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Bob Ryan agrees Favre most overrated QB in history

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by RhodyPatriot, Mar 9, 2008.

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  1. RhodyPatriot

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  2. DarrylS

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    Disagree completely this guy has stood the test of time, a lot of records.. aside from Brady would have loved him to be a Patriot and if he played here with good teams would have been a home town hero.
     
  3. scott c

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  4. DSal

    DSal Old fart and proud of it!

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    I couldn't disagree more. First, the title of the post is a bit misleading. Ryan doesn't state the he feels Favre is the most overrated QB in history. He simply states that he wasn't in the top 5 and probably doesn't belomg in the top 10. Favre was a great leader of men playing America's game. Had he been a Patriot, we would all be crying in our beer over his retirement. Did he define mental toughness? Yes. Did this inspire and help to lead his teammates? Yes. Did he drive his team to victory many, many times because of his ability to lead? Yes. Did he put team first? Every time he stepped on the field.

    Don't disount his accomplishments because of the circus the media created over his pending retirement the last few years, or because he threw some of the craziest interceptions. Give the guy his due. He was a very good quarterback that had the uncanny ability to be a leader in the highest regard in the best team sport in the world. He respected the game for all it is worth. He deserves all of our respect.
     
  5. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I think Brett was good....

    i dont think Brett was THAT good...

    not peyton manning good, not montana good, not elway good, not brady good.....

    and i wont delve into the older QB's either....

    Brett was good....but not one of the top 5....and maybe in the top 10...

    but overrated has a negative connotation in today's world....
     
  6. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    he never missed a game and holds every record there is hes top 5 all time QB
     
  7. Number Cruncher

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    I'll never forgive him for the Strahan thing...

    Imagine pitchers throwing underhanded to help McGuire get the regular season home run record...

    Imagine pulling the goalie in the second period so someone could break the NHL scoring record...

    Imagine Connecticut and their opponent agreeing to trade baskets so someone could get a womens hoops scoring record...

    Favre VIOLATED the rule book. He tarnished all his own records in the process.

    (That and some of the worst picks in QB history).....
     
  8. Palm Beach Pats Fan

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    #12 Jersey


    Drug testing would be a good idea for you
     
  9. DarrylS

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    say what???? Explain that position..
     
  10. dhamz

    dhamz In the Starting Line-Up

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    The thread is very misleading. Ryan does not say that.

    What he says is that while Favre was a tremendous QB, he is not one of the handful of best Ryan has seen. I agree 100%. Montana, Marino, Brady, and Manning were/are vastly superior. Elway was the same kind of player as Favre a lot of his career and took his less talented teams much farther. That is 5 I think aren't even up for debate and that is just in the last 25 years.

    Favre was great for about a 4 year span when he and Holmgren were in synch, horrible for a time, inconsistent a lot of the time.

    As for the comment that the Pats win the Super Bowl this year with Favre at QB - that is laughable. How was a guy who has spent the last decade of his career defined by blowing big games for his team going to do that? Last time I checked, the Giants beat him on his home field because he threw the game away.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2008
  11. Pats Fanatic

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    Talk about clueless , then again Farve did just a great job against the Giants at home in the NFC championship game didn't he.
    Farve was a very good to great QB but not a Top 10er. The gun slinging style is romantic and fun to watch but has a tendency to blow-up in you face.
     
  12. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Not so sure abput that one..
     
  13. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Yeah, that 1984 team was a real pushover.

    I hate hearing about how great Sammy Baugh was. Very few of us talking about him were alive when he played, and it was in a completely different era of football.

    Favre is horribly overrated (he never had the teams Brady did? Try the 1996-8 teams, with the greatest defensive lineman in history in his prime as well as a plethora of skill players) and I'm glad someone in the media has the balls to call him out. Bob Ryan's one of my favorite sportswriters. He doesn't pull punches.
     
  14. Palm Beach Pats Fan

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    Reading Comprehension 101:

    Ryan says Favre is likely among the top 10 QBs of all time but lists the 7 who are better than him since 1970. He says Favre is a lock 1st ballot hall-of famer.

    Let's not get carried away about Ryan's "criticism" since it seems like a fair even-handed analysis to me.

    And you need rehab, Jan Brady, if you think Brady has to look up to Favre as a QB.
     
  15. makoute

    makoute In the Starting Line-Up

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    Why the hell is Manning or Marino for that matter vastly superior?
     
  16. PatriotsRule99

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    Honestly, hats off to this guy but seriously, all I ever hear about football anymore is this guys name...its not his fault :D
    but seriously, most overrated of all time.
     
  17. captain stone

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    No Jersey Selected

    The 4-letter network's Sal Paolontonio also doesn't buy the Lord Favre hype. Since Mike Holmgren left after the '98 season, his Lordship is a meager 3-5 in the POs, incl. a shocking 3-3 at Lambeau Field. Until their loss against Mike Vick(?) and the Falcons(??) in the '02 POs, the Packers had never lost a home PO game.

    Without Holmgren to provide structure, Farve became less disciplined and more good ol' boy gunslinger, and therefore less effective. IOW, he became what another good ol' boy gunslinger, Terry Bradshaw, would have become had he not had Chuck Noll to tell him what to do, and what not to do, at all times.

    IMHO, Farve is barely a top-20 all-time QB, but a first-ballot HOFer based almost exclusively on the mountain of career statistics accumulated because of his tremendous durability and toughness, his 2 best attributes.

    A top-5, or even top-10 all-timer? That is laughable.
     
  18. brdmaverick

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    Favre is a football icon, a legend, and should/will be remembered as such. He was not just a quarterback, he was a FOOTBALL PLAYER. He played hurt and would not hesitate to mix it up with the defensive players.


    Don't take it out on Favre just because you sick of Madden's man-crush on him
     
  19. MoLewisrocks

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    Jeezus...from one extreme to the other. If Favre had been the Pat's QB this year they probably don't even go to the Superbowl. He couldn't do anything against the Giants pass rush either, even moreso in OT after they won what should have been the deciding play of the game - the coin toss... And he threw the mindless pick in OT that was the eventual Packer killer. But it never would have happened because if Brett Favre was the Patriots QB for the last decade they have no Lombardi's and the fans and media here would have run his ass out of town. Remember, we had a gunslinger for a QB before Brady came along and salvaged this decade. And it took an extended injury to facilitate unseating him. He was the only QB Brett ever bested in a SB, and that was OVER A DECADE AGO!

    What Brett Favre was was one of the top 10 icons of the modern football era and a mediots dream. He threw the ball a lot, and improvised, and hung around - that is what they love in what has become a coaches game. He hung around long enough to own all the cumulative stats, which is how they measure heros and success, mostly because his first in the league $100M contract kept them hamstrung until at least 2006. He wasn't even the MVP of the one SB the Packers won in his career - a PR took home that honor. He was an elite QB for a brief period early in his career. Then he was an average to below average QB for most of the remainder of his career save his final season when he was well above average one more time. As Football Outsiders assessed it, he had "the greatest QB career" to date in NFL history, but that is based entirely on durability and longevity at a slightly above average overall level as opposed to sustained excellence which is what the greatest QB's of all time provide.

    Had he been a student of the game he had the talent and the teams around him for much of that time to be truly dominant. But that was the gap in his game - once Holmgren left he couldn't bring himself to work at his craft until his skills had eroded to the point he had to in order to balance his own desire to win and keep playing in GB against his determination to have fun doing the only part of the game that really appeals to that psyche - slinging the ball around on Sunday.

    He was a leader on the field by default because that comes with the position. What he never did was lead his team off the field because that part of the process was never more to him than a necessary evil he at best tolerated. He was one tough SOB, but he fully admits he never understood why they asked players to watch film until he was in his 30's, and he didn't bother to take a crack at it himself until he was clinging to the game by his fingernails in his late 30's. Players admire him because he was durable and inately talented and he had the capacity to impact the game, positively as well as negatively, and because they have to believe that talent is more important than scheme. It's a mentality that is shared by many still today, which is why you see players on successful teams landing huge contracts in FA they somehow never live up to.

    If I had to choose players to perform in a coachless NFL, Brett would probably be my QB. That's the lure of a Brett Favre.

    Sal Pal kind of sums it up in his piece.

    "After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just three of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers.

    Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago! But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse.

    Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 with more interceptions (nine) than touchdown passes (seven). In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions. That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks."

    In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime ... In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions."

    "But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism.

    Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer.

    Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a 104.8 career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38 points higher than Johnny Unitas'.

    Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 interceptions in 22 playoff games. Starr threw three in 10. Think about that -- just three picks in 213 postseason attempts."



    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3281535
     
  20. NDfan

    NDfan Rookie

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    Lol. Thats all that has to be said.
     
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