Brady is the best according to NY Daily News

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not saying it would be easy. I'm saying there was plenty of time and opportunity left.
As it turned out we not only completed that drive, but drove 72 more yards.
I don't know why you give the Chargers the likelihood of moving the ball ahead 8 when we knew they would run when they couldnt move it tied, when they had a run/pass option.

To say the D wouldn't have stopped them is making a huge jump to a conclusion.
In any event,being down a score on defense with 6:25 left is hardly a situation where you have no chance to win, which is what I am arguing, that the game wasn't over without the strip.
I understand your point, but anyone arguing the game was over if he didn't strip it is foolish. A TON of games have teams come back from one score down on defense with 6:25 left

Never said the Pats D wouldnt stop them. They did come up with some stops sure, but again the odds were stacked against them if TB doesnt ge the FF.

 

[Ring 6]

Playing from behind vs better teams. O became one dimentional. Hes sucked.

I dont buy that. Most of those years they won the division and were a very high seed.
Why are they playing from behind? At least half is because he wasnt scoring. They averaged 15 points a game. If you score, you aren't playing from behind.

Is it fair to boil his entire career down to 10 games? Maybe not, but if we are comparing him to other great QBs who won SBs, these are the 10 games that prevented him from winning a SB. His performance is horrible.
There is absolutely no doubt he wins rings if he played well in most of these 10 games.

I dont think placing the blame elsewhere is acceptable when the debate is are you one of the best ever, and why dont you have a ring. If he played well and the team let him down, thats one thing, but he had an overall average defense that in some seasons was good, and in the final game each year, he was a big reason they lost.


Of course, again, I looked it up.
The 10 teams that Marino lost to in the playoffs..........

The last 2 98 and 99 were destruction by 14-2 teams, that Miami didnt even belong there with.
In the other 8 years, the Fins combined record was 89-39, the teams that beat them 90-38.
They never lost to a team that had greater than 1 more regular season win (outside of 98-99).
Those 8 teams combined to go 2-7 in the rest of the playoffs. (4-8 including 98-99)

So it really wasnt a case of 9-7 teams losing every year to dominant 13-3 teams. They were knocked out 3 times by Buffalo and twice by NE, from their own division.

Those were 8 opportunities for Marino (I agree 9 and 10 fit your description) where his teams averaged over 11 wins a season, and they were defeated by a lot of medicore teams, plus the 84 9ers and 90 Bills.
I just cannot imagine that we take accountablity away from Marino for losing to teams that were his teams approximate equal when he played very poorly. Not if he is to be considered elite and not responsible for not having a ring.

 

[Ring 6]

I firmly believe that if you told Dan Marino that he'd have the 1985 Bears D, he wouldn't try to force the issue as much. After Jimmy came in and those Fins defenses rocked, it was too late. he was 37-

See, I just have a hard time saying we have to judge by what could have been when we have what IS to look at.
Just like the other point in the Pats/SD game.
I cannot fathom saying the game was over if not for the forced fumble when you look and say they never stopped us after it and we stopped them, and there was enough time.
Sure IF we didnt strip the ball and IF they then went and scored another TD, but they didnt. They got the ball and we stopped them.

I just don't buy that might have been can replace what really actually happened.
I am certain that if you had a time capsule and put Tom Brady in Dan Marinos place in 1983, he ends up with SB rings. Thats because he has proven he can do what it takes, and Marino proved he could not. I simply do not see deal killing factors that prevented Marino from winning. Its easy to point out the excuses, but what other QB had the advantages Marino did that led to all of those numbers.

 

[Ring 6]

Never said the Pats D wouldnt stop them. They did come up with some stops sure, but again the odds were stacked against them if TB doesnt ge the FF.

Remember the argument I was ridiculing was that if he doesnt strip the ball, the game is over. Not how much harder it would have been to win, or what could have gone wrong. SImply that it didn't mean it was over.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I dont buy that. Most of those years they won the division and were a very high seed.
Why are they playing from behind? At least half is because he wasnt scoring. They averaged 15 points a game. If you score, you aren't playing from behind.

Is it fair to boil his entire career down to 10 games? Maybe not, but if we are comparing him to other great QBs who won SBs, these are the 10 games that prevented him from winning a SB. His performance is horrible.
There is absolutely no doubt he wins rings if he played well in most of these 10 games.

I dont think placing the blame elsewhere is acceptable when the debate is are you one of the best ever, and why dont you have a ring. If he played well and the team let him down, thats one thing, but he had an overall average defense that in some seasons was good, and in the final game each year, he was a big reason they lost.


Of course, again, I looked it up.
The 10 teams that Marino lost to in the playoffs..........

The last 2 98 and 99 were destruction by 14-2 teams, that Miami didnt even belong there with.
In the other 8 years, the Fins combined record was 89-39, the teams that beat them 90-38.
They never lost to a team that had greater than 1 more regular season win (outside of 98-99).
Those 8 teams combined to go 2-7 in the rest of the playoffs. (4-8 including 98-99)

So it really wasnt a case of 9-7 teams losing every year to dominant 13-3 teams. They were knocked out 3 times by Buffalo and twice by NE, from their own division.

Those were 8 opportunities for Marino (I agree 9 and 10 fit your description) where his teams averaged over 11 wins a season, and they were defeated by a lot of medicore teams, plus the 84 9ers and 90 Bills.
I just cannot imagine that we take accountablity away from Marino for losing to teams that were his teams approximate equal when he played very poorly. Not if he is to be considered elite and not responsible for not having a ring.

Good points. I remember that 63-7 game vs JAX. Gesh

 

[RobertWeathers]

See, I just have a hard time saying we have to judge by what could have been when we have what IS to look at.
Just like the other point in the Pats/SD game.
I cannot fathom saying the game was over if not for the forced fumble when you look and say they never stopped us after it and we stopped them, and there was enough time.
Sure IF we didnt strip the ball and IF they then went and scored another TD, but they didnt. They got the ball and we stopped them.

I just don't buy that might have been can replace what really actually happened.
I am certain that if you had a time capsule and put Tom Brady in Dan Marinos place in 1983, he ends up with SB rings. Thats because he has proven he can do what it takes, and Marino proved he could not. I simply do not see deal killing factors that prevented Marino from winning. Its easy to point out the excuses, but what other QB had the advantages Marino did that led to all of those numbers.

Agree 100%. Thats why DM is not in my top 10.

However I do lay some blame to Shula. Great coach (and good steaks) but BB would have built and coached those teams differently.

 

[Ring 6]

Agree 100%. Thats why DM is not in my top 10.

However I do lay some blame to Shula. Great coach (and good steaks) but BB would have built and coached those teams differently.

Oh, sure. Shula abandoned his identity for Marino. He was a successful, conservative defensive minded coach, and never had nearly the success after deciding that he needed to throw so much.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Oh, sure. Shula abandoned his identity for Marino. He was a successful, conservative defensive minded coach, and never had nearly the success after deciding that he needed to throw so much.

Not what I'm saying, Andy. Shula didn't pull a Tom Yawkey and cow-tow to DM. Shula simply was swinging and missing on many drafts and didn't reload the defense until 1990. From 1984-1989 they were a sub-standard unit.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I think you missed my point. How could the game be over if Troy Brown doesnt strip the int, if there was, in fact, enough time left.

Sorry, I was flippantly harking back to a misspent youth wherein serendipity led me to a course in symbolic logic, which I somehow aced. In symbolic logic, if the premise is false, anything can follow and the ensuing equation is "true." "If the sun rotates around the earth, the moon is made of green cheese" is a "true" statement.

So when you wrote, using irony of course, in response to Deus "...we only have 6:52 left in the game, and momentum wasn't on our side. The game was over and EVERYONE new it," since we all know that the statement "the game was over and EVERYONE knew it," is a false premise, then anything else that follows creates a true equation. Thus also the reference to Alice in Wonderland and the Looking Glass. Yada. Yada. Yada.

It was a geek joke.... Time for a Pats pre-season game or something..............