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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AndyJohnson, Mar 24, 2007.

  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Texans have a former 1st overall pick at QB, who hasnt exactly been great, but I think the consensus is he has been in a tough situation and does have the ability he was drafted to have. In others a still developing potential excellent QB.
    Atlanta has backup QB who was a so-so prospect coming into the draft, has barely played in the NFL, and has been mentioned as a guy who could be a good fit in a WC offense, but has yet to show anything.

    The Texans proceed to give up 2 seconds, plus 2 spots in round 1 for the right to obtain the backup, who they then pay 48 million for years.
    The Texans release the starter and get nothing.

    It COULD turn out that Schaub is a better QB than Carr. But how can you pay that much for an unknown and then not even attempt to get anything back for a guy like Carr?????????

    When the Schaub trade was made, I said I guess this means they better get at least 2 seconds for Carr. They got nothing.

    Someone please explain to me why Schaub is worth so much and Carr is worth absolutely nothing?
  2. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    #12 Jersey

    The Texans FO is a pile of morons?

    Other than that, I got nothin'.
  3. JDP111

    JDP111 Rookie

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    EXACTLY. Especially considering the Texans passed on Vince Young and Matt Leinart in the draft last year. . . . .
  4. mtbykr

    mtbykr Rookie

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    Not much else you can say, you hit the nail on the head! What would be hillarious is if Shaub craps the bed (with a lousy team) and Carr lands somewhere and does well!
  5. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    Can't speak to Schaub but Carr has no trade value.

    He has 2 years and 23 million left on his deal which makes it impossible the Texans could keep him on the roster. No team is going to give up much (a 7th was the rumor of what was offerred for him) for a guy who is about to be cut. Carr has little motivation to rework his deal for the team he is traded to unless it is where he wants since he knows if he refuses to renogotiate, he is an UFA. The Texans have been shopping Carr the entire off-season so it isn't accurate when it is reported that it was a knee jerk reaction after they acquired Schaub.

    The Texans were left with cut Carr now and start fresh or cut him a few weeks from now and deal with the daily Carr questions in hopes to get a very late draft pick.
  6. Canada's #1 Pats Fan

    Canada's #1 Pats Fan Rookie

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    Somehow, I think all of us believe that is exactly what is going to happen.
  7. The Coon

    The Coon Rookie

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    Exactly. Carr has no trade value with his contract (no team is willing to pay Carr that much for what Carr has shown so far). They could sign Carr for much less and not have to give up anything.

    I will agree with the consensus that the Texans gave up far too much to get Schaub though. I think Quinn would be there at #8 and they would still have their 2 2nd rounders. Or they could have called our front office and seen what it would take to get Cassel ( it wouldnt have taken as much as it did to get Schaub)
  8. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    I am sure they tried to make a deal and couldnt, but you would have thought they could get at least a late day two pick or even a day two next year.
  9. lusdawg

    lusdawg Rookie

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    Didn't Buffalo essentially do this with Rob Johnson? How did that work out? That's an awfully big gamble for Houston with so much money and now no real back-up QB.
  10. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    Andy, the only parallel I can think of is the situation Jim Pluncket found himself with the Pats in the early 70's. As you probably know, Jim was the #1 pick of the Pats in 1970. He had a great rookie year, but over the next couple was crushed by playing with a bad team. By the time the Pats traded him to SF for multiple picks, he was just a shadow of QB who came here as rookie. He then failed at SF before being picked up as a back up by the Raiders. By then both his body, and more importantly his mind had healed, so when the opportunity to play with the Raiders occurred, he was ready. Ultimately he lead them to 2 superbowl wins and legitimized his career.

    Carr's situation seems eerily similar. This release could be the best thing that can happen to him. Now he can go to some team with low expectations and great value. Ideally he can back up for a year before he can get a chance to show his off his skills in a better situation. IMHO, if we weren't committed to Matt Castle as Brady's back up, playing in NE would be a perfect situation for him for a year.

    The more I think of it. This SHOULD be the place for him to sign a one year contract. He would experience a winning situation, great organization, solid offensive system, and best of all, absolutely no expectations. He would have a year to get his head straight, and greatly improve our back QB situation. He has plenty of money, so signing a vet minimum contract wouldn't matter financially. THEN after several good exhibitions games or back up opportunities, he can be a value to the Pats as trade bait at the end of 2007. Both sides would profit immeasureably.

    If I were his agent, and really cared about the long term success of this guy, this would be a perfect scenerio. After a year with the Pats he would be ready to take over a program again. In the mean time the Pats would be repaid by having a deeper QB situation for 2007, and an extra mid level (or better) draft pick in 2008. If he goes and rushes into another bad situation, like Oakland, he will only put himself into a position to repeat history...again.

    BTW - The muliple picks we got from SF for Plunkett helped create the talent pool that got the Pats a few good teams at the end of the 70's
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2007
  11. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    The parts I bolded are a bit contradictory.
  12. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You don't think the Texan's shopped Carr and got no takers? Could they have kept him on until a taker willing to swap something emerged? Sure, but that would likely have made for a lousy locker room situation as off season conditioning (and bonding for Schaub) commenced. And I think you over estimate the concensus. As a lot of folks did with Joey.

    I think many here are romanticizing his value to an extent based on where he was drafted. I think the Daunte/Joey experiment in Miami likely hurt any potential re-sale value Carr might have had. (Even the Bledsoe post NE saga is instructive here.) Fact is somtimes highly touted guys develop into nothing more than extremely talented busts. Might each have had a little more success had they landed with better run franchises? Maybe, but that's not who generally drafts you as a QB in the first. Carr didn't have the greatest protection, but he had some weapons and simply couldn't make use of them. He held the ball too long, and then made bad decisions with it too late. I think each had a touch of Bledsoitis, and you can't coach that out of a first round player 9 times out of 10. Harrington wouldn't take any responsibility for his situation nor was he highly coachable. Carr reportedly chaffed at expectations he extend himself more with structured extra time film work and extended practice time with his WR preferring instead to study film at home with his young family. In his case they likely waited a year too long to flip him for something of value. But better late than never.

    As for Schaub, folks forget he was being touted as a Heisman candidate after his junior year before he was injured and missed time his senior year. He was still drafted in the 3rd round and has had 3 years to acclimate to the NFL. Teams have been trying to pry him out of Atlanta for two years to no avail (including Mangenius who tried to get him in lieu of a 1st for Abraham last year). One more disappointing year by Vick and Schaub might never have been available.

    Maybe he just looks better in comparison to Vick, but he's also run that team pretty well when he's had the chance and considering how dysfunctional Vick makes that offense that alone is impressive from his backup. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Houston Oline suddenly morph into something substantially better than it's been billed with this guy under center. And the entire team could feed off that. I saw that happen not so long ago...here.
  13. PatsSteve1

    PatsSteve1 Rookie

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    Someone please explain to me why Schaub is worth so much and Carr is worth absolutely nothing?[/QUOTE]

    * Actually it's not you that needs the explanation. It's the Texans FO -:) I was at the game when he played in place of M Vick in Atlanta a couple of yeras ago and he looked good in that game. Of course he got to go up against Duane "make you forget about Ty Law" Starks which may ave helped him -:)
  14. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They are not only contradictory, they are delusional. What is wrong with Carr to an extent is what was wrong with the last 1st rounder we had who projected to be a backup once Brady emerged but didn't want that job. What is Carr going to be here, 3rd string inactive and scout QB? LOL BB isn't running a rehab.

    Shaub is a better bet today than either of the two projected first round draft picks if you need a QB to start this season. Houston did. Quinn may be everything Charlie says he'll be, eventually, but he's not going be it if he's thrown to the wolves. And I don't doubt that somebody who needs a QB to start next season will be willing to pay a pretty nice price for Cassel next season which is why we'd have no room for a guy like Carr on our roster - we need to find a new developmental player with some serious potential upside for that slot this year or we will be looking at the retread market next season after we flip Matt.
  15. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy Rookie

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    Better bet than Russell? To me, Schaub's barely a better bet than Carr and now the texans have gone and promised another fat bonus to a QB that hasn't proven he can be a stud when the real pressure is on. Schaub's got the advantage of three years in the league - but why does that matter? It's not like the Texans are a functional QB away from the SB. Throw Schaub to the wolves and he'll likely look a lot like Carr did.

    The Texans could have had Stanton near the top of the second round for far less money than Schaub but every bit the promise the former Falcon has. If it takes Schaub a year to adjust to Houston and Stanton does well on some other low grade team, then the Texans will look like fools again. Taking Stanton would have let the Texans at least appear to keep Carr, kept their other second and the higher 1st, cost them less money, provided an insulating blanket of "competition" to protect their new QB from the wolves right off, and maybe given Carr the spark or the time to evolve.

    This deal for Schaub is extremely risky given the price. If it blows up, the texans are done for years to come. taking the conservative route I described above would have made much more sense.
  16. wrangler

    wrangler Rookie

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    Bottom line is "What does the owner see as a profit for his account, I mean
    Team".?? The Texans(TEAM) and thier fans are looking for a winning formula,
    as the OWNER is looking to fatten his wallet no matter what happens.

    Look at owners that have a primary drive to win and those who are mearly
    trying to make a buck with some semblance of respectability in the league,
    ie., good gosh people we are really trying,... yes at times,... very!

    As an example, look at the Phins with Wayne as owner, I rest my case.

    Dedicated: owner+staff+players= WINNER!! The rest is all money.

    PS: I'm tired of all the crap. Owners make money no matter what, serious
    OWNERS make champions(plus money), bottom line folks. We are lucky, ya think

    PPS: Sorry for the out burst guys, just venting, I'll go back to my hole,....poof! getting too commercial. -jmo-
  17. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think you're being melodramatic. The Texans only guaranteed $7M of Schaub's 6 year $48M deal which is relative peanuts if he becomes a viable (let alone franchise) QB. They structured the deal with a $10M option bonus due in 2010, so they can walk away relatively unscathed in 3 years if he doesn't pan out. They were going to pay Carr $11M over the next two seasons and he wasn't going to pan out.

    The mistake they made was paying the $8M option bonus to Carr last season. Although if they hadn't they likely would have had to spend their 1st on Young who may not ever learn to be a decent passer in this league, and we all know how that turns out.
  18. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    Actually that's exactly what I was thinking here. A rehab situation for Carr, with the bonus that a rehabilitated Carr would have some value to the Pats in the off season AFTER the 2007 season (which is what I meant in my original post, not that it would have taken much extra thought to figure out what I meant, guys, really :rolleyes:)

    OF COURSE its not likely to happen, but it doesn have a logical benefit for both teams. Carr gets a place to "rehab" his career and get his mind straight in a winning enviroment, the Pats get a better QB situation, and likelyhood of picking up an extra 2008 draft pick. It would be a win win situation. Unlikely, YES, dillusional. NO
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    As far as I know, Charlie Casserly and Booby Grier are still the talent evaluators for the Texans. THAT should tell you everything.
  20. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    The way that Carr would provide the Pats an extra draft pick is if he signed for big money during after the 2007 season with another team. Then the Pats could, potentially, get a 2009 draft pick for him. The OTHER way they could get a draft pick is if they traded Cassel next off-season the way they traded for Welker. Then the Pats could re-sign Carr and have a pretty good back-up in the event that the worst possible case happened. Otherwise, they would have a back-up who could, potentially, mimic other QBs the way Damon Huard did.

    The Pats actually have done some good for some players. Bobby Hamilton, Damon Huard, Ted Washington. They all came here and left and got good money when they did.

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