BJGE to have more opportunities?

[patsinthesnow]

Still to even suggest that he is even close to as talented or as good as Maroney is ludicrous.

No it's not. What is with this "talent" crap I keep hearing around here? I didn't know our players were on America's got Talent?

On the field it's not ludicrous to suggest BJGE is as good as Maroney. (Hint: Maroney isn't good)

 

[TheComeback]

Re: BGE to have more opportunities?

BJGE could make the team. He could be the week one starter. Hell, the way this team works, he could start at right tackle for all we know.

But the reality is that he was the RB5 last season, and he had a grand total of 26 carries. That's 3 fewer than Brady, and that's with Morris and Taylor missing a combined 14 games, and with Maroney being in the doghouse post-fumble.

That's true, but he was also getting reps at FB, quite a few of them if I remember correctly. That may have been because BB was a little hesitant to give him the ball for some reason, but still wanted him to have a role on the team. You can view that as negative (kept off the field as an RB due to poor blitz pickup and lots of inexperience compared to Morris/Taylor/Faulk, or was simply not as effective a runner) or a positive (BB wanted to get him on the field and BJGE proved to be a good drive blocker).

He seemed to play well with the opportunities he was given in 08 as an RB, and again as FB in 09. Works hard, plays hard.

For the record, I don't think he's as talented as Maroney, but has a more downhill attitude and is more decisive with his cuts. I also think he's mentally tougher than LoMo, having fought his way onto the team for 2 training camps in a row now.

 

[Rob0729]

No it's not. What is with this "talent" crap I keep hearing around here? I didn't know our players were on America's got Talent?

On the field it's not ludicrous to suggest BJGE is as good as Maroney. (Hint: Maroney isn't good)

If Maroney isn't good, BJGE is horrible. If BJGE was close to Maroney, he would be getting significant playing time. Even when Taylor and Morris were out for extended periods of time, BJGE didn't get much playing time. He is on the team because of his effort and doesn't play because of his talent.

As for Maroney, he is not horrible. He is horrible vs. expectations. He is not a great RB, but he isn't horrible either.

 

[signbabybrady]

I saw him on 2 occasions, and I missed quite a few practices, especially the first few.

Sorry but I think you are mixing something up because I am pretty sure Slater got hurt in practice two but it might have been day two. He definitely has not been dressed since.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: BGE to have more opportunities?

That's true, but he was also getting reps at FB, quite a few of them if I remember correctly. That may have been because BB was a little hesitant to give him the ball for some reason, but still wanted him to have a role on the team. You can view that as negative (kept off the field as an RB due to poor blitz pickup and lots of inexperience compared to Morris/Taylor/Faulk, or was simply not as effective a runner) or a positive (BB wanted to get him on the field and BJGE proved to be a good drive blocker).

He seemed to play well with the opportunities he was given in 08 as an RB, and again as FB in 09. Works hard, plays hard.

For the record, I don't think he's as talented as Maroney, but has a more downhill attitude and is more decisive with his cuts. I also think he's mentally tougher than LoMo, having fought his way onto the team for 2 training camps in a row now.

I view it as what it is. BJGE is a running back who had fewer carries than Tom Brady did, and had 14 of his 26 carries in the blowouts against Tennessee and Tampa Bay.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

i hope BJGE replaces Morris.

I spent a few days at TC and from what I saw, Morris is the best runner we have now. The problem with BJGE is that it takes him an hour and a half from the time he gets the ball until he hits the LOS.

But I will say this about BJGE, he has the vision to hit the right hole and does not lack the courage (unlike Maroney) to pound it in there if the hole is not there.

 

[patsinthesnow]

If Maroney isn't good, BJGE is horrible. If BJGE was close to Maroney, he would be getting significant playing time. Even when Taylor and Morris were out for extended periods of time, BJGE didn't get much playing time. He is on the team because of his effort and doesn't play because of his talent.

As for Maroney, he is not horrible. He is horrible vs. expectations. He is not a great RB, but he isn't horrible either.

BJGE is entering his 3rd year as a UDFA. He can't be horrible if he made the roster two straight years in his rookie & soph season as a UDFA. That could be the playing time problem.

I don't want to start a war but when he's gotten oppurtunities (very few so far in his career), he's looked good. Too bad he didn't make that diving catch in the endzone...

 

[TheComeback]

Re: BGE to have more opportunities?

I view it as what it is. BJGE is a running back who had fewer carries than Tom Brady did, and had 14 of his 26 carries in the blowouts against Tennessee and Tampa Bay.

He was a 24 year old second-year UDFA who was playing on a team with three 30+ year old veteran RBs, including a future hall of famer, and a guy who's been the team's starter since 06/07 and who was given every possible opportunity to build consistency last year.

The fact that BJGE only got a few carries is troubling, but the team kept him on the roster all year long. I don't think they'd do that if he was as useless as his number of carries supposedly illustrates.

 

[MassPats38]

While I like BJGE and would love to see him stick around, I can't believe he was far from the bottom on the 53-man roster.

His problem is not that he takes a step back ability-wise, but rather that 53 players appear on the roster who represent greater value to the organization than he does. I have no doubt that Faulk, Maroney, Taylor and Morris possess greater organizational value than he does, even given inconsistent play and injury potential. That leaves him at #5. While he is good insurance policy given the injury history of Taylor and Morris, I can't picture him as the go-to guy replacing any of 1 through 4 on the roster.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: BGE to have more opportunities?

He was a 24 year old second-year UDFA who was playing on a team with three 30+ year old veteran RBs, including a future hall of famer, and a guy who's been the team's starter since 06/07 and who was given every possible opportunity to build consistency last year.

Yes, and that future Hall of Famer ended up on the IR after 6 games, while the team's starter ended up in the doghouse after a series of fumbles. Even with that, BJGE got 26 carries, 14 of which came in the 2 biggest blowouts of the season.

The fact that BJGE only got a few carries is troubling, but the team kept him on the roster all year long. I don't think they'd do that if he was as useless as his number of carries supposedly illustrates.

Special teams, mop up duty, and disaster insurance. Maybe it'll be more this year, maybe he'll get cut. Either way, he was essentially a non-factor as a running back last year.

 

[Rob0729]

BJGE is entering his 3rd year as a UDFA. He can't be horrible if he made the roster two straight years in his rookie & soph season as a UDFA. That could be the playing time problem.

I don't want to start a war but when he's gotten oppurtunities (very few so far in his career), he's looked good. Too bad he didn't make that diving catch in the endzone...

I think you need to get over where someone was drafted or not drafted. We don't talk about Brady anymore as being a great player because he was drafted in the sixth round. We call him a great player because he is a great player.

You are confusing the difference between whether Maroney or BJGE are good player vs. were they good value for what the Pats used to get them. Maroney is a far better player than BJGE. You can argue that BJGE is a better value than Maroney though, but since BJGE doesn't see the field very often I wouldn't agree with you.

As for how much playing time players get, it definitely has nothing to do with draft position. David Givens worked his way into the starting line up as a seventh rounder over their biggest free agent acquisition at the time, Donald Hayes. Gary Guyton started at ILB last year as an UDFA. Belichick has shown no qualms about cutting the cord quickly with high draft picks who haven't panned out (Chad Jackson, Kevin O'Connell). Belichick will play the players who give him the best chance to win no matter where they were drafted.

If BJGE was better than Maroney, he would play over Maroney. In fact, if ego was a factor, BJGE would make Belichick look better if BJGE succeeded as a starter since the entire league passed on the guy.

 

[eagle eye]

BJGE is entering his 3rd year as a UDFA. He can't be horrible if he made the roster two straight years in his rookie & soph season as a UDFA. That could be the playing time problem.

I don't want to start a war but when he's gotten oppurtunities (very few so far in his career), he's looked good. Too bad he didn't make that diving catch in the endzone...

No matter what way you look at it, he is not in the same class as Maroney.

Read what the guy wrote. IF Maroney isn't good then BJGE is horrible.

You can go by stats and this argument holds up. You can go by how often the coach has had these two guys on the field and this argument stands up. You can go by blocking skills and this argument holds up.

No matter what way you look at it, Maroney is in a different class to BJGE.

As I said earlier, I think everybody likes BJGE but we just get fed up of people trashing Maroney for no good reason and bigging up BJGE for no good reason either.

We would all love to have an elite RB here like CJ, AP or MJD but the Patriots have not been set up the last couple of years to get the best out of the RBs. This year could be different with a couple of potentially great blockers which allow for some exotic plays which in turn could end up spreading a line out and opening holes up the middle along with the passing game.

 

[TheComeback]

Re: BGE to have more opportunities?

Yes, and that future Hall of Famer ended up on the IR after 6 games, while the team's starter ended up in the doghouse after a series of fumbles. Even with that, BJGE got 26 carries, 14 of which came in the 2 biggest blowouts of the season.



Special teams, mop up duty, and disaster insurance. Maybe it'll be more this year, maybe he'll get cut. Either way, he was essentially a non-factor as a running back last year.

Maroney didn't really end up in the dog house until the end of the season, when Morris had already returned.

Still, it's pretty hard to argue that the team viewed BJGE as RB last year, although I have no idea why that's the case, as there didn't appear to be anything tangible preventing him from stepping in. He seemed effective in 2008 and the 2009 preseason, although the latter was mostly against backups. Also, on his 26 carries last year, he averaged 4.4 yards, which is solid though it's really one one game's worth of playing time.

I hope he gets more carries this year, just based on what I've seen since his rookie season. Think he brings a more physical, hard-nosed look to the offense than Maroney.

 

[RayClay]

Heloooo. We have two old RBs. Why wouldn't law firm get more opportunities? He's cheap and runs hard and works hard.

The conspiracy theories are incredible here. Whether he's Patrick Pass or Jim Brown, we'll have a job for a willing affordable running back for the foreseeable future.

Look at the dross you find when you need an emergency back.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I think you need to get over where someone was drafted or not drafted. We don't talk about Brady anymore as being a great player because he was drafted in the sixth round. We call him a great player because he is a great player.

You are confusing the difference between whether Maroney or BJGE are good player vs. were they good value for what the Pats used to get them. Maroney is a far better player than BJGE. You can argue that BJGE is a better value than Maroney though, but since BJGE doesn't see the field very often I wouldn't agree with you.

As for how much playing time players get, it definitely has nothing to do with draft position. David Givens worked his way into the starting line up as a seventh rounder over their biggest free agent acquisition at the time, Donald Hayes. Gary Guyton started at ILB last year as an UDFA. Belichick has shown no qualms about cutting the cord quickly with high draft picks who haven't panned out (Chad Jackson, Kevin O'Connell). Belichick will play the players who give him the best chance to win no matter where they were drafted.

If BJGE was better than Maroney, he would play over Maroney. In fact, if ego was a factor, BJGE would make Belichick look better if BJGE succeeded as a starter since the entire league passed on the guy.

Draft position DOES equate to playing time in the first 2 seasons of a player though. The only way this changes is due to injuries.

Why was Brady the 4th string QB his rookie year? His draft position. Why did we need to wait for Drew to get his head knocked off? draft position.

Why was Welker cut from the Chargers? He went undrafted.

Why did Jamarcus Russell get so many chances? He was the #1 overall pick.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could go on and on.......

If BJGE does nothing at all this year you were right and I was wrong. Fact is he is a UDFA with only 2 years of experience who has fought a depth chart of vets.

 

[Rob0729]

Draft position DOES equate to playing time in the first 2 seasons of a player though. The only way this changes is due to injuries.

Why was Brady the 4th string QB his rookie year? His draft position. Why did we need to wait for Drew to get his head knocked off? draft position.

Why was Welker cut from the Chargers? He went undrafted.

Why did Jamarcus Russell get so many chances? He was the #1 overall pick.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could go on and on.......

If BJGE does nothing at all this year you were right and I was wrong. Fact is he is a UDFA with only 2 years of experience who has fought a depth chart of vets.

Julian Edelman was a seventh round pick as QB and he started week 2 in his rookie year as a WR (a position he never played until last year). So your argument that draft position equates to playing time doesn't hold up. Brian Hoyer was the Pats only back up QB last year as a rookie UDFA.

Brady was fourth string his rookie year because he was a scrawny kid with limited starting experience. The Tom Brady the Pats drafted would never be a star. Brady spent that entire season retooling his body and jumped from the 4th QB to QB #2 at the start of his second year. BJGE has always been RB #5.

As for Welker and Russell, they were not Patriots early in their career. What other teams do with rookies doesn't have anything to do with the Patriots.

BJGE has been the Pats #5 RB the last two years for one reason and one reason only. He isn't better than the guys ahead of him. Julian Edelman, Brian Hoyer, and Gary Guyton blow away your argument that his draft position (or lack of being drafted) is holding him back.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Julian Edelman was a seventh round pick as QB and he started week 2 in his rookie year as a WR (a position he never played until last year). So your argument that draft position equates to playing time doesn't hold up. Brian Hoyer was the Pats only back up QB last year as a rookie UDFA.

Brady was fourth string his rookie year because he was a scrawny kid with limited starting experience. The Tom Brady the Pats drafted would never be a star. Brady spent that entire season retooling his body and jumped from the 4th QB to QB #2 at the start of his second year. BJGE has always been RB #5.

As for Welker and Russell, they were not Patriots early in their career. What other teams do with rookies doesn't have anything to do with the Patriots.

BJGE has been the Pats #5 RB the last two years for one reason and one reason only. He isn't better than the guys ahead of him. Julian Edelman, Brian Hoyer, and Gary Guyton blow away your argument that his draft position (or lack of being drafted) is holding him back.

Julian Edelman: Got his chance because Welker was out first two weeks and because WR depth was horrible last year. (Failed Galloway experiment).

Gary Guyton: made the roster his rookie season and got some playing time because it was senior citizens Bruschi/Seau next to Mayo. He started of Bruschi's retirement and has been average so far. He might lose his starting job this year.

Brian Hoyer: He became the backup QB beating the lands of the misfit toys at qb. No playing time being the 2nd string qb.
----------------------------------------------
It's all about chances as an UDFA.

 

[Rob0729]

Julian Edelman: Got his chance because Welker was out first two weeks and because WR depth was horrible last year. (Failed Galloway experiment).

Gary Guyton: made the roster his rookie season and got some playing time because it was senior citizens Bruschi/Seau next to Mayo. He started of Bruschi's retirement and has been average so far. He might lose his starting job this year.

Brian Hoyer: He became the backup QB beating the lands of the misfit toys at qb. No playing time being the 2nd string qb.
----------------------------------------------
It's all about chances as an UDFA.

So how was BJGE penalized for the fact that there was a long stretch last season where both Fred Taylor and Sammy Morris were inactive and BJGE didn't get a single carry even with Maroney and Faulk as the only other healthy backs. Even when Maroney was benched for fumbling into the endzone, Faulk not BJGE took the starting RB spot. So is the lack of depth at RB different than the lack of depth at WR or QB.

Just admit your theory is wrong. Belichick doesn't penalize a player for TWO YEARS from getting playing time because he was an UDFA. Never has happened and never will. BJGE actually started THREE games his rookie year and none his second year. So he got less opportunities his second year than he got his first. Again, blowing your theory out of the water. BJGE doesn't get opportunities because of his talent, not his draft position.

 

[Deus Irae]

So how was BJGE penalized for the fact that there was a long stretch last season where both Fred Taylor and Sammy Morris were inactive and BJGE didn't get a single carry even with Maroney and Faulk as the only other healthy backs. Even when Maroney was benched for fumbling into the endzone, Faulk not BJGE took the starting RB spot. So is the lack of depth at RB different than the lack of depth at WR or QB.

Just admit your theory is wrong. Belichick doesn't penalize a player for TWO YEARS from getting playing time because he was an UDFA. Never has happened and never will. BJGE actually started THREE games his rookie year and none his second year.

BJGE also saw his carries cut from 74 to 26. That's being ignored by the "BJGE!!!!!!" crowd.

 

[Rob0729]

BJGE also saw his carries cut from 74 to 26. That's being ignored by the "BJGE!!!!!!" crowd.

And he wents from 3 starts his rookie season to no starts last year.