Brady and Belichick are mortals, not gods

[Uncle Meat]

We could win Super Bowls without either Belichick or Brady, or both. Plenty of teams have.

No you can't. Belichick and Brady are the reason for the team's success every year WAY more than anything else...that can't be stressed enough. We are talking about two Hall of Fame guys, and they just happen to be the two most important things a team needs: coach and QB. Take away those two guys, and I think the Patriots are immediately in rebuilding mode, something some young New England fans haven't even seen in their whole lives.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, what the Patriots did WAS impressive...let's not forget it took a miracle drive for a FG in the first one, a comeback and another comeback in a shootout in the second one and a puking choke by the opposing QB in the third one for the Pats to claim victory. I was a young man when the Steelers and Bradshaw had their run. THAT was a ridiculous team. They had no weakness on ANY unit.

Thats not really true
Bradshaw was one of the few worst QBs in the NFL, and they had no receivers at all in 1974, and both were only decent in 1975. Then had a silly defense. By 78/79 when Bradshaw improved the running game was not as great, and the defense was really good but not the same. They allowed 31 points in the SB in 78.

 

[Lifer]

Thats not really true
Bradshaw was one of the few worst QBs in the NFL, and they had no receivers at all in 1974, and both were only decent in 1975. Then had a silly defense. By 78/79 when Bradshaw improved the running game was not as great, and the defense was really good but not the same. They allowed 31 points in the SB in 78.

Bradshaw and the receivers were only "decent" in 1975. Thats news to the Dallas Cowboys. Yeah and the 1978 Steelers werent THAT great. Are you 17?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I recognize the father, son, and the holy owner.

/dodges lightning bolt

 

[lillloyd]

Thats not really true
Bradshaw was one of the few worst QBs in the NFL, and they had no receivers at all in 1974, and both were only decent in 1975. Then had a silly defense. By 78/79 when Bradshaw improved the running game was not as great, and the defense was really good but not the same. They allowed 31 points in the SB in 78.

I'm sure they weren't perfect but the point is they had 10 Hall of Famers from a single team, largely because in the pre-FA era you could just collect talent and sit on it. It's just not possible nowadays.

A lot of older Steelers fans and media guys swear that their '76 team was arguably the best of the lot, but was derailed when both Franco Harris and Rocky Blier were lost to injuries at a time when the running game meant everything to the Steelers' offense. Which kind of goes back to how luck always plays a part; I'm sure there are Steelers fans who argue we "should have" had five SBs but for the injuries, but that ignores the good fortune we had in other years.

BTW Pitt *scored* 31 in SB 14; they allowed 19. But your general point is correct, that 70s team evolved from a truly dominant defense + running game in the early portion, to a more diverse attack (and arguably a less dominant D) at the tail end.

I say the Pats' accomplishments are equally (and arguably more, depending on your perspective) because player movement changed everything. One other guy who doesn't get enough credit in the same vein is Joe Gibbs (the "first" Joe Gibbs of the 80s, not the post-Nascar retread), who won 3 SBs with three different QBs, none of whom were named "Brady" or "Bradshaw" (Theisman, Doug Williams, and Mark F'in Rypien!) I think of him as sort of a spiritual ancestor to BB, in that he constantly retooled rosters into championship teams. Amazing stuff.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

One comment I see written over and over again, both here and elsewhere, is that 'Belichick is wasting Tom Brady's prime years', or words to that effect. It usually goes on to imply that the Patriots should be winning the Super Bowl every year, because Brady is the GOAT in the opinion of the writer.

NFL football is the ultimate team sport. It is nowhere near that simple in a league with a real salary cap, and free agency.

It's not that Tom is the goat. It's that Tom is incapable of putting this team on his shoulders and carrying them to a Super Bowl victory and this coaching staff fails to recognize this fact. The Patriots need to develop their entire offense and stick with it. Unfortunately they revert back to All-Brady-All-The-Time (see 2nd half of Raven playoff game) when the going gets tough.
Belichick is very much to blame for turning this team into the Indy Colts, a QB-centric team with the same mediocre post-season results as the Colts.
How long were we yelling for Belichick to address the LB corp??
We're still yelling for Belichick to address the pass rush.
Poor drafting, poor FA signing and flat out ignoring certain problem areas (LB/pass rush) for far too long is what has wasted Brady's prime years.
It's not on the QB, it's on the coach/GM.
VERY mortal indeed!!

 

[Rick Sanford 25]

Thats not really true
Bradshaw was one of the few worst QBs in the NFL, and they had no receivers at all in 1974, and both were only decent in 1975. Then had a silly defense. By 78/79 when Bradshaw improved the running game was not as great, and the defense was really good but not the same. They allowed 31 points in the SB in 78.

They drafted 4 HOF players in 1974. Swann, Stallworth, Webster and Lambert. They gave up an average of 13.5 points a game. Held the Bills with OJ in his prime to 49 yards rushing, the Raiders to 29 yards rushing and the Vikings to 17 yards rushing in the Super Bowl. The reason their passing stats were pedestrian was because they ran the ball so well (172 ypg), like most of the successful teams of the 60's and 70's. They ran for over 200 yards 7 times that season, including all three playoff games.

Defensively in 1975 and 76 they were even better. 11 points a game in 75 and a point differential of almost 16. They ran the ball even better at 188 yards a game. Swann and Stallworth were coming into their own and the 76 team may have been one of the best defenses of all time. 9 points a game with 5 shutouts. They ran for over 210 yds per game and if Franco, Rocky and Gerela didn't get hurt they would have won another Super Bowl.

The 78 and 79 teams were simply two of the most complete teams of all time. Relied less on the running game (170 ypg!!!) and adapted to a more wide open passing game. The 79 team was one of the best offensive teams of all time. 31 points in the Super Bowl to Dallas were with 2 garbage time TD's that made the score respectable. All their playoff wins (except for SB XII) were by more than 10 points. Any time that team needed to make a big play it was made.
I've been rooting for the PATS for close to 50 years, but please don't compare those Steeler teams to the Patriots teams after 2001. They kept their core throughout and didn't have free agancy, and along with the 49ers and the Packers before them were one of the 3 best dynasties of all time. Not even close.

 

[Tunescribe]

Here is some evidence contradicting the OP's assertion (check out the image in his lordship's breath):

 

[Tunescribe]

Here's another photo of Brady giving the former Pope his blessing:

 

[Ivan]

It's not that Tom is the goat. It's that Tom is incapable of putting this team on his shoulders and carrying them to a Super Bowl victory and this coaching staff fails to recognize this fact. The Patriots need to develop their entire offense and stick with it. Unfortunately they revert back to All-Brady-All-The-Time (see 2nd half of Raven playoff game) when the going gets tough.
Belichick is very much to blame for turning this team into the Indy Colts, a QB-centric team with the same mediocre post-season results as the Colts.
How long were we yelling for Belichick to address the LB corp??
We're still yelling for Belichick to address the pass rush.
Poor drafting, poor FA signing and flat out ignoring certain problem areas (LB/pass rush) for far too long is what has wasted Brady's prime years.
It's not on the QB, it's on the coach/GM.
VERY mortal indeed!!

No doubt, I blame Belichick 100% for the David tyree catch, and Seymour's failure to get Manning down, and Samuel's botched int and Brady's high throw and welker's drop. I also blame belichick for the bad spot on 4th and 2 that cost them a first down, the game, and very likely snother opportun ity for Brady and belichick to lose a SB for them, as well as the loss in their last SB. These guys really suck and other than appearing in five SB's in 12 years and winning three, as well as being the best franchise in football for the last 12 years they have done nothing for this team and it's fans. It is clear they are in for another loser season and it is time for the Kraft's to move on from the loser coach and QB.

 

[WhiZa]

Let's put this discussion aside for one day. Happy Birthday BB!

 

[Coach42]

I have a Hugh Millen and **** MacPherson autographed team guide. That's really all I need to look at to feel happy about everything that's happened since 1994.

 

[neuronet]

The very title of this thread is demonstrably false, as St Thomas Aquinas proved centuries ago, and has been confirmed over and over by modern physics.