Brace

[Sicilian]

You think saying that he isn't guaranteed a roster spot is extreme? To say that he's not one of the top 5 DL on the roster right now - that's a fact. You would have to agree. He reportedly failed a conditioning test. We don't know the reason, but whatever it is, it's not good for him.

Does his 2nd round draft status factor into his situation? I'm sure it does. But not to the point where he would make the team automatically. Bottom line - Brace needs to show progress during the next 2 weeks and he'll probably have a roster spot. If not, he might not. That's what I call the bubble.

I haven't seen anything from Deaderick of Lewis that puts them clearly ahead of Brace on the depth chart. I would agree that right now Wilfork, Warren, Wright, and Pryor are ahead, but that still leaves Brace as potentially number 5.

So no, it is not a FACT that he is not top five. It is your opinion.

Also, people fail conditioning tests for a lot of reasons, including injury. The fact that the Patriots don't release this information is the reason we get people automatically assuming that it was due to not being shape (and by proxy, he must not have the work ethic to succeed in the NFL).

People apparently forgot the story about how Antowan Smith used to fail the conditioning run too, because it's the same run for every back no matter how big a guy you are. Perhaps being one of the bigger DL he struggled, or maybe he was hurt, we don't know.

The fact is he failed it. Your opinion is that it indicates anything as to his roster status.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I watched and re-watched Brace in slow-mo to grade his play.

I don't know what others were seeing but I will say this. Brace had a spectacular game as a NT. He was immovable and shut down the running game directed at him and produced stats that are enormous for a stay home tackle. This was measuring him as a 2 gap read & react lineman.

A good NT get few tackles; his job is to soak up blockers and not be moved. Forcing a Fumble in the backfield is a highlight play for a NT,akin to scoring a TD. Doing it not over the Center position, but over the OT position, is pure spectacular, as that is well out side the box a NT plays in. Watching him shed a G like he was swatting a fly, on his way to the ballcarrier was awesome.

He was not much as a penetrating Pass Rusher, but Belichick and the Pats don't want, or need that from him.

Off his one performance I would say he is already the second best run stuffer that the Pats have, surpassed only by Wilfork and easily the equal of the Ty Warren of the past two or three seasons, but not before or how a fully repaired Ty Warren should be next season.

Wilfork and Brace have closed two of the three DL positions against the run. The Coaches merely have to find one more from among the other 5 candidates. Off what I've seen G Warren is that third guy; but Damione Lewis did not play. Mo Pryor had his occasional moments, and Deadrick tried too. The run Defense issue is now partially solved, just like the OLB issue has been muted.

I still with hold judgment about the D line Pass Rush, and overall depth. Don't forget their sack quota is about a dozen per season, and Wright can only supply half of that at most.

When are the loudmouth Brace detractors, who were proved totally wrong, in Brace's first sophomore outing, going to withdraw their BUST comments?

 

[italian pat patriot]

i was happy when i noted that he caused the fumble

let's hope it will be his real beginning in NE

 

[Sicilian]

I watched and rewatched Brace in slo-mo to grade hisi play.

I don't know what others were seeing but I will say this. Brace had a spectacular game as a NT. He was immovable and shut down ther running game directed at him and produced stats that are enormous for a stay home tackle. This was measuring him as a 2 gap read & react lineman.

He was not much as a penetrating Pass Rusher, but Belichick and the Pats don't want, or need that from him.

Off his one performance I would say he is already the second best run stuffer that the Pats have, surpassed only by Wilfork and easily the equal of the Ty Warren of the past two or three seasons.

Wilfork and Brace have closed two of the three DL positions against the run. The Coaches merely have to find one more from among the other 5 candidates. Off what I've seen G Warren is that third guy; but Damione Lewis did not play, and Mo Pryor had his occasional moments,and Deadrick tried. The run Defense issue is now partially solved, just like the OLB issue has been muted.

I still with hold judgement about the D line Pass Rusuh, and overall depth.

When are the loudmouth Brace retractors, who were proved totally wrong, in Brace's first sophomore outing, going to withdraw their BUST comments?

I think this is jumping the gun. First, Brace didn't play NT in that game, he played LE. Pryor was at the nose. Second, he was playing against the second string of the Falcons, and they had some running success, so you can't say he's even the second best run stuffer on this team, let alone akin to Ty Warren (a pro-bowler, and he didn't get there because of his brilliant pass rush. He's a bull against the run).

Brace had a good game considering he missed the first 22 practices. Let's be happy with that, there's no need to blow him up to more than he is just to silence the nay-sayers.

 

[mcsully]

You think saying that he isn't guaranteed a roster spot is extreme? To say that he's not one of the top 5 DL on the roster right now - that's a fact. You would have to agree

I don't.. thats why I'm posting In my eyes we are keeping 6 DL and given a few more weeks of practice, there might be a conversation about him being a top 3 DL

He reportedly failed a conditioning test. We don't know the reason, but whatever it is, it's not good for him.

I agree with you but injuries are part of the game.. And I look at the fact he did not have injury issues last year that cause him not to play.. IMHO more of an adjustment to the NFL

Does his 2nd round draft status factor into his situation? I'm sure it does.

It certainly does for many facts. 1 being the value of his contract. 2. being the value of being a big man, something we desperately need with Warren going down and us playing a 3-4.... 3. In his 1st game, after missing 22 practices, he FF.. Its a small sample but hopefully he'll build on it.

But not to the point where he would make the team automatically. Bottom line - Brace needs to show progress during the next 2 weeks and he'll probably have a roster spot. If not, he might not. That's what I call the bubble.

So to apply your thinking to another position, would we cut Price if he had ONE catch the entire preseason and keep Jenkins because he had 10 catches? We kept Crable for 3 years because BB saw something and used a 1st day pick on the guy.. Same as Brace... And now with the loss of Warren, I can't see us getting rid of him..

 

[patfanken]

I don't understand the hate on Brace. Do you guys REALLY think BB would tolerate a healthy guy who needed over a month to pass a conditioning test that you or I could pass if we had over a month to get in shape for it.

The guy clearly looks like he changed his body for the better this off season. Does anyone disagree???? So he obviously wasn't lazy. Why don't the haters just admit it that he was hurt those first 4 weeks of camp and COULDN'T pass the test.

Instead the hateful, chose to listen to an unsubstantiated report that just stated that he wasn't playing because he hadn't passed his conditioning test. It never said WHY he hadn't passed it. It just allowed the hateful to make the ASSUMPTION.....and they did.

BTW- Brace had to go almost 15 yds down the line inorder to make the first hit and strip the ball on that run. It wasn't just a big man's play. It was a big athletic man's play.

Now I don't know how the Brace saga will end up, but from the brief glimpse I saw last night, it looks a lot better than last year.

 

[mcsully]

Brace had a good game considering he missed the first 22 practices. Let's be happy with that, there's no need to blow him up to more than he is just to silence the nay-sayers.

Agree with you 100%.. Baby Steps for Brace..

 

[patfanken]

BTW- here is link to the Brace highlight from NFL.com.

It looks to me that he was playing DT over the RG in a 4-3 alignment The play was a run to the left, and he was either slanting in the direction of the play or made a great read. He makes the initial contact and the ball was loose, when #71 cleaned up.

NFL Videos: Patriots force fumble

 

[Ungeheuer]

I watched and re-watched Brace in slow-mo to grade his play.

I don't know what others were seeing but I will say this. Brace had a spectacular game as a NT. He was immovable and shut down the running game directed at him and produced stats that are enormous for a stay home tackle. This was measuring him as a 2 gap read & react lineman.

A good NT get few tackles; his job is to soak up blockers and not be moved. Forcing a Fumble in the backfield is a highlight play for a NT,akin to scoring a TD. Doing it not over the Center position, but over the OT position, is pure spectacular, as that is well out side the box a NT plays in. Watching him shed a G like he was swatting a fly, on his way to the ballcarrier was awesome.

He was not much as a penetrating Pass Rusher, but Belichick and the Pats don't want, or need that from him.

Off his one performance I would say he is already the second best run stuffer that the Pats have, surpassed only by Wilfork and easily the equal of the Ty Warren of the past two or three seasons, but not before or how a fully repaired Ty Warren should be next season.

Wilfork and Brace have closed two of the three DL positions against the run. The Coaches merely have to find one more from among the other 5 candidates. Off what I've seen G Warren is that third guy; but Damione Lewis did not play. Mo Pryor had his occasional moments, and Deadrick tried too. The run Defense issue is now partially solved, just like the OLB issue has been muted.

I still with hold judgment about the D line Pass Rush, and overall depth. Don't forget their sack quota is about a dozen per season, and Wright can only supply half of that at most.

When are the loudmouth Brace detractors, who were proved totally wrong, in Brace's first sophomore outing, going to withdraw their BUST comments?

Brace had a good game, but I didn't see him on the nose even once. He was mostly at end all night. I saw him line up in the guard-center gap in a 4-3 a few times -- is that what you mean?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

For clarification purposes, I believe NE initially reported Brace had failed his physical, which is generally injury related and probably was, considering all the reports that had Ron working with the trainers during practices. For whatever reason failing his physical morphed into failing his conditioning test, which has taken on a life of it's own with media and posters complaining about an unsubstantiated work ethic problem. Such is life.

 

[RayClay]

For clarification purposes, I believe NE initially reported Brace had failed his physical, which is generally injury related and probably was, considering all the reports that had Ron working with the trainers during practices. For whatever reason failing his physical morphed into failing his conditioning test, which has taken on a life of it's own with media and posters complaining about an unsubstantiated work ethic problem. Such is life.

One of our esteemed and highly paid wordsmiths said, regarding a different player, that he had been told that failing the conditioning test could sometimes be considered failing the physical.

He therefore conclude that, since it could be then, it must be here, therefore Brace failed his conditioning test.

I'm not kidding, I read this from the Herald, I think.

Most of the sports writing in this town is a disgrace. It's the same as a lot of journalism. It's story based and the facts will not impinge on the ability to create controversy regarding the "story".

Brace was a lazy tub of goo was the story and most writers, who knew better, went along.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Brace had a good game, but I didn't see him on the nose even once. He was mostly at end all night. I saw him line up in the guard-center gap in a 4-3 a few times -- is that what you mean?

Of course. The middle lineman, aka DT, aka NG, aka NT, doesn't always play the Zero. He can shade either way, or he can play over either G, in a shift too. Calling it a 4-3 because the LB was on the line is exaggerating it as a 4-3, a mite.

 

[Deus Irae]

Brace demonstrating the ability to play DE would be an enormous boon to this team's defense. His ability to play NT would be even better.

 

[bucky]

I haven't seen anything from Deaderick of Lewis that puts them clearly ahead of Brace on the depth chart. I would agree that right now Wilfork, Warren, Wright, and Pryor are ahead, but that still leaves Brace as potentially number 5.

So no, it is not a FACT that he is not top five. It is your opinion.

I agree with you on Deaderick. But with respect to Lewis - he was brought in here to replace Green as a 3rd down pass rusher. That, plus the fact that he has been quite successful in the NFL puts him ahead of Brace right now.

Also, people fail conditioning tests for a lot of reasons, including injury. The fact that the Patriots don't release this information is the reason we get people automatically assuming that it was due to not being shape (and by proxy, he must not have the work ethic to succeed in the NFL).

People apparently forgot the story about how Antowan Smith used to fail the conditioning run too, because it's the same run for every back no matter how big a guy you are. Perhaps being one of the bigger DL he struggled, or maybe he was hurt, we don't know.

The fact is he failed it. Your opinion is that it indicates anything as to his roster status.

I'm not assuming that he failed the test without a good reason. What I'm saying, though, is that for whatever reason, he missed a majority of TC. Last year he wasn't able to get on the field. So he's got a limited amount of time to actually show he's improved over last year. That's a fact.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree with you on Deaderick. But with respect to Lewis - he was brought in here to replace Green as a 3rd down pass rusher. That, plus the fact that he has been quite successful in the NFL puts him ahead of Brace right now...

Lewis had 0.5 sacks last season. His career high is 5 sacks, back in 2004. If he was brought in to replace Green as a 3rd down pass rusher, people need to be fired. Immediately.

 

[bucky]

I don't.. thats why I'm posting In my eyes we are keeping 6 DL and given a few more weeks of practice, there might be a conversation about him being a top 3 DL

I hope you're right. But that's purely your opinion. He has 2 weeks to show what he's got.

It certainly does for many facts. 1 being the value of his contract. 2. being the value of being a big man, something we desperately need with Warren going down and us playing a 3-4.... 3. In his 1st game, after missing 22 practices, he FF.. Its a small sample but hopefully he'll build on it.

So to apply your thinking to another position, would we cut Price if he had ONE catch the entire preseason and keep Jenkins because he had 10 catches? We kept Crable for 3 years because BB saw something and used a 1st day pick on the guy.. Same as Brace... And now with the loss of Warren, I can't see us getting rid of him..

I'm not sure how the uncapped year would change the cap hit resulting from him being cut. But that's 1 possible difference from before. I'm glad you actually brought up Crable. I predicted after the 3rd preseason game last year that Carble wouldn't make the 53. He went on the IR and came back this year as useless as before. I'm NOT predicting this for Brace. I'm just saying he needs to show something over the next 2 weeks. He was not bad yesterday, so it's definitely a start.

 

[bucky]

Lewis had 0.5 sacks last season. His career high is 5 sacks, back in 2004. If he was brought in to replace Green as a 3rd down pass rusher, people need to be fired. Immediately.

Sacks are not the only indicator of pass-rushing ability, as you well know. According to ProFootballFocus - which is now a pay site, but wasn't at the end of last year - he had 20+ QB pressures last year, if memory server. Which is a lot more than Jarvis had last year. I also remember BB - when asked what he's doing to fix the pass rush during the offseason - referencing Lewis as a guy he thought would help the inside rush.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sacks are not the only indicator of pass-rushing ability, as you well know. According to ProFootballFocus - which is now a pay site, but wasn't at the end of last year - he had 20+ QB pressures last year, if memory server. Which is a lot more than Jarvis had last year. I also remember BB - when asked what he's doing to fix the pass rush during the offseason - referencing Lewis as a guy he thought would help the inside rush.

BB says a lot of things. If he really signed Lewis to serve as the 3rd down pass rushing specialist, I hope he's since gotten into a 12 step program, because he must have been either drunk or high.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Sacks are not the only indicator of pass-rushing ability, as you well know.

That can hold true for a season or two, sure, due to small sample size. But when a guy has had pedestrian sack totals for five consecutive years, that probably means he doesn't rush the passer very well.

 

[mcsully]

I hope you're right. But that's purely your opinion. He has 2 weeks to show what he's got.



I'm not sure how the uncapped year would change the cap hit resulting from him being cut. But that's 1 possible difference from before. I'm glad you actually brought up Crable. I predicted after the 3rd preseason game last year that Carble wouldn't make the 53. He went on the IR and came back this year as useless as before. I'm NOT predicting this for Brace. I'm just saying he needs to show something over the next 2 weeks. He was not bad yesterday, so it's definitely a start.

I'll go with some of that....