Brady defends Moss...

[BradyFTW!]

Please tell me you didn't just judge their "closeness" based on a few shots a game of the sidelines on a TV feed? Please tell me you've been in the locker room or know them both personally or something, anything!

This is getting ridiculous, Moss does nothing but help the team that we all claim to love, yet many of you do nothing but dog the guy and hold him to ridiculously high standards.

All of his teammates are liars, Gamble is a genius and now let's pretend to know what is going on behind closed doors.

It's pretty sad how far a lot of people will go in order to support their assumptions. when Brady says something that they agree with, it's the word of God Himself. When Brady says something that doesn't gel with what they think, he has some outside motivation that's causing him to lie. Bottom line, we always knew that Moss was going to get slammed the second he wasn't having a record-breaking season. We're Boston fans, after all, and if there's one thing that's incredibly lame about Boston fans, it's their tendency to go over the top in tearing into their more talented players the second things go a little wrong, despite having no idea what's really going on.

Realistically, though, we'll see next week. If Moss is still starting (and he will be), then that solves it. If he's benched, then either his injury was aggravated or Belichick is sick of his attitude.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That's good to hear. Brady loves Moss. None of his former QB's ever stuck up for Moss before.

Cant believe people are bashing Moss when he was #1 in receiving yards this season before the week started.

Big deal. See my above post. I hope it's the same situation with Maroney las year whereas he was playing poorly and IRed only to understand later that he had a broken shoulder blade.

As of right now, an injury is Moss' only excuse for his less than pedestrian production these last 4 weeks.

It seems that BB and the team (inc Brady) support him. No question hes having a tough time, but hes gotta find a way to raise his game.

 

[emoney_33]

emoney-you make good points but you are being way too sensitive on this point.

In his last 4 games, hes averaging 3 catches for 45 yards. As a future 1st ballot HoF, #1 WR, team captain in a playoff drive, that is unaccpetable.

Look- there is no question that BB, TB and the oranization LIKES Moss. He has done nothing to disrupt this team. By all accounts, he has been a good teammate. Don't throw out stats. Thats poor.

If this team has any shot at a SB, he needs to raise his game. Hall of Famers do that.

I am not trying to argue that his last 4 games were great or anything like that. I'm just trying to argue against the reason that he's not trying or dogging it etc...

Also his value is still pretty high in the last 4 games, even without the stats. He opens up things for others even when he's not having the most productive games.

 

[Kontradiction]

Don't play stupid. You know the difference and have seen the difference over the years. Brady's temper is well known, as is the difference between his diplomacy in the face of disgust/disappointment and his defense of another player.

So basically, no? You don't have any concrete evidence of such. And I'm not playing stupid. I'm just doing my due diligence. I want to know how you KNOW... FOR A FACT that Brady is angry at his teammates when he just gives short, one word answers. Please present evidence as such or do not pass it off as fact.

Your insinuation was obvious.

What insinuation? Please enlighten me about what insinuation I could have made by stating that, "BB doesn't give a damn what Dungy thinks"...

Perhaps if you weren't so quick to react you wouldn't be mashing the keyboard with irrelevant tangents. Belichick giving a damn or not had nothing to do with my point that Dungy was right. In the context of that predicate, your response was nonsensical.

First off, you're not William Shakespeare. Please stop typing and/or talking like you are.

Secondly, I'm not going out on irrelevant tangents. Dungy might be right, or he might not be. The only judge of that is time. If Moss comes out and runs over the Bills this weekend (after getting talked to by BB for having a bad game) and keeps it up into the playoffs, Dungy will be wrong. Regardless, my point was that, right or wrong, BB probably does not care in the least bit about what Dungy thinks. I'm not sure where you're having a problem understanding that (particularly since you're clearly trying to pass off this "I'm mega educated" vibe).

But, just so we're clear, let me get this straight: Do you think that BB should go against what he's always done and NOT talk to Moss or point out his bad play in a team meeting, despite the fact that he will undoubtedly do it to everyone else?

 

[Brono]

This Moss business is, for the most part, a controversy manufactured by the media for a ratings boost. If the Pats lose, it's easy for the media to scapegoat a player who is injured or otherwise going through a rough stretch.

Bottom line: The Pats need to get into the playoffs, and a win over the Bills next week would be a big step toward that goal.

All IMHO!

 

[RobertWeathers]

I am not trying to argue that his last 4 games were great or anything like that. I'm just trying to argue against the reason that he's not trying or dogging it etc....

I don't think hes dogging out of spite. I think hes dogging b/c he is indifferent/or disappointed in something. Could be that Welker has more catches. Maybe he and his agent were talking extension and the Pats balked and Randy is pulling a Manny Ramirez. Keep in mind that the Pats will typically do extensions around the bye and the Indy game was a couple of weeks after that. Wish I knew. His history and current events are my only guide. Fair or not.

Also his value is still pretty high in the last 4 games, even without the stats. He opens up things for others even when he's not having the most productive games.

No question. Arguably the most dynamic WR ever to play the game. The problem is that the team needs Randy to do more than draw double teams. They need him to finish routes and make plays-even then double teamed.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Another reason that despite all his struggles, I'll take #12 over any QB come playoff time. You can tell how pissed he was after that drop, but he will never trash a teammate to save his own @$$.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It's pretty sad how far a lot of people will go in order to support their assumptions. when Brady says something that they agree with, it's the word of God Himself. When Brady says something that doesn't gel with what they think, he has some outside motivation that's causing him to lie. Bottom line, we always knew that Moss was going to get slammed the second he wasn't having a record-breaking season. We're Boston fans, after all, and if there's one thing that's incredibly lame about Boston fans, it's their tendency to go over the top in tearing into their more talented players the second things go a little wrong, despite having no idea what's really going on.

Realistically, though, we'll see next week. If Moss is still starting (and he will be), then that solves it. If he's benched, then either his injury was aggravated or Belichick is sick of his attitude.

I just posted in another thread (because I was listening as I posted in it) that Holley, who has been defending Moss all AM against the charge that he quit (admittedly semantics agrument though) just stated that he knew for a fact that Brady called Moss out in practice about a month ago and it didn't go over well and there has been a problem there ever since. Later that night Moss called Brady to tell him he had hurt Randy's feelings...

How do you deal with that.

 

[DaedalusX]

So basically, no? You don't have any concrete evidence of such. And I'm not playing stupid.

Yes, you are.

I'm just doing my due diligence.

No, you want me to go on a wild Google goose chase because you're annoyed I pointed out how you're wrong.

I want to know how you KNOW... FOR A FACT that Brady is angry at his teammates when he just gives short, one word answers.

No, you don't. You just want to get into a tit-for-tat link/quote pissing match. No interest, sorry.

What insinuation? Please enlighten me about what insinuation I could have made by stating that, "BB doesn't give a damn what Dungy thinks"...

The insinuation that I was arguing Belichick should listen to Dungy as opposed to observing that Dungy was right. I was not.

First off, you're not William Shakespeare. Please stop typing and/or talking like you are.

I see you failed both creative writing and history. I'm not speaking in Elizabethan English, so the Shakespeare dig is as nonsensical as it is petty.

Secondly, I'm not going out on irrelevant tangents. Dungy might be right, or he might not be. The only judge of that is time.

Or you, apparently. Or anyone. How about you just say "I'd rather not commit to an answer on this at all" and stop posting on the topic?

Regardless, my point was that, right or wrong, BB probably does not care in the least bit about what Dungy thinks.

And your point still made no sense in context.

I'm not sure where you're having a problem understanding that (particularly since you're clearly trying to pass off this "I'm mega educated" vibe).

I'm talking to you as clearly as possible. That you're intimidated by precise language is not my problem.

But, just so we're clear, let me get this straight: Do you think that BB should go against what he's always done and NOT talk to Moss or point out his bad play in a team meeting, despite the fact that he will undoubtedly do it to everyone else?

Given that he just defended Moss for ESPN, along with Brady, Bruschi and Rodney, yea, I'd say he's probably going to reinforce his support of Randy more than tear him down this week. But hey, maybe he's just being polite? That is, after all, what Belichick is known for -- indulging and placating the media.

 

[emoney_33]

I just posted in another thread (because I was listening as I posted in it) that Holley, who has been defending Moss all AM against the charge that he quit (admittedly semantics agrument though) just stated that he knew for a fact that Brady called Moss out in practice about a month ago and it didn't go over well and there has been a problem there ever since. Later that night Moss called Brady to tell him he had hurt Randy's feelings...

How do you deal with that.

Let's clarify. He knew for a fact Brady called out Moss in practice. He does NOT know for a fact there has been a "problem" because of or involving this ever since.

 

[Patspsycho]

Let's clarify. He knew for a fact Brady called out Moss in practice. He does NOT know for a fact there has been a "problem" because of or involving this ever since.

He doesn't know "for a fact."

The media can only sit in on the "media access portion" of practice which is mostly stretching and warming up.

So he would have had to heard about this from a second hand source, so this is far from a "fact."

 

[BradyFTW!]

I just posted in another thread (because I was listening as I posted in it) that Holley, who has been defending Moss all AM against the charge that he quit (admittedly semantics agrument though) just stated that he knew for a fact that Brady called Moss out in practice about a month ago and it didn't go over well and there has been a problem there ever since. Later that night Moss called Brady to tell him he had hurt Randy's feelings...

How do you deal with that.

**** happens. If anything, I'd question how Holley heard about it, since stuff like this happens pretty regularly but doesn't make it to the media. And did Holley really say that he knows that there's been a problem since then, or are you choosing to... colorfully interpret what he said? I don't see how you can reasonably draw a direct line from "Brady ragged on Moss in practice" to "Moss quit on the team!!!1!1" a month later, though.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

When Holley says he knows something for a fact, and he said it with emphasis, I tend to believe him based on his track record of not playing that card except in cases where it is. He was defending Moss against the term quitter all AM. But unlike some here he watched the game and the last 2-3 as well and he isn't in denial that Moss has disappeared at a crucial juncture of the season and that is also something great players don't do.

 

[emoney_33]

When Holley says he knows something for a fact, and he said it with emphasis, I tend to believe him based on his track record of not playing that card except in cases where it is. He was defending Moss against the term quitter all AM. But unlike some here he watched the game and the last 2-3 as well and he isn't in denial that Moss has disappeared at a crucial juncture of the season and that is also something great players don't do.

disappeared is a bit harsh. He's only had ONE trully bad game.

 

[BradyFTW!]

disappeared is a bit harsh. He's only had ONE trully bad game.

I dunno, last week, where he only caught ONE touchdown pass, was quite a disappearing act

 

[The Dynasty]

disappeared is a bit harsh. He's only had ONE trully bad game.

Last week vs the Dolphins was pretty weak after the 1st quarter TD. In the 2nd half he wasnt giving 100% blocking and obviously the INT in the endzone. Yes, it was a bad throw but he didnt even make an attempt to break it up. The talk about Moss not playing hard started last week, not just after yesterdays game.

Even in the Jets game Revis held him to 34 yards. His struggles and frustrations began in that game.

 

[Kontradiction]

The insinuation that I was arguing Belichick should listen to Dungy as opposed to observing that Dungy was right. I was not.

I'm sorry. I took "Dungy is right" to mean, "Bill should listen to him on this one" instead of, "hey coach, don't do what is right. Do what, in my opinion, is the wrong thing, please". Sorry for that mistake.

I see you failed both creative writing and history. I'm not speaking in Elizabethan English, so the Shakespeare dig is as nonsensical as it is petty.

Blame that on your lack of a personality.

Or you, apparently. Or anyone. How about you just say "I'd rather not commit to an answer on this at all" and stop posting on the topic?

What's wrong with agreeing with both methods? I don't see a problem at all with BB pointing out Moss' bad play along with everyone else's. I also think that this should be a rallying point for the team. They need to let him know that bad games suck, but he needs to get over it, and that they have his back.

And your point still made no sense in context.

Either that or you weren't actually aware of what you were saying at the time.

I'm talking to you as clearly as possible. That you're intimidated by precise language is not my problem.

I don't have a problem understanding it at all. I just think it sounds ridiculous. It almost comes off like you're trying to talk down to people.

Given that he just defended Moss for ESPN, along with Brady, Bruschi and Rodney, yea, I'd say he's probably going to reinforce his support of Randy more than tear him down this week. But hey, maybe he's just being polite? That is, after all, what Belichick is known for -- indulging and placating the media.

Again, no **** he defended him. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why. But he should still.. wait, let me put it in bold so maybe you'll understand: he should still call him out in the film room for his bad play, along with everyone else. If you can't see that he acts one way with the media and another way with the actual team, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[DaedalusX]

I'm sorry. I took "Dungy is right" to mean, "Bill should listen to him on this one" instead of, "hey coach, don't do what is right. Do what, in my opinion, is the wrong thing, please". Sorry for that mistake.

So we're back to you can't read. Got it.

Blame that on your lack of a personality.

That doesn't even make sense.

What's wrong with agreeing with both methods? I don't see a problem at all with BB pointing out Moss' bad play along with everyone else's. I also think that this should be a rallying point for the team. They need to let him know that bad games suck, but he needs to get over it, and that they have his back.

Because for someone of Moss' talent, experience and emotional disposition, pointing out the bad play at this point just adds insult to injury. It's not like Moss just suddenly forgot how to be the best WR in the league, or doesn't know what his performance was like Sunday.

Only a moron would join the chorus of people publicly, defiantly defending Moss and then go behind close doors and undress him in front of the one group of people he needs to support him most. If you can't understand that, then it's clear you've never been in a management or leadership position of any worth.

I don't have a problem understanding it at all. I just think it sounds ridiculous. It almost comes off like you're trying to talk down to people.

Then I suggest you go back to adult continuing education, or enter a section of the workforce where written word actually means something. I'm sure it will be an enlightening experience.

Again, no **** he defended him. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why. But he should still.. wait, let me put it in bold so maybe you'll understand: he should still call him out in the film room for his bad play, along with everyone else.

This is absurd, absolutist nonsense. Belichick of all people knows that certain personalities need different handling. How forcefully he's addressed the press, which he himself holds in utter disdain, to clear Moss' name on this issue makes it clear.

If you can't see that he acts one way with the media and another way with the actual team, I don't know what to tell you.

You're conflating the argument. No one is arguing that he's not different with the team than with the media.

The point is this: Randy is a special talent, with a fragile disposition. Belichick -- by addressing the media he scorns, but Moss is sensitive to -- has shown that he understands Randy's personality and what it takes to make him feel supported. It follows that he isn't going to undermine that effort by tearing him down in team meeting days later.

And, frankly, if Belichick would rather treat all players equally and rip Moss apart in team meeting rather than try to rebuild his confidence, then Moss deserves a better coach. Moss knows how his play went. The team knows how his play went. The whole goddamn country does. There's no reason to harp on it in the locker room, too.

The Patriot Way should be a work ethic, not some fascist ideal of how all players must fall into line and be utterly robotic while being undressed by the media, fan base and coach when the problem is clearly an issue of fragile confidence.

 

[Kontradiction]

This will be the last post on the subject since talking to you is even worse than talking to a brick wall.

So we're back to you can't read. Got it.

Weak.

That doesn't even make sense.

Sure it does. It just doesn't make sense to you because you're not actually having to read and respond to your posts. Again, you're like talking to a brick wall.

Because for someone of Moss' talent, experience and emotional disposition, pointing out the bad play at this point just adds insult to injury. It's not like Moss just suddenly forgot how to be the best WR in the league, or doesn't know what his performance was like Sunday.

Only a moron would join the chorus of people publicly, defiantly defending Moss and then go behind close doors and undress him in front of the one group of people he needs to support him most.

It was pointed out that Brady recently called Moss out in practice, badly enough to warrant a phone call from Moss saying that Brady had hurt his feelings. Since these accusations have been coming out, Brady has defended him in the press. I guess Brady's a moron too, huh? Oh wait, I'll save you the time so you don't have to actually write the next copout: "perhaps you should learn how to read". Got it. It's my damn reading comprehension skills again~!

If you can't understand that, then it's clear you've never been in a management or leadership position of any worth.

I'm sure Brandsmart USA is proud of their four-time manager of the month.

Then I suggest you go back to adult continuing education, or enter a section of the workforce where written word actually means something. I'm sure it will be an enlightening experience.

Thanks for proving my point.

This is absurd, absolutist nonsense. Belichick of all people knows that certain personalities need different handling. How forcefully he's addressed the press, which he himself holds in utter disdain, to clear Moss' name on this issue makes it clear.

It's hilarious that you don't even know anything about our coach and where his roots come from. BB comes from the Parcells line of thinking. With him, things are strictly done behind closed doors and no one player is given a pass when the team is watching film and breaking down the game. This is why I don't think he'll give Moss a free pass, no matter how "mentally fragile" Moss is. BB's also smart enough to see that this method failed, miserably, in his stays with Minnesota and Oakland. Stroking his bruised ego backfired in those two places. Sure he backed him up in the press. Brady showed before with Schottenheimer that members of the team aren't going to let another team attack them. But, as Brady was telling Schottenheimer to shut his mouth after the San Diego game, BB was pointing out areas in which the team needed to play better. It won't be any different this week.

The point is this: Randy is a special talent, with a fragile disposition. Belichick -- by addressing the media he scorns, but Moss is sensitive to -- has shown that he understands Randy's personality and what it takes to make him feel supported. It follows that he isn't going to undermine that effort by tearing him down in team meeting days later.

This is why it's like talking to a brick wall with you. Your reading comprehension is absolutely horrid. Please point out for me, and everyone reading, where I said that BB was going to "tear Moss down" in a meeting. You'll have a hell of a time doing so because I never said that. Maybe you're not aware, but BB and the team watch tape of the previous game in the week leading up to the next game. He specifically goes over it and breaks down where the team should play better. It's something that I would venture to guess all coaches do. Not only will Moss' play be analyzed, but so will Morris' and even Brady's. Hell, most of the offense will probably be addressed. In no way is that "tearing Moss down". Jesus. And you've been trying to scold me over MY reading comprehension skills...

The Patriot Way should be a work ethic, not some fascist ideal of how all players must fall into line and be utterly robotic while being undressed by the media, fan base and coach when the problem is clearly an issue of fragile confidence.

I'll simply offer up a quote from the movie Borat for this one...

The only thing keeping me going was my dream of one day holding Pamela in my arms and making romance explosion on her stomach.

Enjoy yourself, buddy...

 

[DaedalusX]

This will be the last post on the subject since talking to you is even worse than talking to a brick wall.

Last word eh? The mark of the keyboard commando.

Sure it does. It just doesn't make sense to you because you're not actually having to read and respond to your posts. Again, you're like talking to a brick wall.

Sounds like you're confused, which is backed up by the rest of your tortured logic. You're not actually refuting my points, you're just moving the goal posts, throwing our red herrings and strawmen. It's really quite breathtaking, as far as a display of logical fallacies go.

It was pointed out that Brady recently called Moss out in practice, badly enough to warrant a phone call from Moss saying that Brady had hurt his feelings. Since these accusations have been coming out, Brady has defended him in the press. I guess Brady's a moron too, huh?

No, but you're sure angling to be.

Oh wait, I'll save you the time so you don't have to actually write the next copout: "perhaps you should learn how to read". Got it. It's my damn reading comprehension skills again~!

Actually, chief, it is. To wit:

Only a moron would join the chorus of people publicly, defiantly defending Moss and then go behind close doors and undress him in front of the one group of people he needs to support him most.

Note the temporal ordering here. You see, Brady calling Moss out (A) and then defending him in public (B) is different than him defending him in public (B) and then calling him out (A).

Just because A,B has happened does not mean that B,A has happened. And given that Brady was visibly attempting to talk Randy through his rut during the game, when usually he'd be foaming at the mouth at incompetence, further enforces this.

I'm sure Brandsmart USA is proud of their four-time manager of the month.

Actually I'm the CTO of an global technology firm, but sure. Whatever you say.

Thanks for proving my point.

You never had one.

It's hilarious that you don't even know anything about our coach and where his roots come from.

That's a stretch and a lazy gamble in this discussion.

BB comes from the Parcells line of thinking.

I wager he's cut his own path since.

With him, things are strictly done behind closed doors and no one player is given a pass when the team is watching film and breaking down the game.

This week proves that's not true.

This is why I don't think he'll give Moss a free pass, no matter how "mentally fragile" Moss is.

And if you're right, then he's not the right coach for Moss. You don't destroy the confidence of your best weapon when he's genuinely trying to be a model citizen, as Belichick and Brady vehemently stated to the press this week, just for some arbitrary consistency. It's moronic.

BB's also smart enough to see that this method failed, miserably, in his stays with Minnesota and Oakland. Stroking his bruised ego backfired in those two places.

That's not why Moss didn't work out in Minnesota or Oakland.

Your reading comprehension is absolutely horrid. Please point out for me, and everyone reading, where I said that BB was going to "tear Moss down" in a meeting. You'll have a hell of a time doing so because I never said that.

You said Belichick should treat Moss no differently than any other player this week. Belichick's style is to rip his players a new one for everything they screw up, especially when they screw up big. Thus, logically Belichick is either going to go soft on the entire team this week to maintain this supposed even-handedness with Moss, or he's going to rip everyone a new one to maintain even-handedness and stick to his usual M.O.

If it's the former, that's a disservice to the team. If it's the latter, it's abusive to Moss in the context of the past week.

Maybe you're not aware, but BB and the team watch tape of the previous game in the week leading up to the next game. He specifically goes over it and breaks down where the team should play better. It's something that I would venture to guess all coaches do. Not only will Moss' play be analyzed, but so will Morris' and even Brady's. Hell, most of the offense will probably be addressed.

I'm honestly impressed you were able to focus long enough to craft such thoughtful sarcasm.

In no way is that "tearing Moss down".

In the context of the press this week, drawing extra attention to Moss' obvious failures on these plays does more harm than good. Thus, it would be tearing him down.

Jesus. And you've been trying to scold me over MY reading comprehension skills...

Try nothing, I've repeatedly demonstrated your poor grasp of the English language.

I'll simply offer up a quote from the movie Borat for this one...

The only thing keeping me going was my dream of one day holding Pamela in my arms and making romance explosion on her stomach.

Enjoy yourself, buddy...

So, to summarize, your greatest insight into this conversation was that Borat had some great quotes. Got it.