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Bill B. Let One Get Away!


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who would be better in the red zone the giraffe or the horse?

Giraffe is tall but may not get off the jam at the line.

The horse could run a sweep through traffic for a pass.

I'll take the high balled horse.
 
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who would be better in the red zone the giraffe or the horse?

Giraffe is tall but may not get off the jam at the line.

The horse could run a sweep through traffic for a pass.

I'll take the high balled horse.

Horses already play pro sports. Surely you've heard of horse-hockey.
They look good in any uniform. No one has ever said, "A giraffe of a different color."
There's also no such thing as a team of giraffes.
They're popular at after game parties too. You'll never hear a woman say, "Look at that giraffe kok!"
 
Horses already play pro sports. Surely you've heard of horse-hockey.
They look good in any uniform. No one has ever said, "A giraffe of a different color."
There's also no such thing as a team of giraffes.
They're popular at after game parties too. You'll never hear a woman say, "Look at that giraffe kok!"
Horse pucky! :eek:
 
If Belichick let anyone get away last year it was Anquan Boldin

Boldin was ripe for the taking and probably could have been signed for reasonable amounts.

In weeks 5 through 17 (when Branch was with the Pats), Boldin had 37 receptions for 482 yards and 4 TDs. In 11 games to Boldin's 12 over that span, Branch caught 48 balls for 707 yards and 5 TDs.

Needless to say, Bill traded for the right receiver.
 
julius peppers, had 8 sacks last season playing in pretty much the same system he has played in he's whole career i dont think he would have done any better with the pats playing OLB the bears payed allmost 2 million per sack and no he would not have taken less to play for the pats

if BB did let one get away it was Seymour two years ago IMO they could have signed him for under 10 million per in a uncaped years and still signed Wilfork,
 
Stupid BB and Front Officefor not paying all that money to a player who would be moving to a position with no prior experience.

What were they doing! :rolleyes:
 
Drafting someone in the first round who only plays on 3rd down is poor salary cap management, and having a player that is only good at one thing is extremely inefficient when filling out a 53-man active roster. If the Patriots do draft someone at #17 who primarily rushed the passer with his hand down in college, I fully expect that Belichick and the coaching staff have evaluated the player and have acknowledged the player's potential to drop back and play standing up effectively.

I would only agree with drafting a 'sub-rusher' at #17 if that player would eventually (within the season) develop into a complete 34 OLB.

We ran through the regular season this past year at 14-2, only to have our few holes exposed in the playoffs by the Jets. Don't you think that it would be smart if we addressed those holes?

The pass rush is clearly one of the reasons our defense has struggled and with the number of talented edge rushers in this draft don't you think its reasonable to assume we could coach a few of them up to excel in our scheme?

Also, a new rookie wage scale will most likely be incorporated into the new CBA (hopefully this week). It looks like teams will not have to pay anymore astronomical salaries to high draft picks, so I don't think the salary of any rookie is going to screw up our cap irrevocably.
 
In weeks 5 through 17 (when Branch was with the Pats), Boldin had 37 receptions for 482 yards and 4 TDs. In 11 games to Boldin's 12 over that span, Branch caught 48 balls for 707 yards and 5 TDs.

Needless to say, Bill traded for the right receiver.

That's a stupid statement

Are you saying Boldin would not ave more productivity catching passes from Brady than a struggling Flacco?

Think about it......Brady made Reche Caldwell look good,I am sure Boldin would have has more than 482 yards here,especially as a main downfield threat.
 
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That's a stupid statement

Are you saying Boldin would not ave more productivity catching passes from Brady than a struggling Flacco?

Think about it......Brady made Reche Caldwell look good,I am sure Boldin would have has more than 482 yards here,especially as a main downfield threat.

We're talking about a difference of 225 yards on 11 receptions in one fewer game. If we were talking about Clausen, then sure. But upgrading from Flacco to Brady isn't THAT big of an upgrade.
 
We're talking about a difference of 225 yards on 11 receptions in one fewer game. If we were talking about Clausen, then sure. But upgrading from Flacco to Brady isn't THAT big of an upgrade.

Yes, it is.
 
We're talking about a difference of 225 yards on 11 receptions in one fewer game. If we were talking about Clausen, then sure. But upgrading from Flacco to Brady isn't THAT big of an upgrade.

Are you kidding me?

Flacco could be an up and coming QB but you seriously cannot put him in the same sentence as Brady....or even in the top 10 QBs right now to be honest.

Even when Brady had a horrid playoff game in 2009 against Baltimore,he still did more than Flacco did,I think Flacco had like 25 yards passing that game.

Flacco relies on his RBs and defense to carry the team,he has never had to put the burden of a game directly on his shoulders like Brady has.
 
we're talking about a difference of 225 yards on 11 receptions in one fewer game. If we were talking about clausen, then sure. But upgrading from flacco to brady isn't that big of an upgrade.

lolololoolololol
 
Are you kidding me?

Flacco could be an up and coming QB but you seriously cannot put him in the same sentence as Brady....or even in the top 10 QBs right now to be honest.

Even when Brady had a horrid playoff game in 2009 against Baltimore,he still did more than Flacco did,I think Flacco had like 25 yards passing that game.

Flacco relies on his RBs and defense to carry the team,he has never had to put the burden of a game directly on his shoulders like Brady has.
Brady completed 18 more passes than Flacco during the season. Less than 6%.

Clearly there is a huge difference between Tom Brady and Joe Flacco but what is pertinent to the argument of the production of a WR is how many passes were caught, not how good the QB was doing it.

I don't know how Branchs production on a team completing 20 passes a game is not apple to apples to Boldins on a team completing 19.
 
Are you kidding me?

Flacco could be an up and coming QB but you seriously cannot put him in the same sentence as Brady....or even in the top 10 QBs right now to be honest.

Even when Brady had a horrid playoff game in 2009 against Baltimore,he still did more than Flacco did,I think Flacco had like 25 yards passing that game.

Flacco relies on his RBs and defense to carry the team,he has never had to put the burden of a game directly on his shoulders like Brady has.
Brady threw 492 passes Flacco 489.
Obviously Brady did a better job with them, but his receivers had no more opportunities, and barely more successes than Flacco.

You are confusing quantity, which equates to WR stats, with quality which eqautes to efficiency
 
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julius peppers, had 8 sacks last season playing in pretty much the same system he has played in he's whole career i dont think he would have done any better with the pats playing OLB the bears payed allmost 2 million per sack and no he would not have taken less to play for the pats

if BB did let one get away it was Seymour two years ago IMO they could have signed him for under 10 million per in a uncaped years and still signed Wilfork,

Agreed! Seymour's exit has alot to do with my whole Peppers statement. Again I'm just venting I know its water under'da bridge so hopefully we'll be able to look forward and address pass rushing and hope 1st of all there is a season.
 
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Agreed! Seymour was segway into needing Peppers so make that 2 that slipped away, good point.
Seymour and Peppers play different positions and contribute different roles.
 
That's a stupid statement

Are you saying Boldin would not ave more productivity catching passes from Brady than a struggling Flacco?

Think about it......Brady made Reche Caldwell look good,I am sure Boldin would have has more than 482 yards here,especially as a main downfield threat.

I like Boldin as a receiver, and there's no doubt he'd have been better with Brady throwing to him than Flacco. But I think you need to review Boldin's season before blaming it all on Flacco.

For one thing, Boldin is not a main downfield threat. He averaged 13.1 yards per catch last season. That's actually slightly above his career average of 12.9, so that's clearly not Flacco's fault. In fact, in his past 3 seasons in Arizona, he averaged 11.9 YPC.

In comparing his first season with the Ravens to the rest of his time in Arizona, one could argue there was a clear drop due to the type of offense and QB and all sorts of other variables. At the same time, he benefited greatly from having Larry Fitzgerald on the field with him. So it's not a clear apples to apples comparison. Sure, he got fewer passes. But he averaged more yards per catch. And he got more attention without a world-class WR on the field with him.

I was hoping we made a move for Boldin as well, but I'm happy with the production we got out of Branch. Consider:

Anquan Boldin cost the Ravens a 3rd and a 4th (they did receive a 5th in the deal).
Deion Branch cost us a 4th round pick.

Boldin got a contract extension with the Ravens as part of the trade for 3 years, $25M.
Branch was paid $5.5M in 2010, and agreed to reduce his contract to around $2.2M with another $2M in incentives for 2011.

Boldin caught 64 passes for 837 yards and 7 TDs in 16 games, averaging 13.1 YPC.
Branch caught 61 passes for 818 yards and 6 TDs in 15 games, averaging 13.4 YPC.

Again, not apples to apples. If I had to guess at how much better Boldin could be playing with Brady, I'd start with the catch to target ratio first. If we look at Boldin's last 3 Arizona seasons, this number was around 69%. However, last year with the Ravens and Flacco:

Boldin caught 64 of 109 targets for 59%.
Branch caught 61 of 92 targets for 66%.

Targets are tough to decipher because they can mean many things. Obviously part of that is that Brady is more accurate than Flacco. But it clearly also shows Boldin got plenty of opportunities.

As for comparing to Boldin's last 3 seasons in Arizona, I picked those because Kurt Warner was the starter for those seasons. Obviously Warner is a much different type of QB than Brady, but they both have excellent accuracy. During this time, Boldin never averaged more than 12.1 YPC though, which suggests a lot of catches were in the short to intermediate passing game.

At the same time, Branch's season with the Patriots is based on 10 games. He missed the last week to rest an injury, and the first few weeks with Seattle, he wasn't a primary receiver. If you calculate his numbers across an entire season, you end up with similar results.

Boldin (69% completion)
75 catches, 983 yards, 109 targets

Branch (65% completion)
77 catches, 1032 yards, 118 targets

Or you could argue Boldin gets more targets here and catches a higher percentage. But he has a lower YPC historically so it still doesn't work out to much of a difference. In terms of TD ratio compared to catches, there's a slight difference of around half a catch last season, and around 0.75 catches over the course of a career.

Which is all a long way of saying there really wasn't much of a difference no matter how you want to slice this up.

You can argue Boldin is a better receiver than Branch. And maybe after exhausting tons of statistics, you might be right. But the difference won't be by much, and certainly nowhere near enough to justify $6M/season the next 3 years or the continued longing for Boldin in the line-up. I just don't get why this is such a big deal still.
 
I like Boldin as a receiver, and there's no doubt he'd have been better with Brady throwing to him than Flacco. But I think you need to review Boldin's season before blaming it all on Flacco.

For one thing, Boldin is not a main downfield threat. He averaged 13.1 yards per catch last season. That's actually slightly above his career average of 12.9, so that's clearly not Flacco's fault. In fact, in his past 3 seasons in Arizona, he averaged 11.9 YPC.

In comparing his first season with the Ravens to the rest of his time in Arizona, one could argue there was a clear drop due to the type of offense and QB and all sorts of other variables. At the same time, he benefited greatly from having Larry Fitzgerald on the field with him. So it's not a clear apples to apples comparison. Sure, he got fewer passes. But he averaged more yards per catch. And he got more attention without a world-class WR on the field with him.

I was hoping we made a move for Boldin as well, but I'm happy with the production we got out of Branch. Consider:

Anquan Boldin cost the Ravens a 3rd and a 4th (they did receive a 5th in the deal).
Deion Branch cost us a 4th round pick.

Boldin got a contract extension with the Ravens as part of the trade for 3 years, $25M.
Branch was paid $5.5M in 2010, and agreed to reduce his contract to around $2.2M with another $2M in incentives for 2011.

Boldin caught 64 passes for 837 yards and 7 TDs in 16 games, averaging 13.1 YPC.
Branch caught 61 passes for 818 yards and 6 TDs in 15 games, averaging 13.4 YPC.

Again, not apples to apples. If I had to guess at how much better Boldin could be playing with Brady, I'd start with the catch to target ratio first. If we look at Boldin's last 3 Arizona seasons, this number was around 69%. However, last year with the Ravens and Flacco:

Boldin caught 64 of 109 targets for 59%.
Branch caught 61 of 92 targets for 66%.

Targets are tough to decipher because they can mean many things. Obviously part of that is that Brady is more accurate than Flacco. But it clearly also shows Boldin got plenty of opportunities.

As for comparing to Boldin's last 3 seasons in Arizona, I picked those because Kurt Warner was the starter for those seasons. Obviously Warner is a much different type of QB than Brady, but they both have excellent accuracy. During this time, Boldin never averaged more than 12.1 YPC though, which suggests a lot of catches were in the short to intermediate passing game.

At the same time, Branch's season with the Patriots is based on 10 games. He missed the last week to rest an injury, and the first few weeks with Seattle, he wasn't a primary receiver. If you calculate his numbers across an entire season, you end up with similar results.

Boldin (69% completion)
75 catches, 983 yards, 109 targets

Branch (65% completion)
77 catches, 1032 yards, 118 targets

Or you could argue Boldin gets more targets here and catches a higher percentage. But he has a lower YPC historically so it still doesn't work out to much of a difference. In terms of TD ratio compared to catches, there's a slight difference of around half a catch last season, and around 0.75 catches over the course of a career.

Which is all a long way of saying there really wasn't much of a difference no matter how you want to slice this up.

You can argue Boldin is a better receiver than Branch. And maybe after exhausting tons of statistics, you might be right. But the difference won't be by much, and certainly nowhere near enough to justify $6M/season the next 3 years or the continued longing for Boldin in the line-up. I just don't get why this is such a big deal still.

Comparing Branch to Boldin does not work anyway because at this point last season Branch was STILL in Seattle while Boldin was on his way to Baltimore,we didn't know we were getting Branch....then again I wonder if the team knew that Moss wan't going to be here long either.
 
Comparing Branch to Boldin does not work anyway because at this point last season Branch was STILL in Seattle while Boldin was on his way to Baltimore,we didn't know we were getting Branch....then again I wonder if the team knew that Moss wan't going to be here long either.
Yet once we settled in with Branch here, we had one of the best halves of offense in NFL history. How is a WR who had a blah year anyway, the one that got away?
 
Yet once we settled in with Branch here, we had one of the best halves of offense in NFL history. How is a WR who had a blah year anyway, the one that got away?

Its not realistic to say 'well this guy had a blah year' and on and on because different teams would mean different results.

Sort of like saying Calvin Johnson had a blah year in Detroit,he would have had a blah year in Indianapolis....you can't go there.
 
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