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Boeing, BOA, Wells Fargo, Exxon, GE,Citigroup all pay no federal taxes..

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Feb 27, 2011.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While the assault continues on the middle class in Wisconsin, and unions are demonized as the sole source of our economic woes, some of the biggest companies in the US pay no taxes.. interesting that we allow these folks to get away with this travesty, but blame the janitors and secretaries of Wisconsin for our budget woes..

    As far as I know state taxes are pretty much determined by how much taxable income you report, so take it from there..

    The rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer.. how much did the prez of BOA make last year, something like 30 Million.. something is very wrong here.

    ThinkProgress Home Page

    The Main Street Movement sounds interesting.. a very novel concept, everyone pay their fair share of taxes, fat cats also.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  2. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve In the Starting Line-Up

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    *sigh*

    The income tax is a travesty on our constitution.

    The IRS is an illegal shakedown service.

    Since this system isn't going away, a flat tax needs to be installed to replace the current formula. That would really benefit the true middle class most.
     
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The IRS code is 12k+ pages who do you think pays for that?

    Again businesses don't pay taxes, they collect taxes by building the taxes into the prices of their goods and services.

    I agree with shirtsleeve that the Income tax is horrible and the 16th amendment should be repealed IMO.

    Given that won't happen go to a Flat Tax a la Steve Forbes. Tax profits once by taxing the capital gains/dividends paid to shareholders as income. Tax the rich at the same time.

    But this would get rid of the class warfare canard the left loves so much.
     
  4. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    Lets also consider that the Argicultural business, Oil Industry and other Corporate power systems, all pay "DUES" to companies to lobby on their behalf for more subsides, more tax breaks, and more money.

    How is that any different than a Union?
     
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The union is seeking benefits/money from their employer (the taxpayer) and 99% of their political contributions go to 1 political party.

    Corporations are 'bribing' pols for competitive advantage (tax create regulatory barriers for my competitor not me) and protection from government. Their contributions are pretty much split to cover their bases no matter who is on power.

    This is why a flat tax would solve a lot of the business side of the corruption equation.

    Get rid of the tax code now.
     
  6. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    But it's the same idea...
    They lobby for more money and benefits, which comes back to them through government projects, which feeds more money into the corporation which they take those profits to buy more influence to ensure they get more breaks and projects, etc...

    There is no difference, the end result is the tax payer is the one who losses and the special interest wins.

    I agree we need a change in the tax code, why can't we the people get that moving forward???

    But I hate the way the media deominzes the Protests in WI, but doesn't give a damn how those same corporations who want to end Unions, act in the same exact way towards us the people when it comes to themselves getting tax payer money.
     
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I favor Steve Forbes Proposal.. very simple, accomplish two things seriously downsize the agencies involved with taxes and secondly, provide some equity to this incredibly inequitable system..

    If everyone paid their fair share, would there be a budget problem???
     
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Businesses pay over $500B/yr complying with the tax code. This would also encourage businesses to come here creating jobs/wages for the middle class.

    I remember a few years ago R Perot paid 8% of income in taxes, Buffet has said he pays a lower rate than his sect. A flat tax would have them paying 17% and the 60k sect paying ~7%. Politicians don't want it because it doesn't allow them to dole out breaks reducing their power.
     
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Meanwhile, we fight along party lines and forget what the actual issues are. We're too busy fighting among ourselves to get anything accomplished.

    Shame on us...
     
  10. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Just b/c a company doesn't pay taxes doesn't mean the employees and shareholders aren't. The taxes paid by BofA is a separate issue from the taxes paid by its president and other "fat cats."
     
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    I think you guys are putting a little too much faith in any "flat tax" proposal.

    The only good thing about the ones I've read is that they would be a "re-set" from the horrible system in place today.

    But have no misconceptions -- from the very start, poiticians, including these plans' creators, will start us down the road toward the system in place today, as tey try to address what they perceive as inequities, try to discourage things they don't like, encourage things they do, appease constituencies, etc.
     
  12. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Your right and thats they way they want it. Simple divide and conquer.
     
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is a only a suggestion, that might provide equitable tax burden that is all..

    It needs some tweaking, but the current system is seriously broken and favors the wealthiest taxpayers..

    All we have is a bureaucratic nightmare, laced with breaks, loopholes and a whole lot of bureaucrats..
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    A wealthy person (say a celebrity singer) can legally declare themselves to be a corporation and get all the tax benefits a corp. gets, while an average Joe or Jane who works for the man can't.

    That's crap and has to be changed.
     
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just did my taxes and tried to imagine a the deductions that a wealthy dude has if he has one of those million dollar mansions.. imagine the tax deduction, interest deduction, the prerequisite home office deduction and the cost of the schools he sends his kids to...

    It goes on and on, but the inequity is quite obvious...
     
  16. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    They same people you speak of will pour a ton of money into making sure that things don't change.
     
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    FYI...not many bother to deduct home office expenses any more. The laws changed so that if you deduct for home office expenses, you'll have to pay extra taxes when/if you sell your home.

    I work from home and I looked into it...not worth the write-off.
     
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    This is somewhat of an intellectually flawed argument being put forth. First of all, a company like BoA has nothing to do with what's going on in Wisconsin. Also, the businesses in question probably pay more in taxes in a given year than the entire state of Wisconsin's population combined. A business pays matching payroll taxes which are unavoidable. It pays property taxes, real estate taxes, excise taxes, taxes on goods, etc. Furthermore, as Chico mentioned, it's shareholders and bonus babies (who are employees) pay taxes on whatever is paid to them. This is all an aside to the basic principle that businesses never truly do pay taxes. That whatever "taxes" they pay, as is the case with any operating expense a company deals with, is simply passed on to the consumer.
     
  19. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    But...corporations are E-V-I-L RW. Can't you see that? It's them against us and we're not gonna take it anymore. Whatever "it" is...
     
  20. PatsFanInVa

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    Yeah see, this is why I say "why bother" with various flat tax proposals (PS, how can there be various proposals if it is "flat?" There can't be. You start off knowing you're not getting taxes up to a certain dollar amount, and it's not worth trying. The money's not there. Then you start down the road of the breaks you have to give to the wealthy to "make up for it," blah blah blah.) You never get to agreement on what "flat" means.

    Here's one aspect that immediately comes to mind, from the blowback from the right:

    When you decide on your flat tax, since we're in a bigger slump than at any other time during our lifetimes, you'll start off by not upsetting the fat cats by actually collecting their corporate taxes. You'll give them a "temporary" break, because otherwise you'll lose jobs overseas. Then you'll extend their "temporary" break once the economy is truly back, on the premise that the "bad old days" will return if you don't.

    Don't think that'll happen? Read up on the "temporary" Bush tax breaks for the rich that we still can't allow to sunset. And it's still the merely middle-class who argue that their corporate masters must be coddled, or all the jobs go poof. News flash: they go poof anyway. That's what corporations do: maximize profits, and minimize costs, including labor costs. Offshore jobs, hire immigrant labor, bash unions, automate. That's how you get profits. Yet, the big players are still large employers domestically. And so, they will continue to have that gun to our heads. And mark my words, the RWs of the world will be crying the blues for their corporate masters until the day they offshore the last U.S. job, and possibly after that too.

    Want a sliver of what's to come on this proposal? Just propose that you tax market gains like you tax income.

    Make people pay capital gains at the same rate they pay income... as if they actually worked for the money, rather than claimed it as their rightful, tax-free birthright, based on the fact that they did nothing to get it but take risk -- risk that turned out to be subsidized by the rest of us in the first place.

    See where that gets you. I'll give you the answer if you've got too thin a skin to try the experiment (again.) What actually happened is what I just described: arguments that jobs will go poof if we tell people they have to pay their fair share whether they worked for the money or whether it was essentially given them through public subsidy of their risk-taking behavior.

    And of course, we also get the arguments about how corporations get to own things and pay no taxes, because individuals working for that corporation pay no taxes.

    Bogus. Who owns the land? The headquarters building? Who has the payroll obligations, and what entity owns and controls the enterprise's capital assets? Not the shareholders. They are held by the corporation itself; the shareholders can reap dividends, but do not and cannot sell their 1/300,000th of the headquarters building (just for example.) The ongoing gains from operations of the corporation go into the going concern of the corporation. When shareholders take profits, that is only the skimming off the top of what is produced in a year. The rest goes back into the corporation as a going concern.

    So, you say, we should treat them like someone who sells a house. We tax them when they cash out.

    Nut uh, no we don't. Because if a Corporation is cashing out, it is going through our corporation-friendly bankruptcy code. Not only don't we tax them like we tax individuals, we line up to get stiffed by liquidating and reorganizing corporations. If anybody gets anything out of a company going through chapter 11 or chapter 13, it's pennies on the dollar.

    So when, exactly, does the corporation pay taxes on the fruits of the company's gain, if they pay no corporate taxes?

    PFnV
     

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