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Brady and BB

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Xzibit23, Mar 10, 2008.

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  1. Xzibit23

    Xzibit23 Rookie

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    This will be an unpopular thread and will upset some posters, the thread critcisizing the offensive playcalling got me thinking and it seems like Brady and Bellichick are teflon...they get all the glory, but never the blame. When things go wrong, it has to fall on someone else's shoulders...the WRs, the OL, the CBs, the LBs, the rest of the coaching staff, etc...The reality is Brady didnt have a good superbowl. Was he being presurred mercilessly?? Yes. But he also was Bledsoesque in being slow at some reads, or at least not as fast as he normally is. Also, he was off and missed a couple of wide open receivers, sometimes badly. Of course the Giants insane pass rush and his ankle played a big part, but that explains Brady's performance, but doesnt excuse it...there is a difference.

    As for Bellichick, he is supposed to be some defensive guru. So when the defense fails in the last drive, its the players not making the plays...but when the defense would make huge stands and shutdown Manning in '03 and '04 it was Bellichicks scheming?? The guys who I believe really get dismissed in all this are the defensive players, all their great efforts are credited to Bellichick, and all big wins where they carried the team, not the offense, are somehow credited to Brady anyway. Dont get me wrong, we're talking about the best coach and QB in the game...and to be fair I think I did see a thread devoted to BB taking some blame for the recent playoffs losses. But with all these threads blaming everyone from the OL to the defense to Moss to McDaniels, the blame needs to be spread around to the guys who get all the glory as well. I know this is a touchy subject lol, but just callin a spade a spade fellas.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  2. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    I think those two have gotten their share of the blame for the SB. Especially BB.

    Brady has gotten a little more of a pass because of his injury. Most people realize the lack of offensive production was why they lost and Brady has to share that blame.
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can't comment on Brady much because I haven't watched the game since seeing it live so it's tough to say.

    Belichick and his D - well there's the reality that we would have won the last two SB had the defense been able to stop a drive each time. However there's also the reality that there's players that need to make plays too. If the $10M man cathches the INT, we win. If we get the sack on the play to Tyree it's 4th and 17. If that ball is incomplete it's 4th and 10. That drive was more about players not making plays than not being in position to make plays.
  4. jeffd

    jeffd Rookie

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    Brady wasn't perfect. I wouldn't say he played poorly.

    BB got outcoached badly but on Off, not Def. If you only give up 17 pts you should win. Not to mention on the last drive your teams best corner (Samuel) has a shot at a tough INT and misses. Then your best Safety (Harrison) drops an easy INT as well as Meriweather. Poor tackling on the pass rush and a 1 in 1 million play by the offense. Can't blame the last drive on the coaches.
  5. Watson's IQ

    Watson's IQ Rookie

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    It was obviously not his best game, we all know that. It's not that they're immune from criticism, but BB and Brady (and Kraft, for that matter) have done so much for this franchise that they have earned a lifetime pass from me. Even if I don't agree with every single decision, I still trust them 100% with the direction of each individual game and the franchise in general. They've earned that.
  6. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    This is a lame thread - among a sea of the same - not because we don't think Brady and BB should shoulder a good part of the blame, but because they DO, and they HAVE. Dozens of us have said that Brady and Belichick played prominent roles in that loss.

    Good God, you people. Please, PLEASE - get thee to KFFL.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  7. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    fine thread...one thing

    the OL and brady both deserve blame for the offense

    the defense however, the scheme and all, allowed the players to make THREE picks to put the game away
    it was one sack from putting the game away by the DL...
    it was one pass deflected by rodney...

    the scheme BB created put our players in AMAZING positions to make FIVE plays to finish the game, our players did not step up to make the plays...that is NOT bb's fault, and hence he does not deserve any blame for how the defense worked...maybe for the offense, but not the defense, thats all on the players
  8. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

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    There's nothing "fine" about this thread.
  9. bitsygirl

    bitsygirl Rookie

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    I don't care who you blame on the SB loss,(BB or TB) but I, for one will never get over it!! I still don't know what happened??
  10. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

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    your D technically doesn't really deserve any blame aside from asante screwing up on the final drive

    you held the giants to 17 points which is an accomplishment seeing as they scored 30+ on NE the last time

    it's just the giants D had a much bigger accomplishment that day.

    if anyone's to blame it's the lack of change of playcalling going into the 2nd half (and even earlier) to account for the passrush

    NE just looked like a team , in the sb, till their next to final drive, who had the mindset that they could go deep anytime they wanted, and they weren't going to abandon that thought process, and adjust to the giants front 7
  11. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

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    The Pats didn't make enough plays to win and the Giants did. That's what happened. That's all that happened.
  12. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rookie

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    We should obviously draft a QB! ;)

    Bottom line is 7 years as a starter and he has taken this team to 5 AFC Championships. 3 Super Bowl victories. Anything less than giving him a pass for an injury and getting his arse slammed into the ground over and over is just stupidity at this point. We have facts and past performances to back this up by the way. Prior to the 'injury' he went 26-28 against a good to great Jags defense and was the league MVP with 50 TD's. He was obviously hurt! He doesn't go from Joe Montana to Ryan Leaf overnight. There was a reason for it and yeah, I will give him a pass for sub par play against SD and NY. What is wrong with that????

    BB on the other hand was outcoached. It doesn't happen very often, but in the SB he was indeed beat. Does it mean he now all of a sudden s**ks? Hella no! BB and TB are still the best in the business. If we won every game, every year including the SB, where would be the fun in that? We wouldn't have these lame blame threads and stupid conspiracy theories to fodder all off season long.

    God, please let July come QUICKLY!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  13. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Not too mention 4 penalties on one fated 3rd down play in one of the biggest game perhaps to change the history of the sport. Then stupid SI places a huge full living color picture of the blatant hold in the feature article.

    Cousins, I have to ask the question. If that was the Pats holding and we won the game and there is this picture for the world to see of one (there were four by the Giants on that play) of the illegal (say, is that cheating?) plays never called by Carey and his merry band of zebras, let's take a vote as to how badly we would be torched. President wantabe Osama and "Crazy Hips Clinton" would have us in a national "time out" now with BB sent to the gallows or at least a public flogging in Indianapolis (Or Philly).
    DW Toys
  14. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    As I said in the playcalling thread, although I'd blame the coaches primarily for failing to utilize Stallworth as a deep threat - especially when Moss was consistently faced with double coverage - Brady DOES bear responsibility as well.

    But if he's making the calls at the line of scrimmage the coaches bear the primary responsibility to sit Brady down and help him understand how using Stallworth as a deep threat actually will stretch the field more, and in turn limit the coverage devoted to Moss.

    Whoever is to "blame" the fact that Stallworth caught only 4 passes during the entire regular season that were more than 20 yards was a strategic mistake in my opinion.

    The prospect of having two deep threats on the field at the same time, forcing Defenses to pick their poison is precisely what excited so many of us at the time of Moss' signing. And yet McDaniels or never really chose to exploit that.

    Or rather, he only chose to exploit that 4 times in the entire season.

    It's the coaches who I expect to make note of these things and convince their QB to engage a strategy that will help them over time, but of course I have no way of knowing what was discussed in strategy sessions with Brady and the coaches.
  15. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Before you make up comments like Brady missed on passes and badly, take a look at the film. Brady missed passes when being hit while throwing the ball. It is impossible to be accurate when you are hit in the throwing motion. I saw exactly one pass that looked like a poor throw, to Welker on the sidelines, and Bradys reaction clearly made it look like he expected Welker to run the route deeper.
    Can we please refrain from making things up in order to write a post, when they are right there on film to see?
  16. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Let's put it this way, Brady is very low on the list of who to blame for the loss, and if they had won, Brady would have been very high on the list of who was responsible for the win. He played a good game, it wasn't his best game by any stretch, but he was under assault the entire game.

    Brady put the team in a position to win. He gave the team the lead with under 3 minutes to go.

    If we're assigning blame for the loss, the Giants can take first prize. They outplayed us. After that, you gotta look to the OLine for deciding to get the shy beaten out of them on every play, and then maybe to the coaching staff for not coming up with successful adjustments to compensate for the shytiness of the O-Line, along with the iffy all-out blitz call and the head-scratcher on 4th & 13

    But if you're saying that Brady and BB get the benefit of the doubt, I think it's because they've earned it at this point.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  17. MoLewisrocks

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    How the hell are we supposed to back into our indivudual critical amatuer conclusions if we are limited to the facts as they exist on film...:rolleyes:

    Brady calls the mike, he doesn't set the protections - that is Koppen's job. Brady calls the play in the huddle based on what his OC is sending in which is based on the game plan for down, distance and defense. That game plan is a collaborative effort based on film study of the Giants, Bill's input on their likely defense, Brady's comfort level with individual plays and players, prior game and practice performance impacting personnel packages, health of available players prior to and in game. Brady adjusts actual plays at the line only if the defense he's presented is different than expected and he sees a favorable matchup he can adjust to with the personnel package already on the field. Receivers and linemen are expected to sight adjust to coverage post snap as does Brady. If one guy gets the adjustment wrong the entire play can become toast. You can seldom diagnose who or what went wrong absent coaches film.

    No QB in the league today calls his own game, including Peyton Manning. That is because personnel packages often dictate/limit available calls on any given snap. Manning gets sent in 2 plays from which to choose to audible although he can also audible out to something entirely different within the constraints of who is on the field with him. Although the Colts don't sub package nearly as often as we do. And yet he misses receivers a lot these days probably because his injury replacement players aren't quite up to the task.

    Brady sending Stallworth deep to beat the double coverage on Moss is retarded... It wasn't that Moss couldn't beat the double team, it was that Brady didn't have time to make any downfield throw without getting smacked in the mouth 3 out of 4 times...:violent:

    Welker tied the superbowl records of Jerry Rice and Deion Branch for SB receptions. Unfortunately it wasn't enough. Other short options were so well covered they either resulted in too little yardget to extend drives or at times little or no yardage in part because things like screens actually take time to set up and Brady didn't have that and the Giants were defending short exceptionally well and dropping those targets at or barely beyond the LOS.

    For whatever reason or a number of reasons the OL **** the bed. They lost the one on one physical battles at the LOS for all but the first series before the Giants got dialed in and the second to last series when the Giants D was gassed AND they make a substitution error on punt coverage that forced them back onto the field. They didn't execute the correct call or they got the call wrong or the Giants were able to disguise their limited blitzes so well that they could not adjust post snap to pick up the extra man because they were struggling just to block 4. Yet the kill skippy crowd wants to blame anyone but those linemen and their long time coach and assistant HC...and heaven forbid credit the Giants D for remaining consistent and committed to executing their DC's game plan.

    Belichick was far more concerned with his defense, as well he should have been following that opening 10 minute clock eating drive. He appeared to have gotten that leak in the dyke patched while his offense marched down the field for a first drive score to take the lead. But then Spagnuolo got his defense on track too, and both remained there until Belichick's D gave up back to back TD drives in the 4th quarter. Belichick's O managed to sandwich a go ahead drive in between as the Giants D was finally gassed after 3 quarters of shutout defense had them sucking fumes. Our offense didn't get a legit shot at another drive because their defense couldn't get off the field for two and a half minutes with only three minutes and change left in the game. They had their chances, which is a sign of good coaching, but the players in position could not make the play, period.

    You could say the same thing on offense - the game plan was sound - receivers could get open deep and open in the mid range. Problem was Brady was under so much pressure he couldn't get many of those kinds of throw off cleanly. As Manning would say, Brady had protection problems - and that was a result of an Oline who simply couldn't make/hold their blocks consistently. It wasn't scheme correctable because it wasn't one weak link we could support with a TE (although they weren't having a great day either...). The entire line had it's struggles, from the usual suspects to the guys you never worry about. Coaches can't overcome that, so they tried to merely hang on assuming the Giants would eventually run out of gas. They did, just a little too late, or a little too early - depending on how you want to look at the last several minutes of the game.

    And yet, we were one key stop or one makeable FG not attempted from winning our 4th Superbowl in 7 years. Yeah, lets blame skippy...
  18. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    The fun it that would be at the Super Bowl every year, The new banner ever year, bling bling, DVDs to watch, Hats, Tshirts, and anything else you may have enjoyed during other winning seasons.
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