Brady ranked 4th Top Athlete of 1995 - 2015 by ESPN

[primetime]

The dictionary definition of "sport" disagrees with your assertion...

While I agree that the "golf is a game" argument is pedantic, the dictionary isn't the ultima ratio regum when it comes to the meaning of words - it's rarely even a good starting point. Definitions of words are amorphous and usually vary within contexts; it's fine to argue that golf is not a sport because the project is to attribute some meaning to the word sport and another meaning to the word game. I don't agree with the argument but the dictionary isn't really going to settle it.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

While I agree that the "golf is a game" argument is pedantic, the dictionary isn't the ultima ratio regum when it comes to the meaning of words - it's rarely even a good starting point. Definitions of words are amorphous and usually vary within contexts; it's fine to argue that golf is not a sport because the project is to attribute some meaning to the word sport and another meaning to the word game. I don't agree with the argument but the dictionary isn't really going to settle it.

The dictionary definitely helps to clarify things. For instance, I had to use the dictionary for like five words you used in that post of yours

 

[primetime]

The dictionary definitely helps to clarify things. For instance, I had to use the dictionary for like five words you used in that post of yours

Sure, it does its best job to define a single meaning and is helpful as a tool for reference. But using it in an argument misses the point that language is always open to interpretation and revision.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

In my opionin, if you've never played golf passionately, you'll never understand what it takes.

My guess is that OhExaulted1 has never done that.

Nice post.

Thanks. But seriously, golf is soooooo frustrating to play. I've tried to play it on the course, and failed miserably just about every time. And those youtube vids aren't helping LOL Couldn't imagine playing competitively in a tournament

Please go back to the Political Forum or whatever Golf forum you may be associted with and allow the regular users on this site to discuss the Professional Game of Football which is the reason why people post here.

Thank You, Patriots Fans.

Okay dude, football is the better sport to watch. But the internal pressure of golf is definitely a lot more to handle. In football, the responsibility is diffused among the team and coaching staff. In golf, it's entirely on you to succeed.

Tiger Woods doesn't play "games," he's an athlete who plays to win. And the same is true for golfers who compete with other golfers. They're not messin' around man

16 Examples Of Tiger Woods' Insane Competitiveness

 

[Kontradiction]

While I agree that the "golf is a game" argument is pedantic, the dictionary isn't the ultima ratio regum when it comes to the meaning of words - it's rarely even a good starting point. Definitions of words are amorphous and usually vary within contexts; it's fine to argue that golf is not a sport because the project is to attribute some meaning to the word sport and another meaning to the word game. I don't agree with the argument but the dictionary isn't really going to settle it.

So who is the ultimate authority on defining words, then?

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Sure, it does its best job to define a single meaning and is helpful as a tool for reference. But using it in an argument misses the point that language is always open to interpretation and revision.

This is one of the rare times when "appeal to authority" isn't a fallacy. Generally, I'd agree with you. But OhExaulted1 is clearly manipulating semantics to advance his point, and the dictionary puts him in check. KontradictioN is simply using it as a counter-argument, not as the basis of a main argument.

 

[OhExaulted1]

We should sign or draft any FA who has a an awesome golf backround. Sign Tiger Woods=Rings!!!!!!

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

We should sign or draft any FA who has a an awesome golf backround. Sign Tiger Woods=Rings!!!!!!

If a FA had an ounce of Tiger Wood's competitiveness, you best believe Belichick would sign him!

It takes more than an athletic body to make an athlete. You need to have the drive and mentality to compete and push yourself mentally. And that's what golfers do my friend...they compete, and compete hard!

Don't be fooled. Tiger might make it look easy, but it's not. Believe me man, I've tried to play four hours of golf, and left feeling drained.

 

[OhExaulted1]

This is one of the rare times when "appeal to authority" isn't a fallacy. Generally, I'd agree with you. But OhExaulted1 is clearly manipulating semantics to advance his point, and the dictionary puts him in check. KontradictioN is simply using it as a counter-argument, not as the basis of a main argument.

Chiuba, I've never heard that used as a first name. Matter of fact I've never even heard that as a last name

I'm not manipulating semantics guy. Comparing Golf to Football, Hockey, Basketball and Baseball is absurd. Even trying to compare it with Soccer or Tennis or Lacrosse or Rugby sounds ridicoulous.

IMO, and that's mine and I'll own it, Golf is a "game", not a "sport".

 

[OhExaulted1]

If a FA had an ounce of Tiger Wood's competitiveness, you best believe Belichick would sign him!

It takes more than an athletic body to make an athlete. You need to have the drive and mentality to compete and push yourself mentally. And that's what golfers do my friend...they compete, and compete hard!

Don't be fooled. Tiger might make it look easy, but it's not. Believe me man, I've tried to play four hours of golf, and left feeling drained.

Tiger Woods would never make the opening day 53 on any team. He could never compete in a competitive oranized sports atmosphere. That's no slight on him or anyone else out there that wants to use the "game" of golf to promote your "athletic" prowess. If you're good at Golf, congradulations.

You're still not an athlete, stop pretending like you are.

 

[primetime]

So who is the ultimate authority on defining words, then?

There is no ultimate objective authority (there's almost no objective authority on anything); language is constantly evolving and the meaning of words depends on context, the speaker, the listener, the writer, and so on.

The ultimate point of the sport/game debate here is an attempt to define one as somehow more worthy of esteem than the other; a sport apparently exists on a higher plane than a game. This is obviously entirely subjective. One could make the opposite argument, that certain "games" deserve higher esteem than "sports." The club of chess grandmasters is far more exclusive and than that of professional soccer players, for instance.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

I'm highjacking my own thread, but it's a great, informative and civil debate, and I'm really enjoying it. btw, the name is Nigerian!

But seriously, if we're talking about the criterion for what makes a sport or a game "athletic" then I would want to factor in competitiveness, and the drive it takes to excel. That's why sports scientist John Brenkus ranks golf as the hardest sport to play - mainly because of the degree of competition that professional golfers face in every tournament.

http://www.sporttechie.com/2013/05/...w-with-espn-sports-science-host-john-brenkus/

ST: You’ve analyzed so many different sports. Which would you say is the most physically challenging of them all?

JB: I think that there are two different answers. I think that you have, in terms of just sport to play, just, “hey let’s just get off the couch and play it”, for an average person, certainly hockey is way up there. Once you’re introducing a sport that has skating and hand eye coordination – the amount of skills that are involve, I think it’s the most difficult sport to just play.

Then the question is, which is the hardest sport to play well? Then I think the answer is probably golf; that’s the most difficult sport to play well. Think about it; there are 125 some-odd guys on the PGA Tour, and that’s in the world. So, when you’re thinking about turning professional as a golfer, you have to be one of best 100 people in the world. Those odds are just staggering.

btw, encountered the interview contains an short but interesting video on the science behind golfing. As it turns out, golf does require you to be gifted athletically, at least in this case:

 

[PatriotsReign]

Please go back to the Political Forum or whatever Golf forum you may be associted with and allow the regular users on this site to discuss the Professional Game of Football which is the reason why people post here.

Thank You, Patriots Fans.

Hahaha!! Good come back.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Thanks. But seriously, golf is soooooo frustrating to play. I've tried to play it on the course, and failed miserably just about every time. And those youtube vids aren't helping LOL Couldn't imagine playing competitively in a tournament



Okay dude, football is the better sport to watch. But the internal pressure of golf is definitely a lot more to handle. In football, the responsibility is diffused among the team and coaching staff. In golf, it's entirely on you to succeed.

Tiger Woods doesn't play "games," he's an athlete who plays to win. And the same is true for golfers who compete with other golfers. They're not messin' around man

16 Examples Of Tiger Woods' Insane Competitiveness

I like your honesty! My younger brother and I started to sneak our dad's clubs out of the garage and we'd go down to a field and hit his crappy beat up old balls when I was around 9 or 10 years old. We both watched Nicholas and Palmer because our dad liked to watch golf.

My father took us to a driving range shortly after a few times. At the age of 15, I spent a summer at Hyannisport Club caddying. They had a caddy camp where the kids stayed in barracks right on the golf course and we got to play as many holes as we could fit in each night before the sun came down.

But after that, I didn't play much until I got out of college. Honestly, I rarely broke 100 in my 20's unless "I didn't count" a few shots! Long story short, I got messed up on alcohol & drugs and got sober at the age of 31 and became fanatical about golf. I took lessons and practiced my arse off every week. By the end of that summer, I broke 80! My lowest score is 75 but it was on a fairly easy course. I also broke 80 at a few tough courses but I consider my best round an 81 at Foxboro CC. I learned to play by the rules and I'd never take preferred lies either on the fairway or in the rough and it made me so much better.

As I went through my 40's and now in my mid 50's, I don't play or practice as much so I'm happy just breaking 90. I've been working out very hard this winter because I'd like to get back to being a 9-10 handicap golfer...we'll see how that works out!

Bottom line is that very few can get good without being dedicated and practicing.

 

[Deus Irae]

So who is the ultimate authority on defining words, then?

The dictionary, modified by slang that is temporarily in vogue, is as close as it gets in the U.S. We don't have a system in place that's as involved as that of France.

 

[PatriotsReign]

We should sign or draft any FA who has a an awesome golf backround. Sign Tiger Woods=Rings!!!!!!

Had Tiger Woods chosen another sport, I'd bet the house he would have made it to the highest level. You can bet that none of us here on this forum is as dedicated to whatever we do for a living as Tiger is.

 

[primetime]

Golf, at a high level, requires a singular level of body control. Athleticism is another one of those concepts that's difficult to define, but body control certainly has to play some role.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Had Tiger Woods chosen another sport, I'd bet the house he would have made it to the highest level. You can bet that none of us here on this forum is as dedicated to whatever we do for a living as Tiger is.

He would have been lucky to make the Practice squad, where the Greatest coach of all time would have cut him.

What is it with you "Tiger Woods is so awesome it's beyond comprehension" guys? He swings a tailor made stainless steel club at an unmoving object sitting on a tailored made stand with no time limit and no-one trying to stop him.

What an incredible "athlete"! Are you $hitin" me? Seriously?

 

[primetime]

He would have been lucky to make the Practice squad, where the Greatest coach of all time would have cut him.

What is it with you "Tiger Woods is so awesome it's beyond comprehension" guys? He swings a tailor made stainless steel club at an unmoving object sitting on a tailored made stand with no time limit and no-one trying to stop him.

What an incredible "athlete"! Are you $hitin" me? Seriously?

Because anyone who has tried golf even once understands how difficult it is to make a single good shot, let alone good shot after good shot, enough to beat the best players in the world consistently year after year.

You could make the same argument with football, for example offensive linemen: this disgustingly fat guy get in the way of this other fat guy for 3 seconds at a time, what an incredible athlete.

Obviously being an offensive lineman is substantially more difficult than that but when your argument is thoroughly reductionist...

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Bottom line is that very few can get good without being dedicated and practicing.

Gee PR, thanks for the encouragement! Definitely wanna keep practicing working on my club game.

He would have been lucky to make the Practice squad, where the Greatest coach of all time would have cut him.

What is it with you "Tiger Woods is so awesome it's beyond comprehension" guys? He swings a tailor made stainless steel club at an unmoving object sitting on a tailored made stand with no time limit and no-one trying to stop him.

What an incredible "athlete"! Are you $hitin" me? Seriously?

How can I intimidate Tiger Woods? I mean, the guy's got 75 or whatever PGA Tour wins, 14 majors. He's been the biggest thing ever in our sport. How could some little 23-year-old from Northern Ireland with a few wins come up and intimidate him.
Rory McIlroy

I met Tiger Woods, and I looked in his eyes - and I saw Derek Jeter. They don't have to tell people they're good. They just prove it by the way they love the competition.
Joe Torre

Tiger Woods makes me a better athlete.
Lindsey Vonn

If Tiger Woods had played football, he would have been a quarterback.
Lou Holtz

List of career achievements by Tiger Woods....don't disrespect the Legend