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Brady's Passing Weakness

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by livinginthe past, Nov 24, 2012.

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  1. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    As with all criticism, this must be viewed within context: Brady is without doubt one of the elite QB's in the game right now.

    I noted in another thread that Brady appears to have real trouble hitting deep routes outside the numbers - not just this season - but for awhile now.

    Some posters have been bemoaning the lack of big plays from Brandon Lloyd - well, I think alot of that is due to the fact the Brady constantly throws uncatchable balls when he goes deep and down the sideline.

    Despite a great day at the office on Thursday, Brady was 4/5 for 120 yards and 2 TD's between the numbers but only 0/6 outside the numbers on intermediate/deep routes.

    This feels like it has been a theme for quite awhile now - I never really expect Brady to hit a WR on the sideline - he tends to massively overthrow (whether that is a function of over-caution I do not know) and it is a wasted down.

    Anyone else share this opinion, or a contrary one?
     
  2. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

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    He's not great at the deep throw down the sidelines, but the only receiver he played with that could get consistent separation down the field was Moss, and he hit him in stride more often than not. Brandon Llloyd ran a 4.62 40 ten years ago at the combine, how fast do you think he is now? I challenge you to name me one quarterback who is thought to have a good long ball, that doesn't have a great deep threat receiver to throw to. Do you think it's a coincidence Manning rediscovered the deep sideline passes as soon as he had Demaryus Thomas at his disposal?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  3. robertweathers

    robertweathers Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I would agree that throwing the sideline deep ball isn't his forte. With that said, other than Moss he hasn't had a lot to work with.

    But there isn't a HoF player out there that was great at everything. I'd much rather have him be perfect on the short to mid-range throws...which he is.
     
  4. UK_Pat37

    UK_Pat37 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I would say its not so much Brady but the guys he has. Who has he had, other than Moss, who can really go up and get it? Who can burn the field? If you look at the 2007 highlights alone you would think the deep ball was his forte.

    Welker, Edelman and even Lloyd...they can't get separation down field and that has been an issue for a while now
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  5. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    RGIII is damn good with the deep ball. I don't believe he has any deep threats. Not sure Garcon counts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  6. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

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    Both Santana Moss and Pierre Garcon are way faster than every single wideout we have. Aside from that, RGIII is a running threat, the Redskins run the football a lot, and the vast majority of his throws are at or behind the line of scrimmage, so teams don't really back off on defense. He might be better at throwing deep than Brady is, but he's also in a much more favorable situation to do so.
     
  7. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's been ever since he got his knee hurt that his accuracy on the deep ball suffered. It has been an issue for some time. Not sure if it's because he's throwing the ball a little further so that only his man will catch it or not. However, with Lloyd, I'd like to see him under throw it a bit (provided that there is single coverage of course) to give Lloyd a chance to jump up and grab it.
     
  8. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Several of the deep balls Griffin has thrown have been to receiver who have been WIDE open down the field. If TFB had someone that wide open down the field he'd hit them just fine.
     
  9. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    3 INTs on the year
    On pace to lead the 2nd highest scoring team ever
    Hitting those long balls is like gravy on the stuffing. Not necessary....but tastes great.
    I'm betting a few of his mind numbingly aweful long ball INTs don't sit well in his memory bank (Gronk deep vs Giants comes to mind)
    Stretch the D on occasion, take shots, but don't get picked. He's hit the wide open guys of late (deep center) always due to busted coverage. Dropping the ball over the top to a 5'9" WR unable to get separation.......who does that without adding huge turnover risk. Brady's completion % to his giant(Gronk) of a target is ridiculously high. Hitting dwarfs 40 yds deep is a far different task.
    Thinking about the Vareen TD....Welker worked a deep slant dragging defenders with him opening up an entire left side. Those deep shots have value....maybe not until later in the game. Keep 'em honest and on their heals.
    An
     
  10. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    If anyone saw the deep pass the Welker, it was dead on the money. The problem is that Welker has absolutely no ability to snag that ball away from a defender.

    Most of these other QBs have WRs with speed that adjust to the ball. It only looks like Stafford hit Calvin Johnson on the fly, with perfect precision. In truth, Johnson has modulated his run in several different ways so that he could run under it.
     
  11. jnug

    jnug On the Game Day Roster

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    This whole thing about "Lloyd" as a deep threat is overblown. EVen before Lloyd got here those who actually knew the situation commented that Lloyd would give the Pats more of a sideline threat....not a DEEP sideline threat. Lloyd simply does not have that sort of speed and is not that kind of receiver. Although this is only a side note, Brady hit Lloyd right in stride with a deep ball down the sidelines earlier this season and Lloyd flat dropped it....right through his hands. I have also seem Brady just throw the thing in the first row down the sidelines over Lloyd but that is not an effort to hit the receiver. Brady is just throwing the ball away and chose Lloyd as the closest receiver so he would not be flagged for intentional grounding.

    Anyway I don't know how anybody can really make a relevant comment about Brady's deep ball when there are no targets for the deep ball. If I had to guess I would say it is not Brady's strong suit. On routes that the Pats receivers can actually run, Brady is extremely accurate and that includes the 20 yard out...the hardest ball in football to throw.
     
  12. jmg17

    jmg17 Rookie

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    Combination of Brady's arm (shoulder) and the receivers they have. Why bother?

    It's a finesse style passing system. And the Patriots are doing it better than

    anyone ever has. The yards after the catch stats for this team must be sick!

    The bad news for the rest of the league is this, he can continue throwing 10-15

    yard seeds for many more years if he wants too.
     
  13. PP2

    PP2 In the Starting Line-Up

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    It's quite frankly called getting old. The deep throw wasn't really the best part of his repertoire to begin with, but a 35 year old QB will rarely throw as far as a 25 year old. Not after 25,000 something reps over the years and even then that is a wild guess on my part.

    However, the most important thing is that his desire is as burning as it was when he first took over, and if you have that, anything is possible.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  14. serifyn

    serifyn Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    This has been a short to intermediate pass team for years now for a reason, Brady cant make all of the throws consistently anymore.

    Brady's weakness is hitting the sideline over the shoulder pass, we've all seen it each week, him missing this pass often.

    Brady is still one of the best minds in the game, he knows what defenses are trying to do to him and rarely turns the ball over. turnover differential is what makes this team good, almost every year now the patriots are at the top (or at least around the top) of the league in terms of turnover differential.

    The Patriots defense hasn't been fantastic for a number of years, yet they have a nose for the ball and tend to average 2-4 turnsovers per game. When your offense is as potent as ours is and you almost never turn the ball over, it results in continued success.

    Brady's offense is the epitome of 'taking what the defense gives you' and with so many weapons (even more now than we had previously believed) it is not difficult to quickly read and react to the holes.

    Welker, Lloyd, and Branch have all shown the ability to adjust their route, meaning that if Brady gets enough time, he will almost always have an open man eventually.

    The Patriots are the best team in the NFL offensively now due in large part to the emergence of their rushing attack and if their defense continues to show up each week, the Patriots should go deep into the playoffs once again.
     
  15. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This 100%. Especially the "trying to hit dwarfs 40 yds deep" part.

    The folks writing the "getting old" meme seem to be forgetting to WHOM he's trying to throw bombs.

    And while they're trying to say it's all about his age, let me ask this: How many elderly QB's take as many QB sneaks as Brady does? How many elderly QB's dives over a pile in the EZ with his spine exposed to Ray Lewis?

    The age thing is baloney.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  16. Raymond

    Raymond Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Brady seems to miss most every one.

    The Pats don't have the speedsters to use the long ball.

    Clearly, for this reason, they don't practice it much any more.

    I'm OK with the #1 offense playing that way.
     
  17. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I'm hoping Jeff Demps could help out in this area, TFB could just throw it way deep, too far out for the defender, and just let Demps go for it.
     
  18. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    Lol...

    RGIII is 1 for 12 with 1 TD on passes thrown greater than 30 yards.

    Brady is 3 for 12 with 1 TD on passes thrown greater than 30 yards.

    Its the receivers. Given the lack of a receiver with true down field capabilities Brady can't risk throwing it short, which is a problem he didn't have with Moss. He could throw it a little short and Moss could go up and get it.
     
  19. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

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    Demps is like 4'2, I don't think he'll be getting many deep balls thrown his way.
     
  20. jnug

    jnug On the Game Day Roster

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    A ridiculously high percentage of deep balls in the NFL are completed by the QB waiting for the WR to show that he is going to clear the defense (meaning run a successful route) and establish a course down the field. The QB simply throws it as far as he can with enough air under the ball to allow the receiver to go and get it. If you took those throws and catches out of the total number of deep balls completed in the NFL, the remaining completions would likely be somewhere under 50%, maybe well under 50%.

    How many receivers do the Pats have at this point that can chase down a ball thrown like that? At a guess I am going to say that the number is......0.
     
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