Brady haters just getting sad now...

[Pessimistic Pete]

Brady doesn't throw it farther than 3 yards, that's not impressive.

Brady rarely makes difficult throws, this isn't surprising.

Brady only has a higher YPA because of his receivers YAC.

Peyton doesn't have the group around him to do that. His OL is worse and the receiving corps as a whole is definitely NOT playing as well as NE's - without injuries, Colts corps is probably better.

Manning can't just dump it off for 3 yards and expect 8-10 yards every play like Brady can. Totally different set of offensive tools. You would expect ANY QB to have VERY few interceptions if they just play it safe the majority of downs, dumping off 3 yards.

Pathetic...

 

[brady199]

Pathetic...

and why are they "sad"?

 

[pwes]

Who said this?

 

[JustEndTheSeason]

I'm guessing it wasn't Manning's fault that he threw 4 INTs tonight, 2 of them for pic-sixes.

 

[Pessimistic Pete]

A user on a message board named "Heathus" also..

Brady is statue in the pocket, which is the BIGGEST reason the Patriots offense slumped during the SB loss vs the Giants.

When he was airing it out more often to Moss (double or triple covered), he was being intercepted more often. Belichick shields his fragile QB by giving him safe play after safe play and a solid run game to go along with it.

 

[neuronet]

Who said this?

A jealous, petty man, is my guess.

 

[JustEndTheSeason]

 

[VectorPrime]

A user on a message board named "Heathus" also..

Nice, I see that the Pats haters have upgraded our running game from being horrible to suddenly being "solid."

 

[ausbacker]

After watching Rivers and Vick today Brady has pulled ahead in the race for MVP. I also can't believe people still believe Manning has a better and more accurate arm than Brady. Bunch of tossers.

After a down patch at the beginning of the season I firmly believe Tom Brady is playing the best football of his career right now. It's a pleasure to watch him throw the tightest of spirals into coverage, hit the target and watch him command an offense in transition.

Not just as a Patriots fan but I seriously hope this side performs and gives him the chance to win another 3 Superbowls.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

A user on a message board named "Heathus" also..

It's a frame of reference thing... Brady moves the pocket. Since he's always in a similar position relative to the pocket, has he really moved, even if all the action has magically dropped away two yards behind him?

This guy clearly missed all the SAT questions involving an earthbound twin and a rocket-riding twin, flashlights on very fast tramcars, and the like.

 

[Joker]

http://www.therundown.tv/videos/wtf-files/crazy-guy-falls-down-stairs-and-gets-hit-by-a-car/

 

[sbpatfan]

LOL.. a GAMEfaqs' message board? I've been around there for years. The message boards are troll / flame central and the average user is a teenager. 99% of the comments on there are borderline ******ed. Don't sweat it.

 

[Kasmir]

Here's an on-topic little dialog I'm having with the Pro Football Focus guys:

Me:

OK, I’m dying to know what rating system you’re using that rates Brady so low. By both NFL passer rating and the Football Outsiders DVOA system, Brady is the top rated QB in the league (by a lot via DVOA). If the Patriot’s were 2-9 or being carried by their defense or by extraordinary skill position players, maybe I could understand. But they’re not, i.e the offense is doing well. So what gives?

You mention something about “dinking and dunking” is somehow downgraded in your system. Can you explain how? Are you giving QB’s no credit for YAC? Are you considering a 10 yard pass over the middle to be a longer completion than a 7 yard out? Do you downgrade the whole NE offense because of the style of passing it does, or do you only downgrade the QB? If it’s only the QB that’s downgraded, then where does the credit for the system go? To the coaches?? If the Patriots are indeed a good offense with a mere system QB, then why doesn’t the whole NFL copy the system if it doesn’t require an elite QB?

I like your site — I liked it a lot more before the pay wall, in particular because you publish per-play ratings of non-skill positions. But you must know you come under a lot of criticism, even ridicule, for some of the startling contrarian ratings you come to,

Which is not say you’re wrong.

Bu thow about removing some of the opacity and discussing your rating system. Or at least give us some reason to trust you by running through an example, like specifics of what it is that has you rating Brady so poorly when other rating systems say he is the best QB this year.

Them:

I run the site and have been a football writer for 15 years, but I don’t do the grading. I’ve gone back and forth with the guys on Brady this year, and I’ll say this — they’re not trying to be contrarian, just calling them as they see them. Every player gets a grade on every play for what he does, positive and negative, on a scale of -2 to +2.

I’m sure they’ll comment as well, but looking at the numbers, Brady does throw an inordinate amount of his balls short — probably the least of any top QB. 64 percent of his dropbacks result in passes less than 10 yards, compared to Rivers (52 percent), Eli Manning (54.4 percent), Peyton Manning (58.2 percent) and Ryan (55.1).

No one is saying that Brady isn’t an elite QB, but he’s also just starting to play great football after a sluggish run. You can’t discount three so-so games against San Diego, Minnesota and Cleveland.

As to the MVP, I agree that he’s a very good candidate — 9-2 + efficient QB + no other real stars = MVP candidate, for sure. But the Patriots’ offense is extremely well-coordinated and coached, as well, the running backs and line are well above average — the cupboard isn’t bare around him.

I’d say I’d vote Belichick Coach of the Year (HANDS DOWN!) but Brady maybe No.2 or 3 in MVP behind Rivers.

And check this out on our grading:
Grading | ProFootballFocus.com

..and...

The thing that we do, that nobody else does, it add in an element of difficulty of throw into simple raw statistics. So say Brady throws for 400 yards, but they came on 10 screens to a HB, all thrown behind the line of scrimmage, all without a defender near the HB, all taken 40 yards by a HB making moves on top of moves. Any raw stat you look at will say Brady did an amazing job on those 10 plays, but in reality he made 10 throws you would expect any QB to make.

Obviously that isn’t happening, but I’m generating an extreme example to make the point. On the other hand you could have a guy throw for the same yardage, the same number of throws etc, but each one required a pin-point pass into tight coverage to beat the man. Now this QB obviously performed much better than the first guy, but simple stats wouldn’t reflect that.

Our grading is very detailed and complex, so it’s not correct to simply say a QB gets no credit for YAC, because there are certain situations that they can (a throw that leads a receiver to YAC that earns a first down where a poorer throw would have resulted in him being stopped short for example), but it’s certainly true to say that the difficulty of the throw becomes a big thing for our grading, which is why we differ from results gained simply by metrics. Brady is putting together a statistically excellent season, but he is doing so by making throws that you would expect any reasonable QB to make for the most part. IMO this season Brady’s numbers are far more about the system that NE are running with their offense than they are about Brady’s play.

When he has a game in which he makes tough throws like this Lions game, he gets a big grade, he just hasn’t had to do it most of the season

Pretty illuminating. I just replied thusly:

Interesting approach, but obviously a dangerous one. How do you know that degree of difficulty of throws correlates with winning at all? Seems like a risk/reward efficient curve is likely operant. Brady is of course notable through his career for a very high TD/INT ratio — at the moment it’s 23/4. Both TD’s and INTS directly correlate with winning. If Brady is maximizing this ratio by making the a safer throw that accomplishes a TD, your assigning a higher score if he had chosen a more difficult throw suggests you might have aspects of your rating system that negatively correlate with success, i.e. winning. The Football Outsiders system of heavily weighs successful results, i.e plays that result in scores or first downs (etc), and penalizes actions that correlate with failure. In this sense FO’s system seems an inherently more objective system than what you describe, which seems to be more a style-points-based approach. You need to demonstrate that your system correlates with football success. If the Patriot’s offensive success cannot be attributed to Brady — or any other players, according to your ratings — then it must be coaching or luck. If you so believe, quantify those factors as well.

You can find the thread over here:

Re-Focused: Week 12, Patriots at Lions | ProFootballFocus.com

Please visit them and consider commenting there. I have a lot of respect for the huge labor of love involved by the PFF guys, and I'd love to see them tighten up their system. But as it stands, it's a great example of how long lived the "Brady is just a system quarterback" meme has been...