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Brady & Mankins agree to be plaintiffs/update: lawsuit filed


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Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

Since the collective bargaining agreement stated that either side could opt out, seems to me that the owners have lived up to their part of the bargain also. That is why it is called "collective", in theory it is supposed to support both sides of the table. In practice, this one only supported the players, hence we are where we are today.

The owners made millions. Tough to make the claim that they weren't supported.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

Since the collective bargaining agreement stated that either side could opt out, seems to me that the owners have lived up to their part of the bargain also. That is why it is called "collective", in theory it is supposed to support both sides of the table. In practice, this one only supported the players, hence we are where we are today.



The owners can't decide how to split up their billions, the players simply want the deal to continue, and since the owners refuse to show their books I see no reason to believe them when they cry poor. Simply put the owners are greedy, and blaming the players for being locked out makes absolutely no sense to me.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

I would be willing to bet that most of those who blame the players are also the first to scream when a player holds out, they blame the player for not fully honoring a deal but side with the owners when they renege, pretty ironic imo.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

I would be willing to bet that most of those who blame the players are also the first to scream when a player holds out, they blame the player for not fully honoring a deal but side with the owners when they renege, pretty ironic imo.

The owners did not renege on their agreement. The agreement was structured to allow either side to op out if they felt the deal wasn't working. This is the same deal that allowed Mike Vick to keep his signing bonus after he decided to run a dog fighting ring in his spare time and to allow restrict teams from suspending players for bad consuct, ie TO in Philly.

I blame the owners for signing a bad deal the last time and I understand them wanting to reopen the contract. If it doesn't work for both sides, it doesn't work for anybody, at least that was what unions used to say. It doesn't matter if your a union hack or a ownership lackey, once one side feels like the contract isn't working for them bad things usually happen.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

I'm well aware of the opt out clause, i also know that if the players had opted out that owners would be demonizing them for wanting more and many fans would be siding with the owners and blaming the players, yet those same people support the owners when they throw the deal out and want more, but refuse to open their books to show they actually need more. The owners are greedy and what they really care about is lining their pockets, as the proposed 18 game season fully demonstrates. The fans don't want it, the players don't want it, and it will hurt the game by shortening careers, but the owners can make more cash so they demand it. I'm glad Doty leveled the playing field as his decision is what is keeping the owners at the bargaining table, as well as the threat of decertification, which the players should definitely do if the owners lock them out.

As for the claim that life would go on as is in the meantime it's simply wrong, as there is no deal and no structure to go on with. Instead what will happen is a prolonged work stoppage until the owners offer a CBA the players would be willing to agree to as a group, which is what happened the last time they decertified. The owners need to back off their attempt to crush the players and come up with a reasonable deal for all, as they are all making huge money and neither side needs to win all out at all cost.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

I have always been a loyalty guy. And Brady has been treated very well by the Patriots. I understand the pressure Brady must feel from the union, but this is like stabbing the Patriots in the back.

Sorry, allowing himself to be used after the Patriots made him the highest paid player in the league seems a little ungrateful to me. I know that he wouldn't be making as much money without the union, but he would probably be teaching Jr High School without the Patriots.

That's some very warped logic you've got going there - especially since Brady has always made it a point of voluntarily taking less from Kraft than he's actually worth on the NFL "market."

In effect Kraft has always "been treated very well" by Brady, who's allowed the Patriots to devote salary cap funds that could have - even should have - gone to him to pay for quality depth on the team instead. That depth, paid for by Brady taking less than top dollar, is what's played a key role in allowing the Patriots to be 3 time Super Bowl champions - which in turn has allowed Bob Kraft to finance a new stadium and make gobs of money marketing the team.

I doubt any of us or Brady for that matter hold any of that against Kraft - he's one of the good owners who put his own money into play for a stadium rather than relying on the taxpayers - but I highly doubt that any fan, or even Bob Kraft looks at the contracts he's given to Brady and says "I've been exceptionally generous"

I think Bob Kraft would be the first to admit that Brady's been very generous with the team.

The salary cap itself is what's forced the constraint on spending on quality depth - and with the current deal and whatever new deal is negotiated, less money for the players is going to make it MORE difficult - not less - for the team to afford a franchise QB of Brady's caliber PLUS the quality depth that this team depends upon.

Now Brady's not moaning about his contracts to be sure - and he clearly puts winning ahead of making money - unlike Manning and others. But I'd say Kraft owes Brady (and Belichick) more than Brady owes him.

The bottom line on the CBA negotiations is that your views of "loyalty" between Kraft and Brady are completely irrelevant.

The state of the NFL CBA picture has more to do with how the owners themselves split the revenues, and less about how the owners and players split up the pie. Taking back more money from the players or upping the season to 18 games is simply the owners way of avoiding taking on the issue of a better and more fair way to divide revenues among themselves.

I also doubt that Brady's testimony will focus on how HE is being treated unfairly. Chances are he'll focus on the middle tier players and note that with even more limited money those lower and middle tier guys are the ones who are going to be risking their health for considerably less while the owners, unable to address their internal division of revenues, grow richer.
 
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Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

I would be willing to bet that most of those who blame the players are also the first to scream when a player holds out, they blame the player for not fully honoring a deal but side with the owners when they renege, pretty ironic imo.

I'd hardly call using a contract provision "reneging on a deal". But then again I'm not you.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

I'd hardly call using a contract provision "reneging on a deal". But then again I'm not you.

What Towne continues to downplay if not ignore is the simple fact that the players negotiated a windfall (another $1B because previously $2B was what the old formula of DGR resulted in) back in 2006 while holding a loaded gun to the leagues head at the 11th hour. Granted the league bought them the ammo...that happens some times when you have 32 egos in competition with each other who are also business partners in a collective that shares revenue...

As someone else said earlier, bad deals don't work for long for anyone. That is why the union struck and decertified and sued and recertified between 1987 and 1993, to get a reasonable deal and free agency after a certain length of service from a generation of owners who had never dealt with it and thought it would be their downfall. It wasn't.

This is a little different. It's all about the $$$ now and the % split and whether the league or the talent is the little engine that has driven the train to a $9B+ industry. I still think it's the largely the league. Talent is transient. Had the talent gotten 90% all along for blood, sweat and tears investment, the whole operation would have been on the verge of or filed for bankrupcy ages ago, just like 78% of players sadly have within 2 years of retirement.

League wide audit records are provided to the union annually and they detail where the cost offset monies are spent. Those monies don't just get divied up and pocketed by individual owners. The union knows where that money goes. What they want to know now is what does each owner put into his pockets or into some other investment like Patriot Place which some members of the NFLPA executive committee like Mike Vrabel seem to think the players are entitled to a % of as well since it's named after a team they play on...
 
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Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

That's some very warped logic you've got going there - especially since Brady has always made it a point of voluntarily taking less from Kraft than he's actually worth on the NFL "market."

In effect Kraft has always "been treated very well" by Brady, who's allowed the Patriots to devote salary cap funds that could have - even should have - gone to him to pay for quality depth on the team instead. That depth, paid for by Brady taking less than top dollar, is what's played a key role in allowing the Patriots to be 3 time Super Bowl champions - which in turn has allowed Bob Kraft to finance a new stadium and make gobs of money marketing the team.

I doubt any of us or Brady for that matter hold any of that against Kraft - he's one of the good owners who put his own money into play for a stadium rather than relying on the taxpayers - but I highly doubt that any fan, or even Bob Kraft looks at the contracts he's given to Brady and says "I've been exceptionally generous"

I think Bob Kraft would be the first to admit that Brady's been very generous with the team.

The salary cap itself is what's forced the constraint on spending on quality depth - and with the current deal and whatever new deal is negotiated, less money for the players is going to make it MORE difficult - not less - for the team to afford a franchise QB of Brady's caliber PLUS the quality depth that this team depends upon.

Now Brady's not moaning about his contracts to be sure - and he clearly puts winning ahead of making money - unlike Manning and others. But I'd say Kraft owes Brady (and Belichick) more than Brady owes him.

The bottom line on the CBA negotiations is that your views of "loyalty" between Kraft and Brady are completely irrelevant.

The state of the NFL CBA picture has more to do with how the owners themselves split the revenues, and less about how the owners and players split up the pie. Taking back more money from the players or upping the season to 18 games is simply the owners way of avoiding taking on the issue of a better and more fair way to divide revenues among themselves.

I also doubt that Brady's testimony will focus on how HE is being treated unfairly. Chances are he'll focus on the middle tier players and note that with even more limited money those lower and middle tier guys are the ones who are going to be risking their health for considerably less while the owners, unable to address their internal division of revenues, grow richer.

This is a little revisionist history here. Brady may not have been the higest paid player in the league, but he was always in the top three when he signed his contract. He even admitted that he would take less than he probably would be able to get because he wanted the team to win and have money to spread around to the other players. You make sound like he was getting screwed by the Patriots.

As for loyalty, there is loyalty to the person who gave you your break, and there is loyalty to the organization who represents your interests with the league, then there is the loyalty to the person who deals with the Patriots to get you a new deal, then there is the loyalty to your team mates, to your wife, to your kids, to yourself. Of all of the things I just mentioned, I would put loyalty to the union just below taking a sh!t in the morning.

Brady got drafted 199. On most other teams he never would have gotten on the field, the coach never would have had the balls to replace a number 1 draft pick with a 7th round draft pick. Most teams don't work the way the Patriots work, they talk a good game but never follow through. Remember all those Mike Vick press conferences? He would show up looking like a thug, give disinterested replies to questions, and then lose on Sunday. He was the starter and nobody was even second, because the team had all that money tied up in Mike Vick. The Pats haven't worked that way since Bobby Greer left town. Because of that structure Tom Brady has become a multi-millionair, married a super model, won three rings, is considered the best QB in the league, and will probably go into the HOF.

Unions are like intestinal flu, no matter how much healthy eat, it always screws up your life. Unions cannot help it, they have been given an artificial advantage over the owners and no matter how absurd the circumstance, judges love to screw the owners. Mike Vick ruined the Falcons, ran an illegal gambling organization, killed multiple animals because they did not perform up to his vicious standards, stole neighbors dogs to train his dog to kill other dogs and was a punk of the first order, yet the courts aloowed him to keep $20,000,000 that was given to him because he represented his team.

Nah, kill the union and start over again.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

I'm not sure what revisionist history you're talking about, but if Brady demanded Peyton Manning contracts I'm questioning whether they'd have any more than one Super Bowl Ring.

I think Bob Kraft recognizes this too.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

I'm not sure what revisionist history you're talking about, but if Brady demanded Peyton Manning contracts I'm questioning whether they'd have any more than one Super Bowl Ring.

I think Bob Kraft recognizes this too.

Bob Kraft is the recipient of Brady buying into the system that the Patriots have implemented. Brady has bought into the concept that taking a little less will bebefit the team and will benefit Brady in other ways.

I don't even think they would have one championship. Brady leads by example, and by him not insisting that he be the highest paid, he sets a ceiling. He didn't have to buy into the system, but he understands it and believes that it works. That is why his involvement with this lawsuit is baffling to me. It turns him into an ungrateful complainer. Somebody who doesn't seem to understand that had a different decision been made, he would probably be out of the league by now. When the Patriots scouted that pro day they went there to scout Tim Rattay and the scout liked Brady better.

I don't know, this just rubs me the wrong way, he is allowing himself to be used.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

Brady is in an difficult situation. He needs to side with the guys he lines up with on the field and not indirectly set himself above them by declining the plaintiff position and giving the appearance he's a management shill. It's tough enough when you're the QB, leader and public face of the players when management cuts a vet for $ reasons and you spout the "it's a business" mantra as a teammate is cut without appearing to be completely in the tank for management. Brady has to do this.
 
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Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

Brady is in an difficult situation. He needs to side with the guys he lines up with on the field and not indirectly set himself above them by declining the plaintiff position and giving the appearance he's a management shill. It's tough enough when you're the QB, leader and public face of the players when management cuts a vet for $ reasons and you spout the "it's a business" mantra as a teammate is cut without appearing to be completely in the tank for management. Brady has to do this.

I understand why he is doing it, but I believe that the union is using him to create a high profile anti-NFL campaign. As for cutting teammates over finances, what would happen if your work had to downsize? I don't make $380,000 a year as a rookie, nobody will ever sign me to a contract, let alone give me a signing bonus.

I make no bones about it, I side with the owners here. It isn't like the players are getting screwed here. The owners lived up to their part of the bargain, they did what the contract said they had to do. The owners feel that they got screwed in the last CBA, the players feel that the owners got screwed in the last CBA, the public feels that the owners got screwed in the lst CBA. What is to debate? The owners do not think that the status quo works and that changes need to be made. I think that asking for $1B back is rediculous, but asking for more control over rookie salaries, asking for more control over player discipline, asking for for more control over the team overall, that can do nothing but make the sport better.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

What Towne continues to downplay if not ignore is the simple fact that the players negotiated a windfall (another $1B because previously $2B was what the old formula of DGR resulted in) back in 2006 while holding a loaded gun to the leagues head at the 11th hour. Granted the league bought them the ammo...that happens some times when you have 32 egos in competition with each other who are also business partners in a collective that shares revenue...

As someone else said earlier, bad deals don't work for long for anyone. That is why the union struck and decertified and sued and recertified between 1987 and 1993, to get a reasonable deal and free agency after a certain length of service from a generation of owners who had never dealt with it and thought it would be their downfall. It wasn't.

This is a little different. It's all about the $$$ now and the % split and whether the league or the talent is the little engine that has driven the train to a $9B+ industry. I still think it's the largely the league. Talent is transient. Had the talent gotten 90% all along for blood, sweat and tears investment, the whole operation would have been on the verge of or filed for bankrupcy ages ago, just like 78% of players sadly have within 2 years of retirement.

League wide audit records are provided to the union annually and they detail where the cost offset monies are spent. Those monies don't just get divied up and pocketed by individual owners. The union knows where that money goes. What they want to know now is what does each owner put into his pockets or into some other investment like Patriot Place which some members of the NFLPA executive committee like Mike Vrabel seem to think the players are entitled to a % of as well since it's named after a team they play on...



Actually I already acknowledged the players had gotten themselves a good deal I just don't see how that makes them the villains in this situation. The owners presented them with a deal and they took it, good for them, and it's clear that both entities are making money off of it, the owners just want to make more, and since they refuse to open their books there is no reason to believe they are in dire need, especially when they are violating the deal they made the last time by negotiating a deal with Direct TV that paid them more if there wasn't football. I'd love to see a good deal for both sides and i'd love to see football this fall but there is no doubt in my mind who the problem lies with and who will be responsible if there is no football, and it isn't the players.


Had the players struck a deal with their player management agencies to pay them more than they would otherwise make if they opted out of the deal for better terms and had a work stoppage then I guarantee all those supporting the owners would be screaming bloody murder, yet somehow when the owners do it then it's just fine with them.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

I'd hardly call using a contract provision "reneging on a deal". But then again I'm not you.


The owners agreed to share revenues with the players, then created a deal with Direct TV that would pay the owners more if there was no football. What do you call that?


The owners are stopping football because they want more, not the other way around, and if it were the other way around you would no doubt be screaming about player greed.

Good to know the billionaires have popular support for their quest for more billions, they sure deserve it.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

The owners agreed to share revenues with the players, then created a deal with Direct TV that would pay the owners more if there was no football. What do you call that?


The owners are stopping football because they want more, not the other way around, and if it were the other way around you would no doubt be screaming about player greed.

Good to know the billionaires have popular support for their quest for more billions, they sure deserve it.

Millionaires, billionaires, who the hell cares. I am a thousandaire and one day hope to be a millionaire, when that day comes I don't want some f'ing liberal judge telling me how abused my employees are and what their salaries should be.

The players get plenty, they get treated well and would be very happy if not for some snotty lawyer telling them how abused they are. Bilionaires make money because they were smart enough and brtave enough to make the investments needed to become billionaires. They don't deserve our jealosy, they deserve our admiration and respect. When they screw up they take their beating and move on, and that is what is happening today. The owners got screwed in the last CBA, had the chance to change the dynamic and took advantage of that chance. I see nothing wrong with that, as a matter of fact they should have let the last CBA expire and fought this battle then.

Ah well, this thousandaire will do what he has to do to become an upper thousandaire. I wasn't lucky enough to be a great football player, so I didn't make $350K at 21 years old. I hope that football doesn't stop, but if it does I hope that the owners crush the union, for no other reason than they think that they deserve half of everything.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

Millionaires, billionaires, who the hell cares. I am a thousandaire and one day hope to be a millionaire, when that day comes I don't want some f'ing liberal judge telling me how abused my employees are and what their salaries should be.

The players get plenty, they get treated well and would be very happy if not for some snotty lawyer telling them how abused they are. Bilionaires make money because they were smart enough and brtave enough to make the investments needed to become billionaires. They don't deserve our jealosy, they deserve our admiration and respect. When they screw up they take their beating and move on, and that is what is happening today. The owners got screwed in the last CBA, had the chance to change the dynamic and took advantage of that chance. I see nothing wrong with that, as a matter of fact they should have let the last CBA expire and fought this battle then.

Ah well, this thousandaire will do what he has to do to become an upper thousandaire. I wasn't lucky enough to be a great football player, so I didn't make $350K at 21 years old. I hope that football doesn't stop, but if it does I hope that the owners crush the union, for no other reason than they think that they deserve half of everything.


Let me let you in on a little secret; you will NEVER become a millionaire. I will NEVER become a millionaire. Your family and neighbors will NEVER become a millionaire. It doesn't matter how hard you work, or how much you want it. You, Joe Smo on Patsfans.com will NEVER EVER EVER EVER become rich. So many people think they will but guess what? It's called the top 0.1% bracket for a reason. Your attitude of wanting to screw over unions and hard workers and support the super rich because you think you will soon be counted among them is what is killing this country. You will continue to vote against your self interest, continue to vote for less rights, and be a pawn of the super rich until the day you die.
 
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Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

Let me let you in on a little secret; you will NEVER become a millionaire. I will NEVER become a millionaire. Your family and neighbors will NEVER become a millionaire. It doesn't matter how hard you work, or how much you want it. You, Joe Smo on Patsfans.com will NEVER EVER EVER EVER become rich. So many people think they will but guess what? It's called the top 0.1% bracket for a reason. Your attitude of wanting to screw over others and support the super rich because you think you will soon be counted among them is what is killing this country.

One of your sentences is correct.
 
Re: Brady & Mankins agreed to be plaintiffs

Let me let you in on a little secret; you will NEVER become a millionaire. I will NEVER become a millionaire. Your family and neighbors will NEVER become a millionaire. It doesn't matter how hard you work, or how much you want it. You, Joe Smo on Patsfans.com will NEVER EVER EVER EVER become rich. So many people think they will but guess what? It's called the top 0.1% bracket for a reason. Your attitude of wanting to screw over unions and hard workers and support the super rich because you think you will soon be counted among them is what is killing this country. You will continue to vote against your self interest, continue to vote for less rights, and be a pawn of the super rich until the day you die.

Quoted for truth.:rocker:
 
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