Welcome to PatsFans.com

Biggest Myth: "Impossible to decode tapes at halftime"

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by borg, Apr 9, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. castlelong1

    castlelong1 Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Yes. When the ball is kicked off, maybe some coaching staff actually try to, you know, coach the game.

    Dean Pees: "Bill what are you doing?"
    Bill Belichichick: "Tape was late. You'll have to go without me as I finish up sign stealing."

    Maybe it is just me, but I doubt that conversation happened.:D
     
  2. castlelong1

    castlelong1 Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Well, that was what was in the camera.:rolleyes:
     
  3. magicianmerl

    magicianmerl Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Okay, as somebody who works in film (and video) let me set the record straight. EVERYTHING is digital. The tape they shoot on is digital tape. There is no digital to analog conversion happening. All NFL teams have industrial tape decks that are capable of stopping on a single frame. So a team could in theory take the tape and look at it at half time, but this process would only be a little more sophisticated than plopping in a VHS into a VCR. The NFL uses a very sophisticated program for logging every single down, however physically transferring the video tapes into this software is very time consuming. There is no possible way that this process could be completed within a half of football. On the other hand, the teams do imprint the game clock onto the video so if a coach wanted to look back at a single play during half time they would be capable of doing so.
     
  4. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,642
    Likes Received:
    217
    Ratings:
    +620 / 27 / -29

    You are correct in stating that a transfer would not be necessary. My basic point in this exercise is that a Team would only need to look at a very few specific plays....and I argue it would be third down pass plays. If they can find some useful info, then they can use it late in the game. With regards to changing the signals, I suspect the tapeholders would be able to learn if a change has occurred.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2008
  5. castlelong1

    castlelong1 Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Boy are you persistent. Unfortunately a persistent retard is still a retard.:D

    Did you read
    by Mo Lewis Rocks?

    Take away the vitriol and learn a bit, based on your boy John Clayton.
     
  6. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,020
    Likes Received:
    93
    Ratings:
    +320 / 4 / -1

    WRONG.

    Let's just clarify this:

    DIGITAL VIDEO FROM A DIGITAL NEEDS TO BE CAPTURED IN REAL-TIME. I work in digital video for a living, if you know of a way to capture from a DV tape faster than real-time, please come to my work and show me.

    Unless they recorded onto a hard drive (we do it at my work, and yes, you can then move the files over, even that takes time, but considerably less than recording onto tape )- and I'm nearly certain they didn't - they would not be able to capture all the video they took from the first half during half time.
     
  7. Fixit

    Fixit In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    Messages:
    4,843
    Likes Received:
    65
    Ratings:
    +272 / 3 / -3

    "Hey! Their signals are different! Therefore, I know exactly what the new ones mean!"
     
  8. fourthandmiles

    fourthandmiles On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Messages:
    466
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Let's just say it is possible, then what. That is not against the rules. It is where they taped from. The sideline. That was against the rules. We admitted that was wrong and paid the man.
     
  9. castlelong1

    castlelong1 Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Yes, your point is stupid. No team ever, in thehistorygoing back to 1922, changed their signals.

    I can't believe you have not thought of that.

    Let's say you are right. The evil Patriots now know the signals. Not one coach in the league was smart enough to change signals?

    That is the conclusion YOU are coming to. Gee, you must think your coach is an idiot.:D
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2008
  10. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,642
    Likes Received:
    217
    Ratings:
    +620 / 27 / -29

    Personal attacks will get you kicked off this board. Lighten up, chief
     
  11. BostonBullit

    BostonBullit On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2006
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I'd say please don't feed the trolls but it's kinda a slow time of year so...whatever...the theory presented has already been shredded by some logic so I'll just move on
     
  12. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    One part of this that nobody mentions...who is breaking down the tape? Belichick and his coaches have other things to do at halftime and are back on the field in 12 minutes. Belichick is involved in all aspects of the product put on the field but he is going to leave his 2nd half play calls/adjustments in the hands of someone else...meaning Belichick is going to adjust the play call and protection schemes based on information he has never seen?

    Before anyone mentions Ernie Adams, don't bother. Remember that he is the guy who spends hours breaking down tape to build profiles and analyze tendencies...not rip though an hour and a half of video watching coaches touch themselves in various places and correlate that to defensive results in 30 minutes or less (or your signal decoding is free).

    Besides all the other points people have made, try these on for size:

    When Brady goes to the line, he is constantly examining the defense and jabbering on and on about "Mike in Omaha" or some other such nonsense. Does it look like he is listening to his helmet receiver (which cuts off anyway) or looking to the sideline for guidance?

    If the Pats were stealing defensive signals by video, processing them during halftime and using them in the 2nd half, wouldn't you see a bunch of Pats games where the offense looked inept in the 1st half and became amazingly efficient in the 2nd? In fact, the general tendency for this team over the years is the exact opposite...jump out to a lead and sputter a bit in the 2nd half with the defense saving the day.

    Same thing for using the video to prep for a future game. You would expect to see the offensive output in the 2nd game against a team in a calendar year (any older and the info would be stale) to be dramatically better than the previous meeting. Go back and try to find that correlation. Betcha don't find anything.

    If stealing signals by video is such a danger to the integrity of the game, how about sending out this memo instead:

    "Dear NFL Security at Every Game (but especially every Patriots game),

    Please be on the lookout for anyone trying to get on the sidelines with a camera that is not authorized to be filming...you know, the guys with the big yellow or orange vest and big media passes.
    If you find someone with an unauthorized camera, please do not let them on the sidelines and report the incident to the league office.

    Thank you,
    Greg Aiello"

    Know why you never saw this memo? Because the powers that be didn't believe that unauthorized filming was a threat to league integrity. There were complaints (like neighbors saying you are playing your music too loud at night) and they dealt with it by sending out a memo instead of notifying the cops. Only when the media got involved did the "integrity" card get played.

    Belichick got slapped for violating an operating procedure that he didn't believe in. He knew the chances of getting caught were significant but the league hadn't made too big a deal about it in the past. Not understanding the media reaction was a lapse in judgement that cost a 1st round pick. The violation itself was a misdemenor but giving the media ammunition for questioning league integrity was a felony. It takes some pretty impressive reasoning to come up with a different conclusion:

    Belichick tapes!
    Taping bad!
    Belichick cheats!
    Cheating bad!
    Hulk smash!
     
  13. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    24,834
    Likes Received:
    371
    Ratings:
    +946 / 66 / -54

    #50 Jersey

    There is only one problem with this whole spiel of yours. No video viewing equipment is allowed into the lockerroom or into the coaches booth. The NFL has personnel there to ensure it doesn't happen.

    So, where are they supposed to view all this? In the hall? come on. You really are reaching here.
     
  14. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    24,834
    Likes Received:
    371
    Ratings:
    +946 / 66 / -54

    #50 Jersey

    No they couldn't. NO Video Viewing Equipment is allowed to be used at half-time in the lockerroom or in the coaching booth other than that provided by the league.
     
  15. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,842
    Likes Received:
    54
    Ratings:
    +112 / 1 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    The biggest myth is that borg made a sensible thread.
     
  16. Hardboiled

    Hardboiled Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0


    And this actually backs up BB's interpretation or makes it more believable. You can't use any of the computerized video equipment during the game.

    From a 60 minutes segment before the Houston SB. Panthers Coach Fox is showing off all the video tools he uses for game analysis/scouting.

    "There's a whole lot of the chess-game element involved in this," says Fox.

    However, this computerized chess game threatens to get so out of hand that the NFL has tried to rein it in.

    "We can't use any of this system on game day," says Fox. ​


    This goes to the long history of only using the editing/playback equipment before or after a game and is what I think BB was referring to in the By-Laws.


    For the CBS segement on how teams watch tape see: 60 Minutes Super Bowl
     
  17. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    43,183
    Likes Received:
    325
    Ratings:
    +816 / 27 / -33

    Bingo, about 60 responses and we come up with this.. it is so simple, but has become so very complicated..
     
  18. castlelong1

    castlelong1 Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    You thought that was personal? You have a retarded theory you stick by, don't respond to Mo Lewis Rocks and grow upset at the three mystery teams that did it right and waaay differently than the Patriots and are upset at being compared to a retard? Not called, compared to.

    Methinks some one needs a skin.:D

    BTW, do you plan on ever addressing Mo Lewis Rock's point or just pretending you did by complaining about me? (Lousy tactic on a WRITTEN forum.)
     
  19. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    28,352
    Likes Received:
    903
    Ratings:
    +2,953 / 35 / -63

    No Jersey Selected

    No it won't. If this was true, I would have been kicked off the board 600 posts ago. Take your own advice and lighten up.
     
  20. TripleOption

    TripleOption Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    You are incredibly stupid. For even a staff of coaches to decode signals being given by three different coaches, figure out who is the "live" coach and then sync it up to the game film/down and distance is a b*tch of a job...and to get it done in 15 minutes? impossible. Even in a few hours? Nope.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>