Brady vs. Manning

[ColtsTroll]

Well, with the dominating style of play they're putting out on gameday, they seem to be proving that they really didn't need to break the rule. And that the use of the film was for studying the next time the teams met. it was just a bad call by Belichick to have the guy out in the open, because all teams plant a guy in the press box or wherever.

But that's fine, the crap the media, and most importantly, the rest of the league and their fans are throwing seems to provide just the right motivation they need to prove em all wrong.

Us Against The World. That mentality has done wonders fro them in the past, it just may get them their 4th Superbowl in 7 years now too.

I actually agree with you. But you fail to mention what it is they were "studying" for the next meetings, namely the opposing team's defensive signals.

I agree that Belichick probably didn't need to do this, and that most teams probably try to decipher signals via lip readers or other acceptable means. Why Belichick felt the need to tarnish his franchise image with this move is beyond me.

But you're right, it does create an us-against-the-world mentality that will probably only fuel the team's drive. So you got that going for yourself.

As far as the 4th super bowl in 7 years.... let's just say there's a team in Indy that you haven't been able to beat in 3 years that would beg to differ.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

3>1.

Also, their respective playoff records are good, but Brady's is astronomical. No one is better than Brady.

 

[Imperator]

I actually agree with you. But you fail to mention what it is they were "studying" for the next meetings, namely the opposing team's defensive signals.

I agree that Belichick probably didn't need to do this, and that most teams probably try to decipher signals via lip readers or other acceptable means. Why Belichick felt the need to tarnish his franchise image with this move is beyond me.

But you're right, it does create an us-against-the-world mentality that will probably only fuel the team's drive. So you got that going for yourself.

As far as the 4th super bowl in 7 years.... let's just say there's a team in Indy that you haven't been able to beat in 3 years that would beg to differ.

Well, considering that most teams change their signals from week to week or at the very most, month to month, I'd have to say it would be pretty useless to JUST be looking for the signals. if i were to guess, he was studying the mannerisms of the coaches as well. a coach may get jittery and do something he doesn't normaly do when making a cartain gutsy call or something.

As for that team in Indy, well, we'll see where they and this team in New England stand come November 4th

 

[Real World]

Colts haven't been found guilty of anything, all pure speculation by opposing coaches. The temperature thing, if true, affects both teams so that's just silly. The noise is a by-product of playing in a small dome--it's called home-field advantage for a reason.

THe pats however, well, you guys have been found guilty of cheating and fined accordingly. Public humiliation galore.

But don't let those facts stand in the way of your argument...

Why are you here?

 

[ColtsTroll]

Why are you here?

Why are any of us here?

 

[onegameatatime]

What's amazing about Brady is how much he's gotten out of what he had. 2001 SB -- Troy Brown, David Patten, Jermaine Wiggins, and Antowain Smith. That about says it all.

Didn't CHFF show that Brady had slightly better numners than Manning indoors and outdoors, with Manning having many more games indoors?

I normally would not care about stats, but I do think Brady deserves some credit. I'd heard a number of people saying things like "now that he has the talent, what will the excuse be?" (i.e., for not putting up big stats). Looks like there is no need for excuses.

 

[speakdogg]

They are both good - Manning is legit now that he has a ring. Brady will prove to be greater in the end though.

 

[JoeSixPat]

It's impossible to compare the two at this point - we know that Manning has always had the best WR corps, and the best WR that Brady has had before Moss was Troy Brown (no offense to Troy - I love you, but, well)

Additionally, as I was often reminded last year, it was very very wrong of me to criticize our WR corps last year - as many proved statistcially that they were as good as any other year - and that I needed to give the new WRs time to learn the offense and develop their timing with Brady, at least until the middle of the season.

So based on that logic, Welker and Moss should be given more time as they obviously cannot have developed timing with Brady yet or really learned the offense.

So let's go easy on Moss and Welker for now, recognizing that they're really not fully up to speed with Brady and the offensive scheme just yet

I'm confident that by midseason they'll begin to really mesh with their QB

 

[everlong]

^^^

So Branch was a scrub? You Pats fans slay me

Is he as good as your #2 receiver?

 

[everlong]

Our top 2 receivers are top 5 in the league so no.

Thanks you made my point.

 

[JoeSixPat]

^^^

So Branch was a scrub? You Pats fans slay me

Here's a Trivia challenge for you Monsieur Smartypants -

Q: Who was thge last Patriots WR to play a full season with Brady and gain more than 1000 receiving yards in a season?

A: Trick question - it's never happened. Troy Brown broke 1000 yards in 2001 but Brady wasn't QB for the full season. Troy wasn't even a deep threat - averaging 12 yards per catch.

Branch has NEVER caught more than 1000 yards passing - and wasn't a deep threat either.

And as everyone in New England can attest, having a true deep threat REALLY opens up the passing game, making it look far too easy.

In other words, Brady isn't necessarilly better this year than he has been in previous years - he just has much much better weapons. Nor do Manning's excellent WRs mean that he's a better QB.

But yes, I think every Patriot fan will admit that Indy's traditionally invested a lot into their WRs and it finally paid off last season. Note that over the years, where Brady's never had a 1000 yard receiver, last season alone Manning had 2, and the year before that Harrison and Wayne eclipsed 1000 too - and he had 3 in 2004 (Stokely, Harrison & Wayne) go over 1000 yards.

2001 - 2003 were lean years with just Harrison gaining about 1300 yards each season.

So if we're comparing apples to apples, recognizing that both Manning and Brady are elite QBs - but comparing their weapons, Manning's had a cumulative total of 12 WRs catchin in excess of 1000 yards - where as Brady has NEVER had a full season with a 1000 yard WR.

So don't you delude yourself that Reche Caldwell would have caught 1000 yards if Manning was his QB, or that the Patriots have ever had anything remotely similar to the Colts WRs. It simply wasn't a salary cap priority - and who can argue with the results in 3 Super Bowl Championships... this year is really no different as we didn't pay a lot for any of our WRs again.

 

[stinkypete]

Brady and Manning will both retire among the 5 greatest of all time.

 

[bungholio]

Both QB's are insane. Brady and Manning will always be mentioned in the same breath when this era of the NFL is considered into history, and both will be HOF QB's.
I am with the crowd that thinks that Manning is technically better, but also in the firm belief that your legacy is judged by Championshiop wins.
I'd rather be Brady than Manning.
Gaudy numbers mean **** unless they are equally insane, just ask Dan Marino.
And hopefully Carson Palmer can enter this discussion soon, too.
I guess you have to include Ben rothlisberger in this discussion, although I believe that the HOF voters are firmly against wiggers at this point...

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

98-03 were the years where Harrison was all we had, we couldn't find a #2 and in 01-03 Reggie was still trying to learn the offense, ppl make it seem like we were deep at receiver for all those years. Yes we had James at RB but he was always worn out by the playoffs, we became a better team when we had a two man running attack. Any who, since Reggie has become a legit #2 we've won one ring in 3 seasons should have been two if you count '05.

With Brady he has done his best with good receivers, they were underrated in my view. The way Brady moves in the pocket buys his receivers more time to get open. People say Brady makes stars out of his receivers, well not really if i had a QB who could buy extra time i could make a corner lose me too. That game against the Jets Brady could stay in the pocket for 10 second and no one would touch him, and if you give any pro receiver that much time he will get open and Brady will hit him.

Both are legendary QB's, but the hate Manning gets on this board is sad. It's funny that you can recognize your QB is great but because someone wears a different jersey you (not you personally) cannot notice that. I'm enjoying the rivalry and I do hate the Pats but i can see both QB's are great. Brady has just had the better team over the years, but not in the last 3.

Here's a clue for you. Create an account at colts.com. Pretend to be a pats fan. Claim Brady is better than Manning. See how much love that gets you.

 

[FSUPatsFan]

Both QB's are insane. Brady and Manning will always be mentioned in the same breath when this era of the NFL is considered into history, and both will be HOF QB's.
I am with the crowd that thinks that Manning is technically better, but also in the firm belief that your legacy is judged by Championshiop wins.
I'd rather be Brady than Manning.
Gaudy numbers mean **** unless they are equally insane, just ask Dan Marino.
And hopefully Carson Palmer can enter this discussion soon, too.
I guess you have to include Ben rothlisberger in this discussion, although I believe that the HOF voters are firmly against wiggers at this point...

In my opinion, Brady and Manning will go down as the top 2 quarterbacks of all time when its all said and done. I disagree with you that Manning is technically better. I would argue that both Brady and Palmer have better fundamentals and technique than Manning. By no means am I saying that this makes Manning a worse QB. I believe Manning is much better at making adjustments to defenses and is probably slightly more accurate, although with how accurate Brady has been this year, I'm reserving the right to change my mind.

It will be interesting to see how Brady's stats are the next few years if he has a solid group of WRs. It will also be interesting to see how well Peyton Manning does should he ever be without elite recievers.

I would hope that both Patriots and Colts fans can recognize that we are lucky to be fans of teams with maybe the two greatest quarterbacks of all time. We are truly lucky to be a part of the greatest rivalry of this generation.

I honestly hope that Brady and Manning go into the HOF together.

 

[Deus Irae]

In my opinion, Brady and Manning will go down as the top 2 quarterbacks of all time when its all said and done. I disagree with you that Manning is technically better. I would argue that both Brady and Palmer have better fundamentals and technique than Manning. By no means am I saying that this makes Manning a worse QB. I believe Manning is much better at making adjustments to defenses and is probably slightly more accurate, although with how accurate Brady has been this year, I'm reserving the right to change my mind.

It will be interesting to see how Brady's stats are the next few years if he has a solid group of WRs. It will also be interesting to see how well Peyton Manning does should he ever be without elite recievers.

I would hope that both Patriots and Colts fans can recognize that we are lucky to be fans of teams with maybe the two greatest quarterbacks of all time. We are truly lucky to be a part of the greatest rivalry of this generation.

I honestly hope that Brady and Manning go into the HOF together.

Just off the top of my head, I come up with more than 5 QB's better than Manning in about 3 seconds:

Unitas
Montana
Brady
Elway
Starr
Tarkenton



I would then put others like Favre, Marino and Staubach in the class with Manning, with a marginal nod to Staubach as the leader of this group. I don't have enough knowledge about other early greats like Tittle and Graham to really evaluate them fairly. I'm sure I'm missing players who belong in this group or just below, but this was a quick reflection.

 

[FSUPatsFan]

Just off the top of my head, I come up with more than 5 QB's better than Manning in about 3 seconds:

Unitas
Montana
Brady
Elway
Starr
Tarkenton



I would then put others like Favre, Marino and Staubach in the class with Manning, with a marginal nod to Staubach as the leader of this group. I don't have enough knowledge about other early greats like Tittle and Graham to really evaluate them fairly. I'm sure I'm missing players who belong in this group or just below, but this was a quick reflection.

I don't really understand your logic. Manning is far and away better than both Tarkenton and Unitas. Elway's career passer rating is under 80. In my opinion Brady, Montana, and Manning are all in one class and then there's everyone else. I think Favre is a great player, but a little overrated.

 

[nukin]

Brady VS Manning: Three weeks in.

Tom Brady so far leads in... everything! Only three weeks in, but heres to going 16 weeks above Peyton :eat1:

 

[SVN]

Re: Brady VS Manning: Three weeks in.

who cares? When brady was winning SB's and manning was not , we were saying we dont care about stats , only wins. Now we start comparing him after 3 games. Iam sure if manning ends up with better stats , we will say stats dont matter-which would be true then and true now.

 

[nukin]

Re: Brady VS Manning: Three weeks in.

who cares? When brady was winning SB's and manning was not , we were saying we dont care about stats , only wins. Now we start comparing him after 3 games. Iam sure if manning ends up with better stats , we will say stats dont matter-which would be true then and true now.

I agree the stats don't matter - only the W's, but I like to relish in the opportunity of Brady dominating Peyton statistically. Moss = Statistic Machine.