Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeShmoe, Aug 20, 2010.
Didnt see the game last night. How did he do (considering he missed a lot of TC)
I think the jury is still out. He was involved in a strip sack, but imo he also looked a bit lost on some plays.
I watched Brace in the second half, he was lined up at LDE next to Pryor a lot. He was okay, got some pressure at times, you could see him trying.
To these eyes Brace's timing was very slow yesterday, he got off the line well after the other linemen on almost every play, it was very noticable. I don't know enough to know if that's timing or effort or simply slower reflexes but it was quite noticable.
Exactly. That can hopefully be corrected quickly. To me he looked like he was able to beat the 1-1 blocks regularly, but making the tackle was more challenging for Brace. Also, not sure how good the backup RT was that he's going against. But based on that performance I'd say he's on the bubble.
I think Brace is doomed to a life of fan hatred. I thought he played well for just coming back, he had a really nice strip.
Yes, he was so slow off the ball that I was wondering if that was coaching--i.e. he was told to take his time to read and react. Might be the best way for him to learn, I don't know.
It looks to me like Brace is thinking out there and putting forth some good effort. As stated by others, he looked slow off the ball and hopefully more game time and a better understanding of the playbook will allow him to not think as much and just react.
There is potential there for him to be add quality depth or even (dare I say it) a starting position in the future. Of course, I preface the starting comment with the fact that he has a long way to go but I do see the potential there.
You guys DID see him move down the line, from over the Right Tackle to cause the fumble on the Left side of the line? He looked to be moving OK on that one.
I think that's fair. Though I think that's something that will improve with more reps, seeing as he missed most of camp and the first preseason game. I think in those circumstances, his performance was pretty good. I'd like to see him get some time with Warren and Wilfork on the 1's to see what he can do, but that won't happen in the third preseason game (where the starters play the most). Maybe in the last preseason game he can work his way up there, if he continues to improve.
Couple things I did notice though as an aside. He DEFINITELY looks quicker overall this year than last year, so I think his offseason efforts shouldn't really be questioned as they have been. And I thought Deaderick looked slower off the snap than Brace did at times.
Lead all defensive lineman with 3 tackles, also forced a fumble.
He's on the bubble? Seriously.. Brace is starting his second year and people think the Pats are going to dump him? Esp with the loss of Ty Warren?? Get real..
Here is a list of DL drafted in 09 & 08 in the first and second round that would play in our 3/4..
Tyson Jackson -showed nothing in 14 starts.. 38 tackles and 0 sacks
Raji - Looked great at times but would have never gotten him
Hood - 16 games, 1 sack 8 tackles
Look at the 08 draft
Long - probably play OLB but he's shown nothing
Dorsey - bum
Jackson - traded
Balmer - traded
Merling - basically going to get released
The point is, most DL take time to develop (learn the speed of the game and their assignment). Brace is 23 years old and going into his 2nd full season.. TO say its time to dump him or he's on the bubble is joke.. if you want to say your disappointed with his play, then go back and look at what else was drafted and look at the production.. the only thing fans should be disappointed about is the fact he started off not practicing and took sometime to come back..
Given that he is in the same spot the other DTs were the third or fourth day of training camp, and he is playing against guys who have the benefit of ramping up the past three weeks, he did better than I thought he would.
He is going to be slow at first because he is thinking. My guess is to hold off judgment until preseason game 4, when he is mor in the flow of the game. At that point I hope he looks good on the field.
But I agree with the poster who said Brace is doomed. It will be the Maroney debate all over again.
Fan Group X: "Brace is fat and slow."
Fan Group Y: "What? He lead all DTs in tackles, plus he slid off multiple blocks to move down the line and strip the ball."
Fan Group X: "Brace is fat and slow. Plus, Maroney is made of glass."
repeat ad nauseum.
He looked a little rusty getting off the ball but did well against second string competition. Not bad considering he started practicing this week.
The best thing you can take away at this time is that he has something to build on, and he is a big dude. We need big dudes.
He was one of my 'ups' for the game, all things considered.
This makes sense to me because I could see him pause for what looked like significant time at the start of at least ten consecutive plays.
And I did see him move up and down the line okay, he moved laterally along the flow of the line and he appeared to fill his lanes correctly.
Brace has shown that he belongs on the team. He is a second year DL who is still developing. With Warren down, we certainly need the help. I don't think anyone but fans have trouble with his work ethic or progress.
At this point, I suspect that Brace is NOT on the bubble at all. We have the three W's as starters, plus the developing sophomores Pryor and Brace. Deaderick seems headed to the Practice Squad, but could beat out Lewis for the 6th DL roster spot.
This is all mostly irrelevant. What's relevant is where Brace is right now compared to the rest of the team and where BB projects him.
At the moment, the following people are ahead of him (IMO) - Wilfork, Wright, G. Warren, Pryor, Lewis. I also think Daederick is ahead of him as a pure DE. So he's definitely competing for a roster spot. Given where he was drafted, he will probably make the team. But it's not a guarantee.
What did you see from Deaderick that was better than what Brace gave you?
UGH.. Throw up some facts and base an opinion on it and I have to read a response like this...
As someone posted earlier, just a lot of banter without any facts.. Why I hardly post here
Not sure how you can base 1 week of practice as "competing for a roster spot".. This isn't chad jackson or kevin o'connell.. I hate to say it but as I stated before, look at the history of DL in the NFL. it takes time to adjust to the speed and assignments. Next to QB, DL is one of the toughest positions to adjust to..
& this is a guy that FF last.. Man I'm not even a huge promotor of him but to be on the other end so extreme is ridiculous
You think saying that he isn't guaranteed a roster spot is extreme? To say that he's not one of the top 5 DL on the roster right now - that's a fact. You would have to agree. He reportedly failed a conditioning test. We don't know the reason, but whatever it is, it's not good for him.
Does his 2nd round draft status factor into his situation? I'm sure it does. But not to the point where he would make the team automatically. Bottom line - Brace needs to show progress during the next 2 weeks and he'll probably have a roster spot. If not, he might not. That's what I call the bubble.
Yesterday, not a whole lot. They were both decent. I would just say that if Brace and Deaderick were in a dead heat, I would pick Deaderick. But that's just me. I think it'll all become more clear over the next 2 weeks. IMO, there's room for both of them on the 53.
I haven't seen anything from Deaderick of Lewis that puts them clearly ahead of Brace on the depth chart. I would agree that right now Wilfork, Warren, Wright, and Pryor are ahead, but that still leaves Brace as potentially number 5.
So no, it is not a FACT that he is not top five. It is your opinion.
Also, people fail conditioning tests for a lot of reasons, including injury. The fact that the Patriots don't release this information is the reason we get people automatically assuming that it was due to not being shape (and by proxy, he must not have the work ethic to succeed in the NFL).
People apparently forgot the story about how Antowan Smith used to fail the conditioning run too, because it's the same run for every back no matter how big a guy you are. Perhaps being one of the bigger DL he struggled, or maybe he was hurt, we don't know.
The fact is he failed it. Your opinion is that it indicates anything as to his roster status.
I watched and re-watched Brace in slow-mo to grade his play.
I don't know what others were seeing but I will say this. Brace had a spectacular game as a NT. He was immovable and shut down the running game directed at him and produced stats that are enormous for a stay home tackle. This was measuring him as a 2 gap read & react lineman.
A good NT get few tackles; his job is to soak up blockers and not be moved. Forcing a Fumble in the backfield is a highlight play for a NT,akin to scoring a TD. Doing it not over the Center position, but over the OT position, is pure spectacular, as that is well out side the box a NT plays in. Watching him shed a G like he was swatting a fly, on his way to the ballcarrier was awesome.
He was not much as a penetrating Pass Rusher, but Belichick and the Pats don't want, or need that from him.
Off his one performance I would say he is already the second best run stuffer that the Pats have, surpassed only by Wilfork and easily the equal of the Ty Warren of the past two or three seasons, but not before or how a fully repaired Ty Warren should be next season.
Wilfork and Brace have closed two of the three DL positions against the run. The Coaches merely have to find one more from among the other 5 candidates. Off what I've seen G Warren is that third guy; but Damione Lewis did not play. Mo Pryor had his occasional moments, and Deadrick tried too. The run Defense issue is now partially solved, just like the OLB issue has been muted.
I still with hold judgment about the D line Pass Rush, and overall depth. Don't forget their sack quota is about a dozen per season, and Wright can only supply half of that at most.
When are the loudmouth Brace detractors, who were proved totally wrong, in Brace's first sophomore outing, going to withdraw their BUST comments?
i was happy when i noted that he caused the fumble
let's hope it will be his real beginning in NE
I think this is jumping the gun. First, Brace didn't play NT in that game, he played LE. Pryor was at the nose. Second, he was playing against the second string of the Falcons, and they had some running success, so you can't say he's even the second best run stuffer on this team, let alone akin to Ty Warren (a pro-bowler, and he didn't get there because of his brilliant pass rush. He's a bull against the run).
Brace had a good game considering he missed the first 22 practices. Let's be happy with that, there's no need to blow him up to more than he is just to silence the nay-sayers.
I don't.. thats why I'm posting In my eyes we are keeping 6 DL and given a few more weeks of practice, there might be a conversation about him being a top 3 DL
I agree with you but injuries are part of the game.. And I look at the fact he did not have injury issues last year that cause him not to play.. IMHO more of an adjustment to the NFL
It certainly does for many facts. 1 being the value of his contract. 2. being the value of being a big man, something we desperately need with Warren going down and us playing a 3-4.... 3. In his 1st game, after missing 22 practices, he FF.. Its a small sample but hopefully he'll build on it.
So to apply your thinking to another position, would we cut Price if he had ONE catch the entire preseason and keep Jenkins because he had 10 catches? We kept Crable for 3 years because BB saw something and used a 1st day pick on the guy.. Same as Brace... And now with the loss of Warren, I can't see us getting rid of him..
I don't understand the hate on Brace. Do you guys REALLY think BB would tolerate a healthy guy who needed over a month to pass a conditioning test that you or I could pass if we had over a month to get in shape for it.
The guy clearly looks like he changed his body for the better this off season. Does anyone disagree???? So he obviously wasn't lazy. Why don't the haters just admit it that he was hurt those first 4 weeks of camp and COULDN'T pass the test.
Instead the hateful, chose to listen to an unsubstantiated report that just stated that he wasn't playing because he hadn't passed his conditioning test. It never said WHY he hadn't passed it. It just allowed the hateful to make the ASSUMPTION.....and they did.
BTW- Brace had to go almost 15 yds down the line inorder to make the first hit and strip the ball on that run. It wasn't just a big man's play. It was a big athletic man's play.
Now I don't know how the Brace saga will end up, but from the brief glimpse I saw last night, it looks a lot better than last year.
Agree with you 100%.. Baby Steps for Brace..
BTW- here is link to the Brace highlight from NFL.com.
It looks to me that he was playing DT over the RG in a 4-3 alignment The play was a run to the left, and he was either slanting in the direction of the play or made a great read. He makes the initial contact and the ball was loose, when #71 cleaned up.
NFL Videos: Patriots force fumble
Brace had a good game, but I didn't see him on the nose even once. He was mostly at end all night. I saw him line up in the guard-center gap in a 4-3 a few times -- is that what you mean?
For clarification purposes, I believe NE initially reported Brace had failed his physical, which is generally injury related and probably was, considering all the reports that had Ron working with the trainers during practices. For whatever reason failing his physical morphed into failing his conditioning test, which has taken on a life of it's own with media and posters complaining about an unsubstantiated work ethic problem. Such is life.
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