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Bill Simmons : Pats never a dynasty.


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:wha:

OK . . . so taking that argument to its logical conclusion, then, because Brady went 9-0 in his first three playoff runs, therefore the only way the Pats would be a dynasty is if Brady went lifetime undefeated in the playoffs?

If Mr. Simmons really believes that, I've got a few bridges to sell him. :)
 
ctpatsfan77 said:
:wha:

OK . . . so taking that argument to its logical conclusion, then, because Brady went 9-0 in his first three playoff runs, therefore the only way the Pats would be a dynasty is if Brady went lifetime undefeated in the playoffs?

If Mr. Simmons really believes that, I've got a few bridges to sell him. :)
No kidding! That's a pretty high standard to place on anyone. The first playoff game Brady loses and the Pats play poorly, in essence, negates how wonderfully they've played up till now? On what planet?

The more I think about what he wrote, the angrier and more disgusted I become.
 
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Yeeeaaah, disrespect. Please National Media, throw more gas on this fire. Just what this team needs. They know they can't just rest on the success of the past and this type of of story will only increase their hunger.

Please, I admonish all who hear me-WE NEED THIS DISRESPECT. Now if we can just make sure all our old posts don't get wiped out before next years SB victory.......
 
T-ShirtDynasty said:
dynasty! not a dynasty ?who gives a rats ass .all i know is they have won three sb in four years .call it what you will .the patriots are always good for one stinker a year this year it happened to be in the playoffs .last year it was miami and the year before that buffalo .all i know is most of the team will be back and they will be in the thick of it again on that you can count on .
 
I am a newbie here, but geez, you are really laying it into Simmons more then he should be. I have to admit he is one of my favorite sports writers, so I am biased, but the general sense of loathing over this article is a tad undeserved, in my honest opinion, so I will try to defend some of his points. He is pondering the possible end of the Pats reign of dominance, where, for the first time in 5 years the team came up short in a big moment. What exactly is wrong about this, its something I worry about too since I have never seen it before and there is no possible way to know how this team will react. I believe they will react by reaking havoc on the NFL next year, but there is a possibility that they may collapse (like the Yankees after '01). Did anyone think at the time the Yankees wouldn't be back to their winning ways after that, no. But they haven't won a series since. He is pointing out this could be the end of the Pats reign of dominance, not that it is.

Second, this is what he says in the article about dynasty:

"Why were we calling them a dynasty in the first place? Bill Russell's Celtics won 11 titles in 13 seasons -- now that was a dynasty. We live in a sports world where hyperbole rules, so it's easy to forget that Webster's defines a dynasty as "a powerful group or family that maintains its position for a considerable time." Four years is not a considerable time."

He is making a point about hyperbole, which is a valid one, since people are constantly saying something or someone is the best ever. It is possible we are taking 4 years as too short a time to be considered a "dynasty" since until recently it has never been used that way. With that said, considering the context of the modern NFL, where the league is trying to stop repeat champions, a considerable amount of time can be 4 years and three championships. But I think he makes a valid point about hyperbole, and maybe we should take a step back about these Pats and see how things play out before we declare them something they may not be. And besides its not like he is completely discounting the possibility that the Pats remain dominant, its just that the way the Pats lost made him worried, and I can't blame him for that.

Third, he has never written as a sports expert, he has always written from a fan's perspective. If you don't like that, that's fine, but as a fan he is going to make theories about sports and the teams he follows, just like every fan. What I like is the fact that he is completely honest about his own bias, where as other writers hide behind a veneer of objectivity while glorifying those he likes and lambasting those he hates. In this article he shows genuine concern, as a fan, that his team may not be as feared as it once was, and this could mark the end of its reign of dominance. As a fan, I share the same concern, maybe just not to the extent he does.

As far as being right and wrong on certain issues, he has always said the lesson as always was that he was an idiot. He doesn't hide the fact he has been wrong before, and has been more willing to admit he has been wrong then almost any other sports writer (just read his book). At least give him credit for that. Just like any fan he makes good points and bad points, as a writer he is more willing to admit mistakes when he is wrong then almost any other sports writer.
 
That's a really good post defending him, dante828, but I think Simmons expects and even relishes this type of reaction, to a degree. That's what sportwriters do, spark dialogue and controversy through writing provocative things. He is just as allowed to say things like "We were never a dynasty, we might never be that good again, etc." as I am to say, "Simmons is just being reactionary and hysterical and it's starting to grate."
 
ilduce06410 said:
never a dynasty to begin with? ok. who started that b.s. anyway? what do i care what name is put on it by other people? see, the media get so friggin' caught up in WORDS. because that's what they produce. just like the jerk-offs in DC.
what matters is the CHAMPIONSHIPS, not the label.
isimmons may be right about the swagger. ever since mid-season 2001, when our squad started out-hitting and out-scheming other teams, i believed they were gonna win every game. patriot teams started adjusting to what the opposition did, not only from half to half, but from series to series. magic going on on those sidelines.
so yeah, i expected us to win every game. the best part was that even if the other team was supposed to be better, they Could Not Deal With The Patriots On The Field. we'd just beat them up until the opponents broke. you could see it in the 3rd quarter of most games. teams decided that no matter what they ran, patriots were going to stuff it.
maybe we'll get that back again. would be nice. but 3 solid years of it haeen an absolute joy.
somebody called the "massive, tough and hitters" in print one day. never thought i'd see OUR TEAM described like that


If you didn't care what Simmons said, you wouldn't have taken the time to write a post insisting that you don't care what he thinks. Don't you guys get it? The media always wins. I keep hearing how you don't care what they think and how you hate WEEI yet every day people are on here talking about what they said. That's why they win. I can say this because I don't ever turn the dial to WEEI because they stink and I don't read Borges because he has an agenda. When more people start taking that approach, then the fans can make a difference but until that happens, spare with all the "I don't care..." comments because you say you don't care and then you write a 500 word post complaining about it. It's stupid and quite frankly, it shows how smart the media really is. The more you hate someone the more you listen or read them to see what they're saying. Now, I ask you, who is the idiot?
 
Bella*chick said:
That's a really good post defending him, dante828, but I think Simmons expects and even relishes this type of reaction, to a degree. That's what sportwriters do, spark dialogue and controversy through writing provocative things. He is just as allowed to say things like "We were never a dynasty, we might never be that good again, etc." as I am to say, "Simmons is just being reactionary and hysterical and it's starting to grate."

Exactimunde. :ditto: :yeahthat: :agree:
 
dante828 said:
I am a newbie here, but geez, you are really laying it into Simmons more then he should be. I have to admit he is one of my favorite sports writers, so I am biased, but the general sense of loathing over this article is a tad undeserved, in my honest opinion, so I will try to defend some of his points. He is pondering the possible end of the Pats reign of dominance, where, for the first time in 5 years the team came up short in a big moment. What exactly is wrong about this, its something I worry about too since I have never seen it before and there is no possible way to know how this team will react. I believe they will react by reaking havoc on the NFL next year, but there is a possibility that they may collapse (like the Yankees after '01). Did anyone think at the time the Yankees wouldn't be back to their winning ways after that, no. But they haven't won a series since. He is pointing out this could be the end of the Pats reign of dominance, not that it is.

Second, this is what he says in the article about dynasty:

"Why were we calling them a dynasty in the first place? Bill Russell's Celtics won 11 titles in 13 seasons -- now that was a dynasty. We live in a sports world where hyperbole rules, so it's easy to forget that Webster's defines a dynasty as "a powerful group or family that maintains its position for a considerable time." Four years is not a considerable time."

He is making a point about hyperbole, which is a valid one, since people are constantly saying something or someone is the best ever. It is possible we are taking 4 years as too short a time to be considered a "dynasty" since until recently it has never been used that way. With that said, considering the context of the modern NFL, where the league is trying to stop repeat champions, a considerable amount of time can be 4 years and three championships. But I think he makes a valid point about hyperbole, and maybe we should take a step back about these Pats and see how things play out before we declare them something they may not be. And besides its not like he is completely discounting the possibility that the Pats remain dominant, its just that the way the Pats lost made him worried, and I can't blame him for that.

Third, he has never written as a sports expert, he has always written from a fan's perspective. If you don't like that, that's fine, but as a fan he is going to make theories about sports and the teams he follows, just like every fan. What I like is the fact that he is completely honest about his own bias, where as other writers hide behind a veneer of objectivity while glorifying those he likes and lambasting those he hates. In this article he shows genuine concern, as a fan, that his team may not be as feared as it once was, and this could mark the end of its reign of dominance. As a fan, I share the same concern, maybe just not to the extent he does.

As far as being right and wrong on certain issues, he has always said the lesson as always was that he was an idiot. He doesn't hide the fact he has been wrong before, and has been more willing to admit he has been wrong then almost any other sports writer (just read his book). At least give him credit for that. Just like any fan he makes good points and bad points, as a writer he is more willing to admit mistakes when he is wrong then almost any other sports writer.

Patriots won despite many injuries.

Celtics couldn't win without Russell. Therefore they sucked as a team. :D
 
Just read the article. Crappy.

I like Simmons, but you must remember he's an entertainer. He has to turn in a column whether or not he has something to say.

People know he's a Pats fan and humorist and they expect something clever.

I suppose to some, this fits the bill.

For a better Dynasty analysis see preceding post in this thread.
 
Simmons is my favorite writer. That's WRITER, not sports writer. If you want to be entertained and get a local fan's perspective that goes to a national audience (mixed in with brilliant pop-culture references), read him. If you are looking for expert in-depth sports analysis, look elsehwere. Anyway, I guess I love to read Simmons because his style is so unique. And his Pats-Rams article still gets me weepy.
 
RayClay said:
Patriots won despite many injuries.

Celtics couldn't win without Russell. Therefore they sucked as a team. :D

Off Topic. Too true. Bob Cousy was a highly entertaining guard with his passing and dribbling, and he was a very good scorer, but if Russell (and Heinsohn to a much less degree) don't get on that team, the Cooz goes down as just another flashy player. Great, but maybe not hall of fame.
 
Bella*chick said:
That's a really good post defending him, dante828, but I think Simmons expects and even relishes this type of reaction, to a degree. That's what sportwriters do, spark dialogue and controversy through writing provocative things. He is just as allowed to say things like "We were never a dynasty, we might never be that good again, etc." as I am to say, "Simmons is just being reactionary and hysterical and it's starting to grate."

Agreed, but I can also defend him as well when I think he makes valid points which people call completely ridiculous. I worried about writing it because I completely agree dialogue should go both ways, but I just thought some of the comments were unjustified considering what he wrote and felt it had to be pointed out, that's all.
 
Fanfrom1960 said:
Off Topic. Too true. Bob Cousy was a highly entertaining guard with his passing and dribbling, and he was a very good scorer, but if Russell (and Heinsohn to a much less degree) don't get on that team, the Cooz goes down as just another flashy player. Great, but maybe not hall of fame.

Certainly they needed Russell, but I was being a bit sarcastic.

By the time they had the nucleus set including Satch, Heihnson, jones boys and couz, they might have won a series with gene conley, who knows?

I'm just making fun of Simmons "it all ended in Denver" baloney.

The teams made of humans and after a tremendous comeback from horrible injuries causing a swiss cheese like defense, they just ran out of gas, emotionally.

This teams going to be better than ever next year with an extra 3rd and 4th pick in the draft.
 
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