Brady & Manning against common opponents

[theQB]

So Marino is better than Montana?

Could very well be

 

[sieglo]

Brady has him moments, but overall, Peyton is on a whole different, higher level.

Indeed, his commercials are funnier than Brady's.

 

[GroganCountry]

anyone notice something about these stats? Notice how the word "regular" is missing. Im pretty sure most of the Pats fans on these boards are willing to call Manning the greatest regular season QB of all time. Unfortunatly, his play does not transfer into the post season. Which is the difference between Manning and Brady.

And onther thing, after all the stats you just mentioned, the difference in Mannings and Brady career QB rating is around 1.5 points. So in terms of efficiency, their stats are nearly identical. Also, Manning has played 4 more season then Brady. Of course his averall totals are going to be higher. If this was Manning last year and Brady played the next four season with the talent Manning had throughout his career, those numbers would be alot closer.

Brady:
-0 seasons with more then 14 ints
-0 one and done post seasons
-0 individual post season games with a game rating of under 40
-1 individual post season games with 0 td passes

Manning:
-6 seasons with more then 15 ints
-6 one and done post seasons
-3 individual post season games with a game rating of under 40
-4 individual post season games with 0 td passes

Great post. Funny how Indy fans don't see this...but why let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

 

[BradyFixesEverything]

Reason #1 why Brady is better then Manning:

Brady doesn't have a Manning Face.

 

[Jetssuck]

Could very well be

Could? By the standards you apply to the Manning and Brady debate that regular season stats are more important than postseason stats, Marino is better than Montana.

And by your same standards, Brady is better than Montana. Brady has 3 4000 yds season, Montana had not one his whole career. Brady has had 7 seasons of 20+ tds, Montana had only 6. Brady had a 50 td season, the most Montana ever had was 31.

Do you believe that Brady is better than Montana? And if not, why?

 

[TruthSeeker]

anyone notice something about these stats? Notice how the word "regular" is missing. Im pretty sure most of the Pats fans on these boards are willing to call Manning the greatest regular season QB of all time. Unfortunatly, his play does not transfer into the post season. Which is the difference between Manning and Brady.

And onther thing, after all the stats you just mentioned, the difference in Mannings and Brady career QB rating is around 1.5 points. So in terms of efficiency, their stats are nearly identical. Also, Manning has played 4 more season then Brady. Of course his averall totals are going to be higher. If this was Manning last year and Brady played the next four season with the talent Manning had throughout his career, those numbers would be alot closer.

Brady:
-0 seasons with more then 14 ints
-0 one and done post seasons
-0 individual post season games with a game rating of under 40
-1 individual post season games with 0 td passes

Manning:
-6 seasons with more then 15 ints
-6 one and done post seasons
-3 individual post season games with a game rating of under 40
-4 individual post season games with 0 td passes

Wow, that's some amazing stats you found there. That and the stats in the first post of this thread really opens your eyes and makes ya say "wow". Manning certainly has had some amazing REGULAR seasons, but he has choked when the pressure is on. Basically, Manning is an amazing REGULAR season QB, and just an above average PLAYOFF QB. Brady is a great REGULAR season QB, but is also a GREAT Playoff QB. That's the difference. Brady is money in the playoffs, Manning is so-so in the playoffs. I'll take the money QB every time. Manning can have his REGULAR season MVP's (and his BS SB MVP, didn't deserve it, Rhodes did), I'll take those SB MVP's Brady has.

I will give credit to Manning if he pulls off another SB championship this year, but he'll have to play well, unlike how he played in the SB they won. Just like Roethlisberger proved he was a playoff stud last year, let's see if Manning can prove it this year. I have my doubts, when the pressure is on, Manning seems to crumble. I do like Manning's commercials though, he's hilarious.

 

[theQB]

Could? By the standards you apply to the Manning and Brady debate that regular season stats are more important than postseason stats, Marino is better than Montana.

And by your same standards, Brady is better than Montana. Brady has 3 4000 yds season, Montana had not one his whole career. Brady has had 7 seasons of 20+ tds, Montana had only 6. Brady had a 50 td season, the most Montana ever had was 31.

Do you believe that Brady is better than Montana? And if not, why?

Manning>Marino>Brady>Montana there.

 

[GroganCountry]

Manning>Marino>Brady>Montana there.

If I were a Colt fan I'd probably post the same thing. If you can't argue those previously mentioned facts, you might as well just post something trolling like this. Personally, I'll take this as your admission of surrender. Thanks for trying, hope you learned something.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Manning>Marino>Brady>Montana there.

Is that your top 4 of all time ? I wouldn't disagree with that list, might switch the order around though. The best I've ever seen is Montana. He's the most clutch QB I've ever seen, and clutch is everything (I think that's an ESPN quote).

1)Montana
2)Brady
3)Manning
4)Marino

or for the Manning lovers

1)Montana
2)Manning
3)Brady
4)Marino

Either way, great QB's, all have rings except Marino, who might have been the best PURE passer of the 4. Marino had the quickest release I've ever seen, and also did a lot with less (IMO, he made Mark Duper and Mark Clayton, not the other way around, and had virtually no running game his whole career).

Very subjective, there are stats for all ways of thinking.

 

[BradyManny]

Manning>Marino>Brady>Montana there.

I guess you don't consider winning an important part of the QB's job description.

 

[Fball]

I don't think there is any doubt that Manning would have another SB or 2 if Belichek was his coach.

For that matter, if Marino had Belichek, he probably would have had 2-3 as well.

Brady will go down as the best of this era, imo, but it's pretty close, and these arguments tend to get nitpicky.

 

[redsx8827]

Look at the statistics posted by both quarterbacks in their first seven active seasons, also when Brady's team was earning his championships....

Peyton Manning: 2,464-of-3,880 (63.5%) for 29,460 yards; 216 TD passes, 120 INT's, 213 rushing attempts for 620 rushing yards, 9 rushing TD's, 38 fumbles (13 lost).

Tom Brady: 2,293-of-3,639 (63.0%) for 26,364 yards; 197 TD passes, 86 INT's, 267 rushing attempts for 533 yards, 5 rushing TD's, 65 fumbles (29 lost).

Where do you go from here stupid?

I just put those stats into a QB Rating Caclulator.

Brady's Rating: 92.97
Manning's Rating: 92.31

So, despite Brady playing a few years with awful WRs (while Manning has always had at least one pro bowler---maybe 2?)...And despite Brady going to buffalo, miami, nyj once a year PLUS playing winter games at home, HE STILL HAS A HIGHER RATING at comparable times in their careers. Oh, and he has better postseason stats AND 3x as many SB Rings.

 

[workhorse]

I didn't read this entire thread, so forgive me if this was stated.

You are basing a comparison by including two games that the Colts pulled their starters. Peyton played through most of the third quarter vs the Jets (14-21 for 192) and played 3 series vs the Bills (14-18 for 95 yards and 1 pick).

Against Miami Peyton was 14-23 for 303 yards 2 TDs and 0 picks.

Against New England Peyton was 28-44 for 327 yards 4 TDs and 2 picks.

So in meaningful games against the AFC East Peyton averaged 21 for 33 3 TDs and 1 pick.

 

[emoney_33]

I didn't read this entire thread, so forgive me if this was stated.

You are basing a comparison by including two games that the Colts pulled their starters. Peyton played through most of the third quarter vs the Jets (14-21 for 192) and played 3 series vs the Bills (14-18 for 95 yards and 1 pick).

Against Miami Peyton was 14-23 for 303 yards 2 TDs and 0 picks.

Against New England Peyton was 28-44 for 327 yards 4 TDs and 2 picks.

So in meaningful games against the AFC East Peyton averaged 21 for 33 3 TDs and 1 pick.

The Bills game wasn't counted as this post was prior to this last weekend. You are removing Peyton's stats against the #1 rated pass defense in order to distort the facts. I won't look at the last week of the season as neither team was really playing. But against the Jets the starters played hard for the first half until they were pulled I believe. No doubt Peyton and the rest of the team wanted that game.

You also can't use Peyton's stats against New England because Brady doesn't play them. This was a comparison of common opponents.

Brady = 2330 yards, 17 TDs, 4 INT, 67% completion, 107 rating
Manning = 2202 yards, 16 TDs, 8 INT, 68% completion, 100 rating

Brady versus AFC south (excluding IND):
87% completion, 647 yards, 10 TD, 0 INT

 

[BradyManny]

I didn't read this entire thread, so forgive me if this was stated.

You are basing a comparison by including two games that the Colts pulled their starters. Peyton played through most of the third quarter vs the Jets (14-21 for 192) and played 3 series vs the Bills (14-18 for 95 yards and 1 pick).

Against Miami Peyton was 14-23 for 303 yards 2 TDs and 0 picks.

Against New England Peyton was 28-44 for 327 yards 4 TDs and 2 picks.

So in meaningful games against the AFC East Peyton averaged 21 for 33 3 TDs and 1 pick.

The study was against COMMON OPPONENTS. Not a comparison of AFCE vs. AFCS, I think I made that clear when I excluded both the Patriots and Colts defense from the discussion. As Tom Brady and the Patriots offense is incapable of playing the Patriots defense in a game, Manning's stats against the Patriots are completely irrelevant for this discussion.

And FYI, what difference does it make if Peyton was pulled in the Jets game? He played over a half, that's a big enough sample size to see that he was not exactly lighting them up. And I did not even include his weak statistical performance against the Bills because it hadn't occurred yet.

You basically proved that Peyton did not perform up to his usual self against AFCE opponents outside of the Patriots. Which was my point. The Bills & Jets have elite pass defenses, Brady plays those defenses twice a year. The Jags & Titans have pathetic pass defenses, and Manning plays those defenses twice a year.

Again, look no further than the astronomical drop-off in Brees' stats against the AFCE (again, excluding New England, whose pass defense is irrelevant to the conversation). It's no wonder Football Outsiders just proclaimed Brady as having the toughest schedule for a QB in the past 17 years.

 

[workhorse]

The study was against COMMON OPPONENTS. Not a comparison of AFCE vs. AFCS, I think I made that clear when I excluded both the Patriots and Colts defense from the discussion. As Tom Brady and the Patriots offense is incapable of playing the Patriots defense in a game, Manning's stats against the Patriots are completely irrelevant for this discussion.

And FYI, what difference does it make if Peyton was pulled in the Jets game? He played over a half, that's a big enough sample size to see that he was not exactly lighting them up. And I did not even include his weak statistical performance against the Bills because it hadn't occurred yet.

You basically proved that Peyton did not perform up to his usual self against AFCE opponents outside of the Patriots. Which was my point. The Bills & Jets have elite pass defenses, Brady plays those defenses twice a year. The Jags & Titans have pathetic pass defenses, and Manning plays those defenses twice a year.

Again, look no further than the astronomical drop-off in Brees' stats against the AFCE (again, excluding New England, whose pass defense is irrelevant to the conversation). It's no wonder Football Outsiders just proclaimed Brady as having the toughest schedule for a QB in the past 17 years.

My bad for skimming over the common opponents part.

You can't be serious about the Jets game. Manning's 4th quarter numbers a pretty damn good. This season he is 79 of 109 for 939 yards, 7 TDs and 1 pick with a QB rating of 116. So giving away a fourth quarter for Peyton is throwing out a lot.

 

[BradyManny]

My bad for skimming over the common opponents part.

You can't be serious about the Jets game. Manning's 4th quarter numbers a pretty damn good. This season he is 79 of 109 for 939 yards, 7 TDs and 1 pick with a QB rating of 116. So giving away a fourth quarter for Peyton is throwing out a lot.

Brady had 6 TDs in 2 and change quarter against Tennesee, can I round that up to 11 TDs for the game if he had played all four quarters? You can't cherry pick stats. Manning played what he played - he was unremarkable against the best passing defense in the league while he was in the game. Assuming that would change is not a safe assumption. No worries on the common opponents aspect, I can see why the AFCE/AFCS comparison would make it confusing.

 

[emoney_33]

My bad for skimming over the common opponents part.

You can't be serious about the Jets game. Manning's 4th quarter numbers a pretty damn good. This season he is 79 of 109 for 939 yards, 7 TDs and 1 pick with a QB rating of 116. So giving away a fourth quarter for Peyton is throwing out a lot.

We didn't throw anything away, the idiot running the team removed that data. Plus I highly doubt Peyton is coming close to those numbers against the #1 rated passing defense.

Peyton didn't play against any top pass defenses up until the Jets game. And you want to throw away the facts because he didn't get the opportunity for 1 or 2 drives in the 4th quarter against the #1 rated pass defense. In all likelihood it would have hurt his numbers more if he didn't get pulled in the 3rd.