Bill Simmons "hears" that Moss and AD are gone, BB is "blowing it up"

[Deus Irae]

Re: Bill Simmons article - "What he hears"

What about Ron Jaworski? Patriots homer?

If only that question were relevant to my point....

My point was about the homers here who were blabbing about how the Panthers defenders didn't have a better perspective on the game than they had. As for Jaws, I thought that the Brady and Belichick press conferences and interviews were pretty clearly not agreeing with his assessment. Moss' comments themselves were certainly not in lock step with Jaws and Hoge, for that matter.

 

[BradyManny]

I don't trust Simmons' insight outside of the NBA, but it's worth remembering that he broke the Brady's ribs story. The guy's pretty connected. I still doubt that he's right, but I'm a little bit worried that he might be.

I don't know about that - it was already out there that Brady's ribs were injured. It was just a matter of the phrase "broken", which still hasn't been confirmed, and Belichick denied pretty strongly.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Bill Simmons article - "What he hears"

If only that question were relevant to my point....

My point was about the homers here who were blabbing about how the Panthers defenders didn't have a better perspective on the game than they had. As for Jaws, I thought that the Brady and Belichick press conferences and interviews were pretty clearly not agreeing with his assessment. Moss' comments themselves were certainly not in lock step with Jaws and Hoge, for that matter.

You can drop the whole passive-aggressive shtick. It gets old really fast.

They may have had a better perspective, but that doesn't necessarily make them correct in their assessment.

 

[Brono]

Rumor is that Belichick had a falling out with Kraft after the Spygate fiasco but Kraft couldn't fire Belichick at the time because Goodell convinced Kraft that it would hurt the NFL and even more so the Patriots. Firing Belichick would only add to the flame the idea that the video taping was a big part in our SB seasons. So Kraft has been stuck with Belichick, more or less. What makes it even more interesting is that since then, Belichick has been planning to move his operation out west, where he doesn't see as big a competition as he does here (since Parcells was hired in MIA). He apparently consulted the Hunts to hire Pioli and the Hunts agreed with the caveat that Belichick himself would come later on (this part is pretty unbelievable IMO). Belichick then traded Cassel and Vrabel to KC for a mere second round draft pick when he was offered a lot more from other teams. Apparently, BB was sold on Cassel after the 08 season that he could win a SB with a good team around him and placed him in KC to be his QB once he gets there. Vrabel was sent for his leadership and because he's BB's most effective enforcer. This was supposed to be a 3 year plan, with BB finally leaving the Pats after the 2010 season, but after Weiss and Crennel both became unemployed, it became obvious that it's time to pack up from NE, hire Weiss and Crennel, and see if they could rekindle what they had here in NE earlier this decade in KC.

Take it for what it's worth, it could be a useless rumor...

"I resign as HC of the NEP."

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Maybe BB is tired of seeing Moss with near single/below average digits in receiving yards in every playoff game he has been in here in NE

Randy Moss is like a box of matches...Sometimes they light immediately and spark,sometimes they snap in half and wilt away.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You're looking at one more season out of Moss, max. He'll be 33 and had injury problems this season. He was not double-teamed against the Ravens or Jets. He requires constant attention and praise to keep his motivation up. There was considerable evidence pointing to him quitting on plays this season. He's not going to be the same receiver as he was in 2007, not even close.

People just don't want to admit it and they use the piling on because of his undeserved rep excuse to try to stop rational discussion of a growing concern. It's easier to just blame Brady for locking on and being stubborn and making less than perfect throws...

The mental toll on a QB managing this kind of situation is far more debilitating than the physical stress of dealing with cracked or broken bones or healed knees... If you keep Moss the risk is we tread water for another season. Even with another outside threat to split coverage, doesn't do Brady any good unless we blow up the damn OL too. Defenses are taking away the deep threat not by doubling Moss so much as rushing Brady. And when they back off into coverage we don't have anyone Brady can trust consistently beyond Welker (and that will grow with Edleman).

Moss has been a model citizen by league standards. The standards have been altered for him here, though. He's not a leader, he's not an effort guy in the face of adversity, and his mere existenc e here has hung a bullseye on Brady's chest. Upgrade the OL, find some competent receivers and a TE who can work the middle of the field and maybe a young stud (hopefully Tate) to stretch it periodically without drawing a ton of attention and we might be back in business sooner rather than later. It's a lot less costly fix than dramatically upgrading the OL and RB while still needing to upgrade WR just to accommodate a #1WR who isn't a game changer at this juncture and whose contract is up after this season anyway.

Brady sent dozens of thinly veiled messages about what was happening in that locker room and on the practice field and on game day this season, and increasingly as the season progressed the tone became one of frustration. People can deny it all they want. Injuries are an excuse for poor performance. Guys have to be mentally tough. You have to find a way to fight through it. Welker joined the chorus down the stretch. By halftime last week even Faulk was on board... The only leader we failed to hear from was conspicuous in his absense, as his generally are... The cornerstones of this franchise in the Belichick era have been accountability and responsibility and self motivation and that other thing Brady kept reiterating, committment to each other. I'm personally tired of watching this team try to find ways to utilize Moss. I want to watch them find ways to win.

 

[Metaphors]

Any talk of a released player has to take into account that the Pats could very well face that player 2x next year. I don't think Belichick is worried about dealing with AD or Maroney on the opposite side. I do believe that he wouldn't want to see Moss in South Beach or the swamps of Jersey.

Unless the Pats need cap room for some master plan, I see almost no upside in getting rid of Moss. Brady should be fully healthy, but do you really want his only familiar targets to be Baker and Edelman? Why not just send an invitation to blitz Brady with 7 on every down?

Use this year to get Welker healthy, develop Tate, replace Faulk, refocus on the TE (either with or without Watson) and get another weapon or two at WR. All of this is MUUUUUUUCH easier with Moss than without him.

The Pats have two 1st round picks and 2011 and the following players likely available to them:

Julio Jones Alabama 6-4 212
A.J. Green Georgia 6-4 208
Michael Floyd Notre Dame 6-3 220
Jonathan Baldwin Pittsburgh 6-5 225

All of them big, strong and athletic. If you want to let Moss go and replace him with one of these guys, that makes more sense.

 

[dhamz]

I just want to know what his buddies Stoner, Slinky, Poptart, and Jdog think about the Pats.

Simmons has no connections to the Pats or really in the NFL for that matter outside of talking to a bunch of media guys on his podcast. If he did have inside sources, you'd know because he name drops every connection he has. He has some in the NBA which he reminds everyone endlessly since he knows a couple GMs and some in baseball because one his buddies works on Baseball Tonight.

Nothing he said there is a big stretch and has appeared in threads all over this board all week. I just don't think any of it came from a guy on the inside in Foxboro which he doesn't say but I think many would infer he meant.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Rumor is that Belichick had a falling out with Kraft after the Spygate fiasco but Kraft couldn't fire Belichick at the time because Goodell convinced Kraft that it would hurt the NFL and even more so the Patriots. Firing Belichick would only add to the flame the idea that the video taping was a big part in our SB seasons. So Kraft has been stuck with Belichick, more or less. What makes it even more interesting is that since then, Belichick has been planning to move his operation out west, where he doesn't see as big a competition as he does here (since Parcells was hired in MIA). He apparently consulted the Hunts to hire Pioli and the Hunts agreed with the caveat that Belichick himself would come later on (this part is pretty unbelievable IMO). Belichick then traded Cassel and Vrabel to KC for a mere second round draft pick when he was offered a lot more from other teams. Apparently, BB was sold on Cassel after the 08 season that he could win a SB with a good team around him and placed him in KC to be his QB once he gets there. Vrabel was sent for his leadership and because he's BB's most effective enforcer. This was supposed to be a 3 year plan, with BB finally leaving the Pats after the 2010 season, but after Weiss and Crennel both became unemployed, it became obvious that it's time to pack up from NE, hire Weiss and Crennel, and see if they could rekindle what they had here in NE earlier this decade in KC.

Take it for what it's worth, it could be a useless rumor...

Considering you're it's source that's better than an even money bet. I'd be careful this week, Ian has an itchy trigger finger for a change...

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Bill Simmons article - "What he hears"

You can drop the whole passive-aggressive shtick. It gets old really fast.

They may have had a better perspective, but that doesn't necessarily make them correct in their assessment.

Your post was completely irrelevant to what I'd posted, not to mention it being generally silly. I posted that way for kindness because I respect you as a poster and didn't want to get into it with you over something as obvious as Moss in that game.

Moss came out and criticized his own Carolina performance. Brady spent time pointing to "frustration" and having to work through it. To cite to Jaws after that is just ridiculous.

 

[Zeus]

There's no way BB is even close to making these types of decisions, especially with the whole labor situation so muddled.

 

[Brono]

Best to be skeptical about unsourced reports, unless they're made by someone with a proven track record, IMO.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

I wouldn't be shocked if the Patriots traded Moss. To just plain dump him would not be very intelligent. He still has some value and I'm sure we could get at least a second rounder for him.

Blowing things up and even trading Moss does not shock me. In the years the Patriots won they hung their hat on defense, running the ball and clutch situational football. Now they have become the type of team that the Patriots of old would always upset. They are a predictable passing team that runs a vanilla defense.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Bill Simmons article - "What he hears"

Your post was completely irrelevant to what I'd posted, not to mention it being generally silly. I posted that way for kindness because I respect you as a poster and didn't want to get into it with you over something as obvious as Moss in that game.

Moss came out and criticized his own Carolina performance. Brady spent time pointing to "frustration" and having to work through it. To cite to Jaws after that is just ridiculous.

Well perhaps I interpreted your original post incorrectly.

I'm not trying to make the case that Moss wasn't dogging it; I'm agnostic on that question, since I don't really know the extent of his injuries this past season.

I was merely raising the point that non-homer analysts and commentators generally came to Moss' defense, and that it wasn't just homers on this forum who defended him. But since, as you've said, that wasn't the point you were making, I suppose it wasn't relevant

 

[MNF]

Re: Bill Simmons article - "What he hears"

Moss isnt going anywhere

I agree. Everytime something goes wrong with the team people are quick to point the finger to Moss and throw him off the team.

 

[condon84]

Considering you're it's source that's better than an even money bet. I'd be careful this week, Ian has an itchy trigger finger for a change...

nice subtle hint...

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pats trade Moss and use that compensation in return to try to trade for Vincent Jackson. However, I rather see the Pats keep Moss and trade for Vincent Jackson.

 

[zimmy]

Re: Bill Simmons article - "What he hears"

The season only ended under a week ago and I seriously doubt Bill has made all these decisions already. I'm sure he'll be reviewing film with Ernie Adams, Caserio etc and deciding on some strategies for where to go in free agency and the draft, what areas need strengthening, who do we re-sign etc but he hasn't made these huge decisions yet, and if he has, he certainly hasn't told Bill Simmons. I'm not saying Moss and Thomas won't be shown the door but what is Simmons source, he didn't have any quotes did he? All seems a bit pre-emptive on his part

 

[Mack Herron]

We tend to be quick to dump folks, but before we do that we should have some confidence that they can be replaced with somebody better. In very few cases is there addition by subtraction.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

If BB is going to dump Moss, it has to be because of the behind the scenes stuff.

Moss had a fairly productive season despite the double teams and Brady's loss of arm strength after the unjuries.