Bill Cowher on 98.5

[Rob0729]

Ditka earlier this week, J. Johnson forever and now Cowher. And people like Florio just absolutely refuse to report it.

Florio is a Steelers fan. You will never get him posting a story that one of his favorite football team's Super Bowl wins deserves an * next to it. I mean since so many fans around the league do it to Belichick's Super Bowl wins, shouldn't they do it to Cowher's and Johnson's and Ditka's (although Ditka is quick to point fingers at others, yet never has admitted to his teams ever doing anything wrong).

 

[Fixit]

Florio is a Steelers fan. You will never get him posting a story that one of his favorite football team's Super Bowl wins deserves an * next to it. I mean since so many fans around the league do it to Belichick's Super Bowl wins, shouldn't they do it to Cowher's and Johnson's and Ditka's (although Ditka is quick to point fingers at others, yet never has admitted to his teams ever doing anything wrong).

This is great. Guy at work is a Stealers* fan and has been talking smack about the Pats cheating.

Now it's on like the original "Donkey Kong" through the upcoming "Donkey Kong Country Returns."

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Ok, not to rehash Spygate, but he was pretty honest about all the Spygate stuff. As he said in the past, he felt the whole situation was overblown. But he went beyond that. He admitted he had guys in the stands stealing signals of the defense and matching it up with the game tape later. He said although he didn't use a video camera, he felt what he did was no different than Spygate. He also said that videotaping signals had no bearing in the Pats' wins over the Steelers and that he felt honored and that it was a sign of respect for his defense if people felt they had to steal the signals of his defense. I wish he was more vocal like this during the Spygate ordeal.

This is the general view held by 99% past/present coaches in the NFL.
Player reaction is irrelevant because they don't know whether it's "blown up or stuffed with feathers".
The real culprit behind the ridiculous overblown don't let the facts get in the way hype of spygate was the media. It was their feeding frenzy and it came about because Belichick has never and will never kiss mediot bum. One of the reasons why I love Belichick is I have the same visceral distain for the media he does. Sports media is no different than news media. All agenda all the time.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

The entire thing was a figment of the NFL's imagination. How does it cost us 1.5mil and a no. 1 draft pick when they change the rule. Then 3 years later only cost a 50k fine? Seems to me the 2nd time should be worse, just by the fact the league spent an entire year talking about it.

Note that we were caught taping signals and only accused - and subsequently cleared - of taping opponent walk-thru.

Whereas, the Broncos had a tape of their opponent's walk thru. And mystery that their HC, who should be well aware of its implication, is alleged to have sat on that tape for two weeks without reporting it.

NFL docked them only $50k fine explaining it was an individual who broke the rules without his HC being aware of it. On the other hand, our entire team was accused of knowing about breaking the rule and systematically exploiting it. Hence the bigger fine.

It is what it is.

=========

Now, wearing the devil's hat, my questions:

- If taping was not that big a deal and done by others, why did we not fight and instead meekly accept these ridiculous fines that tarnished our franchise name and past records in the eyes of the public forever?

- Why did BB and Kraft meet with all other club managers and coaches to explain if it is not that big a deal? (And I think it was reported that their explanation included an apology that many in the room found touching and sincere.)

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Note that we were caught taping signals and only accused - and subsequently cleared - of taping opponent walk-thru.

Whereas, the Broncos had a tape of their opponent's walk thru. And mystery that their HC, who should be well aware of its implication, is alleged to have sat on that tape for two weeks without reporting it.

NFL docked them only $50k fine explaining it was an individual who broke the rules without his HC being aware of it. On the other hand, our entire team was accused of knowing about breaking the rule and systematically exploiting it. Hence the bigger fine.

It is what it is.

=========

Now, wearing the devil's hat, my questions:

- If taping was not that big a deal and done by others, why did we not fight and instead meekly accept these ridiculous fines that tarnished our franchise name and past records in the eyes of the public forever?

- Why did BB and Kraft meet with all other club managers and coaches to explain if it is not that big a deal? (And I think it was reported that their explanation included an apology that many in the room found touching and sincere.)

Because Kraft is a consiliator and concensus builder by design. He wasn't going to tear the league apart or threaten lawsuits like Polian did when a ruling went against him. Kraft just wanted the whole thing to go away and not drag on into a season and impact his franchise and brand on and off the field. What caused spygate to morph into some ****amamie moral drama where retribution was required was the jealousy of the ego driven competition committee and a resentful national media getting in a rookie commissioners ear and inciting him to inflict defeat on the one guy every member of that committee saw as a threat to their own existence.

 

[PatsDeb]

Because Kraft is a consiliator and concensus builder by design. He wasn't going to tear the league apart or threaten lawsuits like Polian did when a ruling went against him. Kraft just wanted the whole thing to go away and not drag on into a season and impact his franchise and brand on and off the field. What caused spygate to morph into some ****amamie moral drama where retribution was required was the jealousy of the ego driven competition committee and a resentful national media getting in a rookie commissioners ear and inciting him to inflict defeat on the one guy every member of that committee saw as a threat to their own existence.

While this response is quite dramatic, I think it's accurate. The Pats are Kraft's shining business model and he prides himself on being a "player" in the NFL. He just wanted it all to go away and thought accepting the punishment and apologizing was the fastest way to get rid of the problem. I don't think he anticipated (or maybe it was anticipated, but he thought it would die down quicker this way) the media frenzy and the hatred of all the fans out there for the Pats, and particularly BB, who've probably stomped down their teams at some point in the last decade of their NFL dominance.

It is what it is, and Kraft and BB do their best to show they've moved on whenever Spygate related stuff surfaces (and we Pats fans should do the same). All they can do to quiet the naysayers is keep winning.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Because Kraft is a consiliator and concensus builder by design. He wasn't going to tear the league apart or threaten lawsuits like Polian did when a ruling went against him. Kraft just wanted the whole thing to go away and not drag on into a season and impact his franchise and brand on and off the field. What caused spygate to morph into some ****amamie moral drama where retribution was required was the jealousy of the ego driven competition committee and a resentful national media getting in a rookie commissioners ear and inciting him to inflict defeat on the one guy every member of that committee saw as a threat to their own existence.

Thanks Mo. I quite agree - and admire - in Kraft being an astute businessman who is probably among the best in promoting the concept of unity and team spirit even with fellow businessmen if it advances the industry forward.

I don't expect that submissive trait in BB especially when it is his honesty that is being questioned and his personal reputation that has and is being continually smeared in the mud.

However, what you point out - the moral drama and the role of the resentful media in fanning the spiteful flames - is exactly what horrified fans like me, because we were unprepared for Kraft/BB's submissive strategy that left us fans with little to defend against the sneers and taunts of the opposing fans, especially in public places. In fact, Patsfans like me outside NE, have mastered the art of a patient smile and tolerance when some other fan calls us cheatriots whilst half the other fans in that bar/meeting place holler a resounding cry of approval.

 

[Patspsycho]

In retrospect, I think that remaining silent may have been the worse thing to do- it served as an admission of guilt (by projection) even if the motive behind it was to stay a conciliator and "builder by consensus."

I wonder if it could have been better to sustain a PR campaign around the premise that the rules on filming opponents was so poorly written.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In retrospect, I think that remaining silent may have been the worse thing to do- it served as an admission of guilt (by projection) even if the motive behind it was to stay a conciliator and "builder by consensus."

I wonder if it could have been better to sustain a PR campaign around the premise that the rules on filming opponents was so poorly written.

It's a tough call. From a PR standpoint there are two schools of thought.

1) Take you medicine and shut up (see Kraft/BB)
2) Fight to the death for you honor (see Roger Clemens)

I don't know what the right path would have been for the NEP. Would the Andy Petitte-esque path been more appropriate? (I want to win for me and our fans and I got caught up in the moment and please forgive me). Maybe. I believe that the NFL, with its brand so powerful and the NEP being the NY Yankees conglomerate of the league with it's PR-challenged coach, it really didn't have much to work with. By going on before the SD game in 07, Kraft did all he could to move on. Tough situation no question.

I think that, under the circumstances they did the best that they could to save some face and respectability.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Before this past Super Bowl, he said he also did things regarding stealing offensive signals, and "formations", whatever that meant. He said at the time that lots of teams did stuff, and that it didn't help the Pats win. He ALSO said at the time, that the Pats couldn't steal their signals anyway, because they weren't sending it signals that way, that they had a wrist band system.

You can google the interview, and it will take you to ESPN. I can't right now.........I will say I like Cowher for his honesty. Steeler fans in my office that told me we only beat them because of Spy Gate have been quiet since I forwarded the Cowher quotes to them. What, the Steelers cheat too? How could that be? LOL

 

[GrogansArmy]

Now, wearing the devil's hat, my questions:

- If taping was not that big a deal and done by others, why did we not fight and instead meekly accept these ridiculous fines that tarnished our franchise name and past records in the eyes of the public forever?

- Why did BB and Kraft meet with all other club managers and coaches to explain if it is not that big a deal? (And I think it was reported that their explanation included an apology that many in the room found touching and sincere.)

I recall that back when spygate first blew up, there was a poster on a national forum who *seemed* to have inside knowledge of what was going on behind the doors. He rarely posted, but when he did it was to speak of stuff that would happen, and he was always right. Stuff that only an insider would know. Many responders to his posts thought he was Jonathan Kraft posting under a pseudo name, and perhaps he was or wasn't, but it was always about patriots decisions of what was going to happen.

The point to all this is that a week after spygate happened, this person posted a long story basically giving the background and what had been going on the past week (after spygate). He explained that the reason BB and Kraft were being silent about the whole thing was because Goodell told BB and Kraft that if they "didn't keep their mouths shut" it would go much worse on them. Goodell didn't want them talking about it and making it possibly worse for the NFL as a whole.

Take it however you want, but the way he wrote it up, made a lot of sense and seemed very plausible. I just wish I could find that post again. But it was taken down a few days later.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

I recall that back when spygate first blew up, there was a poster on a national forum who *seemed* to have inside knowledge of what was going on behind the doors. He rarely posted, but when he did it was to speak of stuff that would happen, and he was always right. Stuff that only an insider would know. Many responders to his posts thought he was Jonathan Kraft posting under a pseudo name, and perhaps he was or wasn't, but it was always about patriots decisions of what was going to happen.

The point to all this is that a week after spygate happened, this person posted a long story basically giving the background and what had been going on the past week (after spygate). He explained that the reason BB and Kraft were being silent about the whole thing was because Goodell told BB and Kraft that if they "didn't keep their mouths shut" it would go much worse on them. Goodell didn't want them talking about it and making it possibly worse for the NFL as a whole.

Take it however you want, but the way he wrote it up, made a lot of sense and seemed very plausible. I just wish I could find that post again. But it was taken down a few days later.

Please see if you have luck tracking that one because there could be responses to that that in turn quoted the original text.

Obviously there were more things going in the background than what we read what's fed to the mediots. Granted, who knows if that poster has better info that the rest of us? But still, worth a read. Thanks in advance.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

It's a tough call. From a PR standpoint there are two schools of thought.

1) Take you medicine and shut up (see Kraft/BB)
2) Fight to the death for you honor (see Roger Clemens)

I don't know what the right path would have been for the NEP. Would the Andy Petitte-esque path been more appropriate? (I want to win for me and our fans and I got caught up in the moment and please forgive me). Maybe. I believe that the NFL, with its brand so powerful and the NEP being the NY Yankees conglomerate of the league with it's PR-challenged coach, it really didn't have much to work with. By going on before the SD game in 07, Kraft did all he could to move on. Tough situation no question.

I think that, under the circumstances they did the best that they could to save some face and respectability.

I hear you. What I have difficulty in accepting is Kraft, being the shrewd businessman he is, folding his cards indicating that his cards are no match for his opponent even though he has more than adequate chips to cover his opponent's all-in bet. (sorry for the poker reference, in a hurry and hope it made sense)

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Didnt Belichick go on 60 minutes at one point? I missed the interview so Im not sure what he said.

 

[BradyBranch39]

Didnt Belichick go on 60 minutes at one point? I missed the interview so Im not sure what he said.

This?
YouTube - Eye To Eye: Bill Belichick (CBS News)

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

In retrospect, I think that remaining silent may have been the worse thing to do- it served as an admission of guilt (by projection) even if the motive behind it was to stay a conciliator and "builder by consensus."

I wonder if it could have been better to sustain a PR campaign around the premise that the rules on filming opponents was so poorly written.

Moe described Kraft's philosophy well, which was consistent with his character and his business philosophy. He's a no rocking the boat, go along guy who values his reputation and word and is private in his dealings. Not ostentatious and not a 'playah' in the PR world. But there's no question that the Pats misjudged and greatly underestimated the anti-Patriots backlash. I'm in the camp that it was a no win situation. I believe that the Commish was hostile to the org and with the support of a few influential owners plus the Polians and Fishers on the Compensation Committee, most likely threatened even greater punishment, maybe even suspending BB or worse should the Pats return fire which risked exposing other coaches and embarrassing the NFL.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

This?
YouTube - Eye To Eye: Bill Belichick (CBS News)

Thanks for posting this.

I am glad I saw it again now because it made me realize that our PR department fumbled badly in not countering the smear campaign against us. Maybe their hands were tied or maybe they badly underestimated how this fiasco could have damaged our reputation and records.

I became more mad after hearing BB say (btw, don't think this full 15 minute was telecast to the national audience):

=================

"...if [cheating] was the intent, we might have done it in a more discreet way. We were open about it...."

"....[signals] weren't anything that weren't available or visible. We did in a way that was more convenient and in way we could study it a little bit better. Those signals were available for anyone that wanted to see them."

"...[signals] were mosaic....there were never/not QB-ErnieAdams-BB-OffensiveCoordinter meeting where we sat down, looked at signals and made up game plans based on signals. That never happened."

"...[signals] were one part of a very broad.. 100s of things that are put into preparation and game planning..."

'..there was no 'ok, we are going to sit down here on this day and have this meeting and there's the signals, and here's the plays we are going to run' and all that, that never happened.

So, there was no calculated deliberate system that put into place to take advantage of this illegal taping?

"No, because you can't take advantage of the signals because you never know if they are ever going to be available or not."

==================

There are more gems like 'this is no DNA" when he is questioned why across the sidelines and why on videotape. But by this point it was clear that here was an individual on national TV with nothing to hide and taking sole responsibility because he went by the byelaws and failed to get clarification on the memo primarily because he assumed he was ok as long as he was not using those recordings 'DURING THE GAME'.

I wish this whole interview could have been broken down as an "Idiot's guide to cameragate" (some of us actually tried to do it back then but well, it didn't get much mileage) and distributed by the Pats PR to every single media outlet whenever some idiot with an agenda cared to slur us.

Maybe they did and maybe the time was just not conducive for reason and understanding to prevail over the fury and envy against the achivements of a brilliant coach and successful owner.

I will still have my patient smile when I hear someone call us cheats. If the person is willing to listen, I will explain what BB said in this interview. If not, it is what it is. No point talking to a stone.

GO PATS!!

Wish the team saw this tape every time we are about to play the Jesters and we D E M O L I S H them on Monday.

 

[RodThePat]

Thanks for posting this.

I am glad I saw it again now because it made me realize that our PR department fumbled badly in not countering the smear campaign against us. Maybe their hands were tied or maybe they badly underestimated how this fiasco could have damaged our reputation and records.

I became more mad after hearing BB say (btw, don't think this full 15 minute was telecast to the national audience):

=================

"...if [cheating] was the intent, we might have done it in a more discreet way. We were open about it...."

"....[signals] weren't anything that weren't available or visible. We did in a way that was more convenient and in way we could study it a little bit better. Those signals were available for anyone that wanted to see them."

"...[signals] were mosaic....there were never/not QB-ErnieAdams-BB-OffensiveCoordinter meeting where we sat down, looked at signals and made up game plans based on signals. That never happened."

"...[signals] were one part of a very broad.. 100s of things that are put into preparation ann game planning..."

'..there was no 'ok, we are going to sit down here on this day and have this meeting and there's the signals, and here's the plays we are going to run' and all that, that never happened.

So, there was no calculated deliberate system that put into place to take advantage of this illegal taping?

"No, because you can't take advantage of the signals because you never know if they are ever going to be available or not."

==================

There are more gems like 'this is no DNA" when he is questioned why across the sidelines and why on videotape. But by this point it was clear that here was an individual on national TV with nothing to hide and taking sole responsibility because he went by the byelaws and failed to get clarification on the memo primarily because he assumed he was ok as long as he was not using those recordings 'DURING THE GAME'.

I wish this whole interview could have been broken down as an "Idiot's guide to cameragate" (some of actually tried to do it back then but well, it didn't get much mileage) and distributed by the Pats PR to every single media outlet whenever some idiot with an agenda cared to slur us.

Maybe they did and maybe the time was just not conducive for reason and understanding to prevail over the fury and envy against the achivements of a brilliant coach and successful owner.

I will still have my patient smile when I hear someone call us cheats. If the person is willing to listen, I will explain what BB said in this interview. If not, it is what it is. No point talking to a stone.

GO PATS!!

Wish the team saw this tape every time we are about to play the Jesters and we D E M O L I S H them on Monday.

This interview makes one thing very clear to me: taping signals was used as a more organized way of sorting out teams' tendencies on defense. That's all. Nothing more to it.

Only dumb**** fans of other teams actually believe the Patriots knew everything that was coming from the opposing team and adjusted their play call pre-snap according to defensive signals given from the other side of the field. Yeah, read that again. That's how ridiculous the whole deal is.

 

[Bella*chick]

People are completely uninterested in hearing about the truth. If God came down and spelled out what Spygate was really about, they would smile, nod and go back to calling us the Cheatriots. THey don't care what really happened. They just hate us no matter what.

The smarter football fans got beyond it though. I see it in other forums...for example the THanksgiving game. I saw a few posters making Belicheat comments but by the end of the game the smart posters were all talking about how consistently good the Pats are and wishing their team would emulate us.

 

[Patspsycho]

Moe described Kraft's philosophy well, which was consistent with his character and his business philosophy. He's a no rocking the boat, go along guy who values his reputation and word and is private in his dealings. Not ostentatious and not a 'playah' in the PR world. But there's no question that the Pats misjudged and greatly underestimated the anti-Patriots backlash. I'm in the camp that it was a no win situation. I believe that the Commish was hostile to the org and with the support of a few influential owners plus the Polians and Fishers on the Compensation Committee, most likely threatened even greater punishment, maybe even suspending BB or worse should the Pats return fire which risked exposing other coaches and embarrassing the NFL.

That would make sense.. it being that the practice was already rampant through the NFL, and exposing it would have been an unprecedented scandal.