldn't Ryan Mallet be a better prospect than the 2 guys that are going to be available? And if so, wouldn't it make more sense to trade that pick to the Pats for Mallet, than to use it on a 28 year old rookie who doesn't have the physical talents of a YOUNGER guy who already has a year into the league.

 

[patfanken]

Get rid of this STUPID football logic and accept it's pretty unlikely to happen. The Patriots are only a year removed from spending a third round pick on this guy. I'm sorry but it just doesn't make any business sense at all. You're not going to get more than what you spent on this guy as he's unproven. So you're going to make a loss and, what's worse, waste a pretty damn decent pick which you then could have spent elsewhere.

Then you are obviously missing the point because the reason the Pats drafted Mallet WAS to trade him. Do you really think that Mallet is going to actually get on the field in the next 3 years, barring a major injury to Brady??? Drafting Mallet ONLY works if Brady goes down and Mallet is the back up. What exactly is the value of drafting a QB THAT high who is going to sit for 4 years. It would make the pick as bad as the OConnell one. NO! UK, the point is that he WAS drafted as future trade bait.

If the Pats were that willing to get rid of Mallett it would be because his character issues are showing through on the training field or he's not what he was made up to be...and then they would shop him for anything they could get. You just don't get rid of 3rd round choices after just one year of preseason play...and even that was minimal experience.

They aren't trying to get rid of him because they don't like him as a football player. They will try to trade him for a greater VALUE than it cost them. They will trade him because he will have more value to a team that DOESN'T have Tom Brady as QB than he does to a team team that DOES have him.

Hoyer could be traded...I also heard that Hoyer is openly looking for a trade with a team he can compete for a starting job at and, if he finds match, I haven't seen anything to suggest the Pats won't let him walk for a reasonable draft selection. I could see him being packaged in a trade up.

IMO Hoyer has a tonne more value than Mallett because he's at least shown a little more and thrown a few NFL passes...nice ones too.

There are a LOT of guys who have had moments of greatness on the field. You want Billy Volek to QB your team. I didn't think so, but he's had many more productive moments than Bryan Hoyer....and he currently doesn't have an NFL job. We can all name a dozen QB's who fit the Volek profile

Jake Dellhomme led to a team to the superbowl and for a half was every bit as good in the biggest game of the year as our own HOF QB. Raise your hand if you want Jake Delllhomme to be your QB. Brian Hoyer was an UDfA and has NONE of the kind of flashes that even Dellhomme or Volek have had to date. Even now, at best, he would be viewed as the kind of QB who can be a "competent manager" of an offense, but not a guy who can "carry" at team Mallet on the other hand, DOES have the "potential" to be that guy. Thus even though NEITHER has done anything to date on the field to justify great value, its the PERCEPTION of potential that make Mallet more valuable in another team's eyes.

Mallet on the other hand

 

[Off The Grid]

A couple of questions on Mallet based on a couple of your posts

1. What has Mallet done in the last 12 months that allows you to be so down on him? Please explain.

2. In the quote above you still have answered the questions I asked originally, Is Mallet a better QB prospect right now than Weeden, or Oswieler? Do you think Weeden or Oswieler will be picked in the 2nd round. And finally, If were a team that had made the decision to pick a QB up in the 2nd round, who would you want Weeden, Osweiler, or Mallet? I look forward to your succinct responses to these questions

1 ~ Absolutely nothing. My disdain for'm is based entirely on his behavior prior to the draft. It's fair enough to suggest that he hasn't added to that in the last 12 months, but that's hardly evidence enough to persuade me that he isn't still trouble waiting to happen.

2 ~ No offense, but reread your own post, my friend: You didn't ask that question. You asked a theoretical, based on an assumption, without asking me if I agreed with the assumption.

3 ~ I think Weeden is a better Prospect than Mallett. I'm no fan of Osweiler, but I'd rather deal with him than Mallett. As a QuarterBack, I think there is much to recommend Mallett. My objections are based entirely on my perception of his personality, one which I'll always be open to amending in the future.

4 ~ Easy answer: Weeden. Mallett, I wouldn't even spend a 7th on, right now.

I look forward to your response, Brother Ken. We disagree on this, obviously, but it's a useful and intriguing discussion. Mallett is a fascinating case, and I don't mind saying that I hope he ultimately overcomes his issues and evolves into a great back up QB who we ultimately trade for a King's Ransom.

 

[Off The Grid]

I think your personal bias, which you haven't explained yet (at least to me) is swaying your logic. Let me rephrase the question

If you were a team who had decided they are going to spend 2nd round pick on a QB, which QB would you choose. Weeden, Oswieler or Mallet...or some other QB

Any 4 year old understands that disagreement doesn't necessarily suggest bias.

You really shouldn't've needed me to explain that to you.

Please do me the fundamental courtesy of abstaining from accusing me of that.

 

[JackBauer]

Then you are obviously missing the point because the reason the Pats drafted Mallet WAS to trade him. Do you really think that Mallet is going to actually get on the field in the next 3 years, barring a major injury to Brady??? Drafting Mallet ONLY works if Brady goes down and Mallet is the back up. What exactly is the value of drafting a QB THAT high who is going to sit for 4 years.

1.) Unless you're telepathic, there's no possible way you could know this.

2.) Mallett will play if and when he shows he can play at a higher level than Brady. Aaron Rodgers rode pine for three seasons, so it's not like this is unprecedented, by any means.

Now I'm pretty agnostic as to whether Mallett is the future at QB or not, and your alternative prediction of events could foretell how it will actually unfold. However, at this point you are making categorical statements on the basis of facts not in evidence.

If Mallett does turn out to be "that guy," I want him quarterbacking my team. Not one of the other 31 teams in the league.

 

[JackBauer]

1 ~ Absolutely nothing. My disdain for'm is based entirely on his behavior prior to the draft.

What behavior, specifically?

 

[UK_Pat37]

Then you are obviously missing the point because the reason the Pats drafted Mallet WAS to trade him. Do you really think that Mallet is going to actually get on the field in the next 3 years, barring a major injury to Brady??? Drafting Mallet ONLY works if Brady goes down and Mallet is the back up. What exactly is the value of drafting a QB THAT high who is going to sit for 4 years. It would make the pick as bad as the OConnell one. NO! UK, the point is that he WAS drafted as future trade bait.

They aren't trying to get rid of him because they don't like him as a football player. They will try to trade him for a greater VALUE than it cost them. They will trade him because he will have more value to a team that DOESN'T have Tom Brady as QB than he does to a team team that DOES have him.

There are a LOT of guys who have had moments of greatness on the field. You want Billy Volek to QB your team. I didn't think so, but he's had many more productive moments than Bryan Hoyer....and he currently doesn't have an NFL job. We can all name a dozen QB's who fit the Volek profile

Jake Dellhomme led to a team to the superbowl and for a half was every bit as good in the biggest game of the year as our own HOF QB. Raise your hand if you want Jake Delllhomme to be your QB. Brian Hoyer was an UDfA and has NONE of the kind of flashes that even Dellhomme or Volek have had to date. Even now, at best, he would be viewed as the kind of QB who can be a "competent manager" of an offense, but not a guy who can "carry" at team Mallet on the other hand, DOES have the "potential" to be that guy. Thus even though NEITHER has done anything to date on the field to justify great value, its the PERCEPTION of potential that make Mallet more valuable in another team's eyes.

Mallet on the other hand

The Patriots did not draft him to trade him. That's utter BS and you know it. The assertion is stupid. Trading is an afterthought. They drafted Mallett because he was the number one rated QB prospect on their board according to their evaluation process and fits to their system. He fell to the 3rd round and they couldn't pass that value up.

The Pats have every intention of grooming him to be the starter of the future. They drafted him because they believed he was an NFL ready QB.

It's a similar situation with Rodgers and the Packers. Rodgers fell and fell in 2005 and the way the Packers saw it was that Favre didn't have much longer to go and they needed to groom a replacement. You don';t want Brady to retire in 2015 or wind up elsewhere and then you're having to draft a QB in the first round in the 2015 NFL Draft with no experience what-so-ever in an NFL system.

Of course Mallett is barely going to see the field in the next three years in the regular season. No shi*t Sherlock. Neither will Hoyer unless it's week 17, we have the #1 seed and/or HFA locked up and we want to rest starters for a quarter or two...which we rarely do anyway.

Simple fact is Brady will be 38 going into the 2015 season. Mallett could go into a fair few teams and start right now...I believed that when evaluating the QB prospects last season and I still believe that. Mallett with three year's development under Bill and Brady is an even scarier prospect.

The Pats have no intention what-so-ever of trading Mallett. Period. In 2015 a decision will have to be made and IMO Mallett will be the Pats starter in 2015. Brady will either retire a Patriots or wind up somewhere else for one or two more years. My betting is that, going on to 38 (especially if he gets one more ring), he'll setlle down and enjoy life. Playing on in to your 40s is pretty stupid.

If anything, he may sign on for one more year...but if Mallett develops the way I expect him to, we won't need Brady to stay on.

 

[Gronkandez]

I haven't read through all the posts so I apologize in advance if I say something that's already been discussed. Some of my thoughts are:

1) Hoyer won't be around after this year because he'll be able to get much more on the open market than the Patriots are willing to give a backup QB (IMO)

2) The Pats have plenty of draft picks, probably more than roster spots available. I think they would rather have a talented backup QB with some experience in the system with a low salary over the next few years than another draft pick, though I admit the #37 pick is good value for Mallet. Now if it was a 2013 first rounder, then we might have a deal.

 

[Off The Grid]

Grid, I'm impressed by your hatred of Mallett. While I certainly didnt want to draft him I wouldnt give him away for peanuts, please tell me, why do you hate him so much?

I don't.

But I thought drafting him was an hideous mistake.

1 ~ He commands excellent Diagnostic Acuity, but awful Processing Speed.

2 ~ He commands the Pocket Mobility of Drew Bledsoe.

3 ~ He reacts to the Pass Rush like a snail to salt.

 

[Off The Grid]

What behavior, specifically?

Now, this is interesting...

I have the distinct recollection of Mallett having been reported as blowing off not ONE interview ~ the Panthers ~ but TWO...And'f further being reliably reported as getting shattered at The Rookie Symposium, or something'f that nature...And I would've sworn I just reconfirmed my impression just DAYS ago...

Yet, when I just went on ~ a few minutes ago ~ to refresh my memory about the details, all I could find was the Panther Interview that he was allegedly sick for...Either I'm getting prematurely senile, or stuff's getting deleted.

***

All of this...gives me Paws.

***

I'm going to suspend my position on Mallett The Human Being, and rescind all my earlier defenestrations.

I was quite confident of my recollections, and am bewildered by the absence of corroboration.

But at the moment, I have no right to defenestrate the lad, based on one night of suspected idiocy.

***

However, I must say, in all fairness: I think he's a deeply flawed QuarterBack.

And I would still get rid'f'm...on General Principles, alone.

 

[patfanken]

Any 4 year old understands that disagreement doesn't necessarily suggest bias.

You really shouldn't've needed me to explain that to you.

Please do me the fundamental courtesy of abstaining from accusing me of that.

Man talking to you is like speaking to someone in code and YOU don't have the cipher. I'm TRYING to pose simple declarative questions, that only ask for simple declarative answers. Clearly I have failed, so let me try another tack. I'll try and translate your answers into something my feeble brain can understand, and all YOU have to do is tell me if I'm right.

1. Because of some perceived personality flaws, you don't see Ryan Mallet as a good QB prospect for this or any other team right now.

2. You DO however feel that without these flaws he WOULD be a great QB prospect.

3. You think Weeden, right now, is a better QB prospect for a team picking in the 2nd round than Mallet.

These just require a yes if I accurately stated your feelings, or a no with some clarification if I didn't. I'm not making judgments nor arguing against your opinion. I'm just trying to understand it. So here are a couple of direct questions to help this along.

a. How would you rate Mallet as a QB without your perceived personality flaws?
b. What exactly are those flaws. Yes I know you think he's an Ahole, but what has he done to "earn" that beyond some of the usual bad behavior done by most 18-22 year old males."?
c. What, if anything, must Mallet do in order to rehab his image, so that you can embrace him.?
d. What do YOU think the exit strategy of the Mallet pick will ultimately be?
e. IF you were comfortable with Mallet's mind set, would he THEN be a better prospect than any of QB's likely to be picked in the 2nd round?

After you answer THIS post, then I'm sure I will understand exactly where you stand and we can move on. Pardon me for my seeming obtuseness (though it did give me a chance to use the word "obtuse" which has been one of my favorite words ever since "Shawshank Redemption" came out.)

 

[Off The Grid]

Any 4 year old understands that disagreement doesn't necessarily suggest bias.

You really shouldn't've needed me to explain that to you.

Please do me the fundamental courtesy of abstaining from accusing me of that.

Man talking to you is like speaking to someone in code and YOU don't have the cipher. I'm TRYING to pose simple declarative questions, that only ask for simple declarative answers. Clearly I have failed, so let me try another tack. I'll try and translate your answers into something my feeble brain can understand, and all YOU have to do is tell me if I'm right.

1. Because of some perceived personality flaws, you don't see Ryan Mallet as a good QB prospect for this or any other team right now.

2. You DO however feel that without these flaws he WOULD be a great QB prospect.

3. You think Weeden, right now, is a better QB prospect for a team picking in the 2nd round than Mallet.

These just require a yes if I accurately stated your feelings, or a no with some clarification if I didn't. I'm not making judgments nor arguing against your opinion. I'm just trying to understand it. So here are a couple of direct questions to help this along.

a. How would you rate Mallet as a QB without your perceived personality flaws?
b. What exactly are those flaws. Yes I know you think he's an Ahole, but what has he done to "earn" that beyond some of the usual bad behavior done by most 18-22 year old males."?
c. What, if anything, must Mallet do in order to rehab his image, so that you can embrace him.?
d. What do YOU think the exit strategy of the Mallet pick will ultimately be?
e. IF you were comfortable with Mallet's mind set, would he THEN be a better prospect than any of QB's likely to be picked in the 2nd round?

After you answer THIS post, then I'm sure I will understand exactly where you stand and we can move on. Pardon me for my seeming obtuseness (though it did give me a chance to use the word "obtuse" which has been one of my favorite words ever since "Shawshank Redemption" came out.)

X ~ Brother Ken, I apologize. I have no wish to be indecipherable, though I know I often am.

1 ~ My perception of Mallett's personality flaws are up in the air, and I must confess complete bewilderment: they were based on my "recollection" that he blew off TWO interview last Spring, and that he got hammered at some additional Rookie...thing...later on. I distinctly remember reading about these things, but could not find corroboration of them, today...So now I am officially At Sea, regarding his Character...

2 ~ No, I have never bothered talking about his QuarterBacking skills, because of my perception ~ officially suspended, but still dubious ~ regarding his Character...But as a QB, I have VERY little regard for'm. I couldn't possibly care less about his Arm, though I LOVE his Accuracy...What bothers me about Mallett the QuarterBack is not his Diagnostic Acuity ~ for which I also give him excellent grades ~ but his Processing Speed and Pocket Presence, which I consider HIDEOUS.

3 ~ Yes. Absolutely.

A ~ Awful. Wouldn't drop a 7th Rounder on'm...unless I had 10'f'm.

B ~ As above, I am ~ bewilderingly ~ suspending judgment.

C ~ Regardless of which is correct ~ my recollection or that which I can corroborate, out there ~ all I would need is to start feeling ~ based on reports coming in from teammates ~ that he's being Part of the Solution, rather than simply NOT being Part of the Problem...Or 3 years of Good Behavior!!

D ~ What do I think the Exit Strategy WILL be?? Same as mine, actually, but a year or two later.

E ~ I'm afraid not. I simply don't like his Pocket Presence and detest his Processing Speed.

 

[Sfpat]

X ~ 2 ~ No, I have never bothered talking about his QuarterBacking skills, because of my perception ~ officially suspended, but still dubious ~ regarding his Character...But as a QB, I have VERY little regard for'm. I couldn't possibly care less about his Arm, though I LOVE his Accuracy...What bothers me about Mallett the QuarterBack is not his Diagnostic Acuity ~ for which I also give him excellent grades ~ but his Processing Speed and Pocket Presence, which I consider HIDEOUS.

OTG, I appreciate your knowledge but I seem to remember that one of Mallet's greatest assest WAS his pocket presence. Most reviews stated that his ability to move in the pocket was "Bradyesque" (ability to sense pressure and avoid it). We must have read opposite opinions about Mallet.

 

[Off The Grid]

After you answer THIS post, then I'm sure I will understand exactly where you stand and we can move on. Pardon me for my seeming obtuseness (though it did give me a chance to use the word "obtuse" which has been one of my favorite words ever since "Shawshank Redemption" came out.)

Addendum!! PROPS for using "obtuseness" in a sentence!! :rocker:

It joined MY vocabulary, as WELL, that fine day!!

 

[gohogs14]

Im not going to say that mallett is michael vick or anything but his pocket presence really isnt THAT bad. He was sacked the same amount of times as cam newton his last year. Now when the pressure gets there he's a sitting duck but he isn't completely immobile...heres a nice piece about it in my next post

 

[gohogs14]

Ryan Mallett under pressure « Seahawks Draft Blog

this also might be the most impressive throw ive seen him make while avoiding pressure: Razorbacks vs. Gators - 2009 - YouTube

 

[BradyBranch39]

I'm all for dealing Mallett, but I really don't think the right team is out there to deal him to. Miami would be perfect because he could sit behind moore for a year, but I don't think BB will trade him within the division.

As people have said, he's not a fit in Cleveland. None of their WRs are even good matches for him.

I think we can get a 1st rounder for him eventually, so I wouldn't be in such a rush to get a 2 this year.

 

[BradyBranch39]

this also might be the most impressive throw ive seen him make while avoiding pressure: Razorbacks vs. Gators - 2009 - YouTube

Never seen that one. Holy **** that's a Marino throw right there.

 

[manxman2601]

Never seen that one. Holy **** that's a Marino throw right there.

Think I was more impressed by Jarius Wright's block at the end of the play. good play all-round.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Never seen that one. Holy **** that's a Marino throw right there.

Jeebus. Forty yards downfield . . . on the run, with no chance to plant his feet.

That helps explain something BB said about Mallett a couple of months ago. . . . "He's made some really impressive throws in practice."