Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Va_Pats_Fan, Dec 16, 2007.
Could this be a problem?
I dont know about a problem , but he missed several wide open guys today forcing the ball to Moss.
Lets hope this is his real stinker game of the season , and he bounces back next week.
Obv he will.
For a team that studies as much film as the Pats, I am surprised Brady hasn't self diagnosed this tendency and started to go back to how he spread things around when he had less talented receivers.
I understand stats show that he's spreading it around, but watching the games it's obvious that he goes through stretches of trying to force the ball to Moss.
It's like there's an inverse relationship to the # of catches Moss gets, and the salary he'll play for next year.
I have been thinking about this for a few weeks now as he seems to be forcing some plays there.
It's hard not too when Moss makes such great catches.
Not if he catches the ball, or keeps someone on the wrong side from catching it - particularly in the area of the EZ. Moss against single coverage is the best case matchup they are going for. The JETS weren't only getting pressure today, they were covering receivers pretty well. I know guys sometimes look more open on the TV feed than they actually are, but defenders can close aweful fast. Didn't help that other WR's had some drops and miscommunications. When push is coming to shove, Brady will go to Moss, Welker, Watson and one of the other two or the backup TE, in about that order. We lost Watson apparently in practice, and Kyle Brady apparently went out and was replaced by some guy Brady knows as well as I do, which is not at all. As good as Gaffney has looked lately, he was not that trustworthy today.
That's why I kinda thought they might have activated Troy today, for his surehandedness and savvy in the return game and in a pinch. But they didn't.
Two outcomes occur when Brady zones in on Moss
1. Moss catches the ball
2. The other team has to move an extra DB over to stop him (thus opening up one of the other receivers)
It has already been a problem in several games this year although it hasn't cost us yet because of our defense/special teams.
Brady is obsessed both with throwing to Moss and also with throwing long and I think the latter is a bigger problem. In the Indy game, the Ravens game and again today, he has ignored open receivers underneath to either force the ball deep or hold on, hoping that a receiver would come open deep. His actions are primarily responsible for the inefficiency of our offense in the last two games, particularly on third downs. Another Manning trait that Brady has acquired is the staring down of receivers. I don't recall the last time I've seen Brady look a DB off. This also hurts our passing game.
If Brady doesn't get out of this habit soon, it will cost us against the Colts who are successful ONLY because they take away the long stuff and rely on their speed/tackling to stop teams. You can pass and run easily on the Colts if you take what they give you but if Brady refuses to do it, then we will be screwed in the playoffs.
If only we had Marc Bulger......
please...no one was complaining about Brady last week. It was crappy weather...that is all.
PS...Welker has more receptions than moss. Should he stop looking his way too?
I would characterize it as being selectively aggressive. I assume you are all talking about the play where Brady threw it to Moss in the end zone despite having two other recievers open.
I think that when you throw the ball to Moss one on one, you can pretty much guarantee that an interception will not be Moss' fault (barring a freak play). This was a game where points were at a premium, and tossing it up to Moss with an OK chance at a touchdown and a small chance at an interception (this is my opinion, not fact) is an alright play to make.
The one in the endzone was a great play by Poteat. I was more concerned with the interception, and a couple of times that he stared him down the whole sideline. It wasn't just this game, been seeing it for a few now. In good weather its probably ok. But like someone else said, at times he seems to of forgot his underneath stuff..move the chains.
I don't buy the weather angle. But, I'm glad we got the crappy weather and the win for upcoming games. Weather could get worse.
I think the Welker comment misses the point. The passes to WW are a different animal. The passes to Moss that slightly worry me are the ones where TB has lots of time and watches Moss the whole time and when there is pressure, TB launches it downfield to a double-covered Moss, never looking at anyone else.
BTW, that was another great catch by Moss falling down.
No passing TDs
No Moss TD
hindsight is 20/20. There wasn't a problem when Moss was racking in catches in double and triple coverage. Moss doesn't have a monster game and now there's a problem with Brady focusing on Moss? I don't think so.
Remember who we are talking about here, Tom Brady. If we lose a game in the playoffs, it most likely will not be because of him.
Yes, It is a big problem for opposing defenses.
Just look at how we DESTROYED Indy after this happened.
I brought this up a while back and think it is a problem. The telecast showed Brady trying to force it to Moss when several others were open...
Ok, everyone keep worrying about it and the rest of us can have a party if and when they go 19-0.
Probably a big factor in all our losses, eh Einstein?
I think he needs to tweak the mix a little. Passing to a wide-open guy is probably a higher-percentage play right now than some of his throws to Moss, although even an open guy can drop something.
The Patriots have 6 players with over 30 catches.
Moss is the guy other teams fear. Other teams would love for us to use him as a decoy, which he has been in recent games.
Usually winners do what the other team doesn't want you to. To keep the biggest big play threat in football alive, you have to throw to him.
We scored twice as much as them, and led from start to finish. Maybe they know what they're doing.
Brady should always throw to an open reciever if there is one. It's just the smarter football play. If there isn't one, I don't have a problem with him throwing to Moss because he has the best chance to make a play even if covered.
In the past when Brady was really having problems, he would normally throw four interceptions in a game not just one.
I agree with this. I think he did throw to Moss maybe 2 times when he shouldn't have today. But one of those was when he had pressure coming, and needed to unload. I think Brady subscribes to your thinking as well.
Lets be clear, that no one was helping brady out today. There were a few drops, and it just looked like he should go to the guy with the best hands. And as "bad" as Brady played, that Welker pass in the 4th quarter was a thing of beauty. Yell at him for the bad throws, but you have to praise him equally for the unbelieveable plays.
This is definitely a fair question, and the glib "oh yeah, look how many games we've lost because of it" responses are stupid. It's an issue, but certainly an understandable one. Moss is SUCH an immense talent, throwing to him in double coverage is often a better bet than throwing to someone else single covered (or even wide open!) But not usually. It was somewhat pronounced today--it was, gasp, a bad game by Brady.
Interestingly, this was bad in the way Manning has been bad in the past. Looking too much for the deep ball, forcing things, etc. But they won. Next week will be better.
Wide open? That going way to far.
I agree with you, this was probably Brady's worst game stats wise since Miami in 04 just thinking off the top of my head. I think the conditions had a lot to do with it but he looked out of sync. I was bemoaning this to my TV set when he made the Welker play and I said to myself "and then he makes a play like that." We as a fan base are so lucky to be able to watch one of the greatest QBs of all time who even when he is struggling is able to make great plays that very few other QBs could make.
On 1st down let's say you have 2 options. Throw to an open guy for a 5 yard gain or throw to a somewhat covered Moss at a decent percentage chance for 40+ yards or even a TD. Also the effect it can have on a defense etc... Yes there are times you want to throw to a covered Moss even if there may be someone else open.
It's also a little harder to tell if someone is "wide open" by the tv broadcast than by what Brady sees.
We'd have a helluva lot less points if Brady never threw to a "covered" Moss, that is for damn sure.
You forgot about last year .........................
Of course--just a lighthearted remark.
Brady is forcing throws to Moss.
Some homers here will not see this as Brady is God in their eyes.
Brady will work through this. He and Moss are close to breaking some NFL records, lets not forget that. Belichick will have Brady watch some film this week
I agree Brady will see what he is doing and fix it. He always does.
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