Box of Rocks

[bbell31]

Give me your ideal patriot offseason aqcuisitions and mock draft for the pats, also, who and where are the weakest spots on our team in your opinion right now

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

He likes Rodger Saffold the OT from Indiana and Koa Misi the DE/OLB from Utah a lot. He loves Chris Gocong on Philly too at the right price.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Box O Rocks,never heard of this player?...Where is he from?,what position does he play? and what round will he go in?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Ideal? I try not to get wrapped up in ideal.

Team Needs by priority (after Wilfork's franchise tag):
WR (2) -- Edelman & Tate need competition for slot, 3 & 4 WR options, as well as depth behind Moss. I'm also looking for improved competition for KR & PR.
DE (2) -- Re-signing Green would help, but at least one youngster in the first/second rounds is needed.
OLB (2) -- Even re-signing both TBC/Burgess I'd like NE to draft at least two kids to develop.
OL -- Neal's replacement may be on the team, but this is a deep Tackle class for kids who can be kicked inside or developed as depth outside.
TE -- Competition for Agnone and Myers.
CB -- Bodden's situation impacts the priority here, but I'd like one late round CB for competition, Special Teams, and returner.
camp fodder -- Projects to push the back of the roster.

Re-signings: I'd welcome any of these players back.
Tully Banta-Cain, LB
Leigh Bodden, CB
Derrick Burgess, LB
Kevin Faulk, RB
Jarvis Green, DE
Chris Hanson, P
Stephen Neal, G
Ben Watson, TE
Vince Wilfork, DT √

Restricted: Tender all of these players.
Stephen Gostkowski, K
Logan Mankins, G
Chris Taylor, RB
Pierre Woods, LB
Gary Guyton, LB
Bret Lockett, S

Gocong is one RFA I'd be interested in for NE. I'm not sold on the UFAs available.

Mock...

As of today I'd draft (using the AdamJT13 projected 7th round comp picks):
1. DE Jared Odrick or Cory Wooton
2a. WR Mardy Gilyard
2b. OLB Koa Misi
2c. OL Roger Saffold
--- Ideally trade down with the seconds to pick up enough ammo for a third and draft LB Eric Norwood.
4. CB Javier Arenas
6. WR Marcus Easley
7a. & 7b. pooled to try and trade back into the 6th. TE Jim Dray
7c. OLB Danny Batten
7d. RB Pat Paschall
7e. DL Corey Peters
7f. DL Jay Ross

 

[captain stone]

Ideal? I try not to get wrapped up in ideal.

Team Needs by priority (after Wilfork's franchise tag):
WR (2) -- Edelman & Tate need competition for slot, 3 & 4 WR options, as well as depth behind Moss. I'm also looking for improved competition for KR & PR.
Agreed; Bill needs to draft a WR who can play the #2 this year, and the #1 next year.

DE (2) -- Re-signing Green would help, but at least one youngster in the first/second rounds is needed.
Agreed, though I would re-sign Jarvis for the vet minimum only. Besides, didn't he profess a wish to play for the Saints? They can have him, and we'll take the 2011 comp instead.

OLB (2) -- Even re-signing both TBC/Burgess I'd like NE to draft at least two kids to develop.
I think we all agree with this one.

OL -- Neal's replacement may be on the team, but this is a deep Tackle class for kids who can be kicked inside or developed as depth outside.
If Kaczur can show potential at RG during OTAs (if Bill even tries him there), then I would concentrate on upgrading the Center position. Maurkice Pouncey with our #22?

TE -- Competition for Agnone and Myers.
A young TE with blocking skills would be preferable.

CB -- Bodden's situation impacts the priority here, but I'd like one late round CB for competition, Special Teams, and returner.
Agreed.

Camp Fodder -- Projects to push the back of the roster.

Re-signings: I'd welcome any of these players back.
Tully Banta-Cain, LB - Yes
Leigh Bodden, CB - A Must-Have
Derrick Burgess, LB - vet minimum only
Kevin Faulk, RB - Absolutely; he needs to retire a Patriot
Jarvis Green, DE - see Derrick Burgess
Chris Hanson, P - NO
Stephen Neal, G - vet minimum only; too risky otherwise
Ben Watson, TE - Yes
Vince Wilfork, DT √ - a long-term deal would be nicer

Restricted: Tender all of these players.
Stephen Gostkowski, K
Logan Mankins, G
Chris Taylor, RB - No
Pierre Woods, LB - Hell No
Gary Guyton, LB - only at low-round level
Bret Lockett, S - ditto

Gocong is one RFA I'd be interested in for NE. I'm not sold on the UFAs available.

Mock...

As of today I'd draft (using the AdamJT13 projected 7th round comp picks):
1. DE Jared Odrick or Cory Wooton
2a. WR Mardy Gilyard
2b. OLB Koa Misi - for Inside or Outside?
2c. OL Roger Saffold - at Tackle or Guard?
--- Ideally trade down with the seconds to pick up enough ammo for a third and draft LB Eric Norwood.
4. CB Javier Arenas
6. WR Marcus Easley - I def. think he's worth a shot, too
7a. & 7b. pooled to try and trade back into the 6th. TE Jim Dray - our blocking TE of the future
7c. OLB Danny Batten
7d. RB Pat Paschall
7e. DL Corey Peters
7f. DL Jay Ross
I need to read-up on these 7th-rounders.

What I want to know, Mr. Box, is why wasn't I asked?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

What I want to know, Mr. Box, is why wasn't I asked?

Most people are aware of your reticent nature and don't want to put you on the spot.

Agreed; Bill needs to draft a WR who can play the #2 this year, and the #1 next year.

Agreed, though I would re-sign Jarvis for the vet minimum only. Besides, didn't he profess a wish to play for the Saints? They can have him, and we'll take the 2011 comp instead. He expressed an interest in playing for NO if he wasn't re-signed by NE - we'll see what he finds on the market.

I think we all agree with this one.

If Kaczur can show potential at RG during OTAs (if Bill even tries him there), then I would concentrate on upgrading the Center position. Maurkice Pouncey with our #22? Center is fine.

A young TE with blocking skills would be preferable. I'll consider it.

Agreed.

Re-signings:
Tully Banta-Cain, LB - Yes
Leigh Bodden, CB - A Must-Have
Derrick Burgess, LB - vet minimum only With playing time/performance incentives
Kevin Faulk, RB - Absolutely; he needs to retire a Patriot
Jarvis Green, DE - see Derrick Burgess With playing time/performance incentives
Chris Hanson, P - NO is what I will be doing when he's re-signed.
Stephen Neal, G - vet minimum only; too risky otherwise With playing time incentives.
Ben Watson, TE - Yes
Vince Wilfork, DT √ - a long-term deal would be nicer Yep

Restricted:
Chris Taylor, RB - No Do you even know who he is?
Pierre Woods, LB - Hell No Remember when you felt that way about TBC?
Gary Guyton, LB - only at low-round level ERFA is a set price, but I'd extend him now.
Bret Lockett, S - ditto

Mock...

2b. OLB Koa Misi - for Inside or Outside?
2c. OL Roger Saffold - at Tackle or Guard? Yes
6. WR Marcus Easley - I def. think he's worth a shot, too
7a. & 7b. pooled to try and trade back into the 6th. TE Jim Dray - our blocking TE of the future
I need to read-up on these 7th-rounders.

 

[Metaphors]

Mock...

OK, if you insist.

As of today I'd draft (using the AdamJT13 projected 7th round comp picks):
1. DE Jared Odrick or Cory Wooton

Given how the draft is likely to fall, Odrick seems like the smartest pick at #22. But Wooten? That early? Seems more like a 3rd round talent or late 2nd at best. With that many picks in the 2nd round, plenty of opportunities to get him there.

2a. WR Mardy Gilyard

The value is fine, but I'm not convinced that is the best use for this pick. Plenty of WR depth so there should be some solid values later. You are picking for depth and #3/#4 competition. Why not do that later?

2b. OLB Koa Misi

I'm warming up to taking Misi here. I have no idea about his football smarts, but if he can handle multiple assignments he really could shine under Belichick.

2c. OL Roger Saffold

Again, no problem with the value. It just doesn't feel right for 2010. When Light moves on, pairing him with Vollmer could make Brady's golden years less painful.

4. CB Javier Arenas

Now you lost me. I want to send Wilhite packing, not get another one. Short with questionable catchup speed. He is a poor matchup for tall or fast receivers (which includes just about everyone).

6. WR Marcus Easley

OK, I'm back on board. Nice value at this spot with a huge upside.

Sticking with your theme, how about this?

1. DE Jared Odrick
2a. RB Dexter McCluster (let Faulk walk)
2b. LB Koa Misi - for Inside AND Outside!
2c. CB Donovan Warren
4. TE Dennis Pitta (OLB Austen Lane if he slips)
6. WR Marcus Easley

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

OK, if you insist.

Given how the draft is likely to fall, Odrick seems like the smartest pick at #22. But Wooten? That early? Seems more like a 3rd round talent or late 2nd at best. With that many picks in the 2nd round, plenty of opportunities to get him there.

I use NFLDS rankings and they have Wooton late first/early second. He's considered to be good against the run, a passing lane clogger, and does a nice job rushing the passer/collapsing the pocket.

The value is fine, but I'm not convinced that is the best use for this pick. Plenty of WR depth so there should be some solid values later. You are picking for depth and #3/#4 competition. Why not do that later?

NFLDS has him a late third, which seems odd with all the other sites raving about him - I've seen him play often enough to believe he's a good fit for NE - I can't say that about any other WR in this draft, even the kids I liked. With WR my #1 concern I prefer not to wait too long to draft a player I trust to fit.

I'm warming up to taking Misi here. I have no idea about his football smarts, but if he can handle multiple assignments he really could shine under Belichick.

I just checked my notes from the 2009 Sugar Bowl and I had him confused with another player in terms of his multiple assignments, not that he didn't play multiple assignments, just not all the roles I had thought he'd done. He's played DE & OLB for Utah in 4-3 and 3-4 sets - he seems able enough.

Again, no problem with the value. It just doesn't feel right for 2010. When Light moves on, pairing him with Vollmer could make Brady's golden years less painful.

There are other OT whom I'd be interested in later, but he's a 4-5 position guy in the Light/Mankins/Kaczur mold, why not take him?

Now you lost me. I want to send Wilhite packing, not get another one. Short with questionable catchup speed. He is a poor matchup for tall or fast receivers (which includes just about everyone).

McCluster meh. Here's your Kevin Faulk replacement - go look at the Senior Bowl around the two minute warning of the first half and watch him stone 245 lb. LeGarrette Blount as he burst around the edge from behind his blockers - stopped him cold. Arenas didn't bring him down alone, but Blount didn't gain another inch. Now reverse that and imagine a blitzing LB meeting a Kevin Faulk sized kid known for his own blitzing and his physicality... The kid's a Welker/Faulk/Brown-like PR, more quick than fast, makes people miss him in a phone booth. Develop Arenas as a third down back/receiver, red zone CB where his long speed shortfall isn't a factor, but his smarts and ball awareness and physical play work for him.

OK, I'm back on board. Nice value at this spot with a huge upside.

Sticking with your theme, how about this?

1. DE Jared Odrick
2a. RB Dexter McCluster (let Faulk walk) see Arenas
2b. LB Koa Misi - for Inside AND Outside! Him and Norwood and Batten
2c. CB Donovan Warren meh, if NE needs to replace Bodden go after McCourty earlier and draft Misi here.
4. TE Dennis Pitta (OLB Austen Lane if he slips) :confused2: TE just isn't that urgent, Dray or Quarless later work just fine.
6. WR Marcus Easley[/QUOTE]

 

[LuckyGandolff3x]

Gary Guyton, LB - only at low-round level ERFA is a set price, but I'd extend him now.

Just wanted to echo the idea of Guyton getting extended. I think people are forgetting that he was a starter the whole year, and if Bruschi hadn't retired, he still would've started in front of him. Bill loves this kid and I think he's going to have a breakout year for us.

And I love your Arenas pick! He reminds me of Ellis Hobbs III, exciting kick returner and SITUATIONAL[which is what Hobbs should have been] corner. Solid player, familiar with the system.

 

[captain stone]

Most people are aware of your reticent nature and don't want to put you on the spot.

This is true. My psycho-anal-ist says that using this forum is a good way to help me break out of my shell.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Koppen; but I am, shocked, shocked that you don't think I know that Chris Taylor was once property of the Boston Bruins during 1998-99 season.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

This is true. My psycho-anal-ist says that using this forum is a good way to help me break out of my shell.

*chuckles*

Box, I know you like Misi, and he does seem to have good athleticism, but I really worry about three things: 1) his relative lack of production for his position. I know sacks aren't everything when it comes to rushing the passer, but only 4 sacks in his senior year is a red flag for me. Yes, I know Matthews only had 4.5 his senior year, and he's done well in the NFL, but I think he's also the better athlete, and his scheme affords him more opportunities to attack than Misi would have here.

2) His inability to get off blocks worries me. He's very quick, but tends to get tied up until after the play has passed him by. Not always, of course, but often enough that it's a concern. I love Mayo, for example, but he's never going to take the next step as a 34 player until he can stack and shed on a regular basis.

3) Movement in the run game--he gets blown off the ball too frequently for my liking. Yes, he'd be standing up in our scheme, but he still has to set a hard edge. I don't know if he can do it consistently.

I do like the Saffold pick. He's growing on me, and I'm almost convinced we pick him up--I think he's a Kazcur/Light clone, but with potentially more upside.

Love the idea of Arenas as a third-down back, PR, and red zone corner. Think he'd be dynamite in that role.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

*chuckles*

Box, I know you like Misi, and he does seem to have good athleticism, but I really worry about three things: 1) his relative lack of production for his position. I know sacks aren't everything when it comes to rushing the passer, but only 4 sacks in his senior year is a red flag for me. Yes, I know Matthews only had 4.5 his senior year, and he's done well in the NFL, but I think he's also the better athlete, and his scheme affords him more opportunities to attack than Misi would have here.

2) His inability to get off blocks worries me. He's very quick, but tends to get tied up until after the play has passed him by. Not always, of course, but often enough that it's a concern. I love Mayo, for example, but he's never going to take the next step as a 34 player until he can stack and shed on a regular basis.

3) Movement in the run game--he gets blown off the ball too frequently for my liking. Yes, he'd be standing up in our scheme, but he still has to set a hard edge. I don't know if he can do it consistently.

I do like the Saffold pick. He's growing on me, and I'm almost convinced we pick him up--I think he's a Kazcur/Light clone, but with potentially more upside.

Love the idea of Arenas as a third-down back, PR, and red zone corner. Think he'd be dynamite in that role.

Once you get out of the first round, it's extremely rare to find an edge rusher who doesn't have "needs improvement at the point of attack" in his profile. Here's some more background:

Koa Misi, Utah, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

I specifically want to point you at the 12/21/09 - SENIOR BOWL INVITE news item under 'Latest News' after you click the link at the bottom of the box.

The Overview and Analysis also make for good reading. He was 6'2 3/4" 244 for the Senior Bowl and as you'll see in the Latest News he drew some positive attention there - recall he had a strip sack of Tebow rushing off the edge that turned into a North recovery. He mostly played OLB in a 4-3 at the Senior Bowl so he was out of position and still flashed some sizzle.

Guys like Jerry Hughes get reputations as strong edge rushers and that catches people's eyes - I try to look and see who has the best all-round game for their projected position on a NE team. Misi needs to bulk up at least another 10 lbs and work on his alternative pass rush moves, but he's ahead of Hughes - overall.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Box,

What do you think of Mitch Petrus, Jared Veldheer, and Kevin Matthews?

Those are my sleeper O-line prospects that have the most bang for the buck.

 

[dryheat44]

Box,

What do you think of Mitch Petrus, Jared Veldheer, and Kevin Matthews?

Those are my sleeper O-line prospects that have the most bang for the buck.

Veldheer's not a sleeper anymore. He'll probably be gone before Round 2 is over.

 

[Since1971]

Ideal? I try not to get wrapped up in ideal.

Team Needs by priority (after Wilfork's franchise tag):
WR (2) -- Edelman & Tate need competition for slot, 3 & 4 WR options, as well as depth behind Moss. I'm also looking for improved competition for KR & PR.
DE (2) -- Re-signing Green would help, but at least one youngster in the first/second rounds is needed.
OLB (2) -- Even re-signing both TBC/Burgess I'd like NE to draft at least two kids to develop.
OL -- Neal's replacement may be on the team, but this is a deep Tackle class for kids who can be kicked inside or developed as depth outside.
TE -- Competition for Agnone and Myers.
CB -- Bodden's situation impacts the priority here, but I'd like one late round CB for competition, Special Teams, and returner.
camp fodder -- Projects to push the back of the roster.

Re-signings: I'd welcome any of these players back.
Tully Banta-Cain, LB
Leigh Bodden, CB
Derrick Burgess, LB
Kevin Faulk, RB
Jarvis Green, DE
Chris Hanson, P
Stephen Neal, G
Ben Watson, TE
Vince Wilfork, DT √

Restricted: Tender all of these players.
Stephen Gostkowski, K
Logan Mankins, G
Chris Taylor, RB
Pierre Woods, LB
Gary Guyton, LB
Bret Lockett, S

Gocong is one RFA I'd be interested in for NE. I'm not sold on the UFAs available.

Mock...

As of today I'd draft (using the AdamJT13 projected 7th round comp picks):
1. DE Jared Odrick or Cory Wooton
2a. WR Mardy Gilyard
2b. OLB Koa Misi
2c. OL Roger Saffold
--- Ideally trade down with the seconds to pick up enough ammo for a third and draft LB Eric Norwood.
4. CB Javier Arenas
6. WR Marcus Easley
7a. & 7b. pooled to try and trade back into the 6th. TE Jim Dray
7c. OLB Danny Batten
7d. RB Pat Paschall
7e. DL Corey Peters
7f. DL Jay Ross

Good job. Odrick pick is gaining steam. Like Marcus Easley alot. Safford too, we need to improve both lines. Only question OLB Koa Misi, but this is semantics. I think they may trade one second to pick up a third and 4th/5th as well. It is alway interesting to see who slides into that top half of the 2nd round, its a tough call. Thanks for your posts, they are appreciated by all.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box,

What do you think of Mitch Petrus, Jared Veldheer, and Kevin Matthews?

Those are my sleeper O-line prospects that have the most bang for the buck.

Petrus appears to have the talent to be a good Zone Blocking Guard, though he's very raw at this point. Where I have a question about him is his ability to absorb a playbook since he's struggled academically which means Dante is going to be working him hard to see how much he can handle before drafting him.

Veldheer is a project, he may be developing well at his pre-Combine camp, based on potential he seems to have it, my big question is how much of a natural knee bender is he?

Kevin Matthews I have no opinion on, I can't remember him standing out against Michigan State, so he must have done okay.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Good job. Odrick pick is gaining steam. Like Marcus Easley alot. Safford too, we need to improve both lines. Only question OLB Koa Misi, but this is semantics. I think they may trade one second to pick up a third and 4th/5th as well. It is alway interesting to see who slides into that top half of the 2nd round, its a tough call. Thanks for your posts, they are appreciated by all.

De nada.

....

 

[StraightCashHomey81]

OK, if you insist.
Sticking with your theme, how about this?

1. DE Jared Odrick
2a. RB Dexter McCluster (let Faulk walk)
2b. LB Koa Misi - for Inside AND Outside!
2c. CB Donovan Warren
4. TE Dennis Pitta (OLB Austen Lane if he slips)
6. WR Marcus Easley

Am I the only one who doesn't see Odrick as a good fit? Or even a good player at all? PSU is more of a one-gap team and I have seen too much of Odrick being washed out of plays by mediocre OLs. He also plays out of control at times and whiffs on too many tackles. Furthermore, I know he is 6'5 300 lbs., but looking at his body type, he doesn't appear to have the "base" (i.e. big butt and legs) that other Patriots draft picks at the 5-technique like Warren, Seymour, Le Kevin Smith, Pryor, and Richard have.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Am I the only one who doesn't see Odrick as a good fit? Or even a good player at all? PSU is more of a one-gap team and I have seen too much of Odrick being washed out of plays by mediocre OLs. He also plays out of control at times and whiffs on too many tackles. Furthermore, I know he is 6'5 300 lbs., but looking at his body type, he doesn't appear to have the "base" (i.e. big butt and legs) that other Patriots draft picks at the 5-technique like Warren, Seymour, Le Kevin Smith, Pryor, and Richard have.

He seemed to do okay at the Senior Bowl, you will note I had an alternative DE in my mock. The question with trying to project a 4-3 DL into NE's 3-4 is looking for the skill set to develop - Odrick gets lots of credit for his hands and his quickness off the snap. He has decent natural strength that he currently uses in the pass rush or penetrating, it appears that he can be developed to play stronger at the point of attack. Platoon him with Mike Wright and/or Jarvis Green if he re-signs and he looks like he'll be up to speed in 2011.

At the same time I mocked two more DL in the 7th, Peters comes from the same coach who developed Pryor and is a little longer so he should be able to play outside too; Ross looked really strong at the point of attack against Arkansas in their bowl game, he could even spell inside at NT. Insurance to go with Wright and Richard on the roster.

I expect NE to do some horse-trading with those top four picks and land some extra picks at the end of the second and into the third - there are another half dozen DL projected in the mid-rounds whom NE could target as insurance (Deadrick, for example, is a 4th round projection Alabama DE experienced in the 3-4). I'm expecting NE to pick up another 10+ picks in this draft, like last year I see BB adding 2-3 DL.

 

[DaBruinz]

Am I the only one who doesn't see Odrick as a good fit? Or even a good player at all? PSU is more of a one-gap team and I have seen too much of Odrick being washed out of plays by mediocre OLs. He also plays out of control at times and whiffs on too many tackles. Furthermore, I know he is 6'5 300 lbs., but looking at his body type, he doesn't appear to have the "base" (i.e. big butt and legs) that other Patriots draft picks at the 5-technique like Warren, Seymour, Le Kevin Smith, Pryor, and Richard have.

A few things:
1) 99.9% of colleges play a 1 gap system regardless of whether they play the 3-4 or the 4-3. Wilfork, Warren and Seymour all came out of 1 gap systems.

2) Watching Odrick in the Senior Bowl, he reminded me a lot of Seymour coming out. As a 3-4 DE, he's not going to be expected to make a lot of tackles. He's going to be expected to tie up 1-2 O-linemen so that the LBs can shoot the gaps and make the plays.

3) A lot of players "play out of control". However, Odrick didn't show that in the Senior Bowl at all. On the contrary. He stuck to his assignments and did extremely well at using his hands to keep the O-line off him.