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Big Vince.....Not as Big

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Armchair Quarterback, Jul 24, 2012.

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  1. Armchair Quarterback

    Armchair Quarterback In the Starting Line-Up

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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2012
  2. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    if this translates into speed and quickness....i wouldn't want to be on opposing O-lines...
     
  3. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

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    I don't know what to think of this from a football perspective, but good for him from a sticking around on this earth longer perspective.
     
  4. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IMO there is no downside to this
     
  5. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know. For an o-lineman it is easier to push back a 300lb guy than a 340lb guy at least in theory. That would be my biggest concern.

    But if the Pats are moving more to towards a 4 man front, that extra weight means less because he will likely be allowed to penetrate more than tying up blockers.

    The potential positive sides are great though. He will be faster and potentially less suspetable to injuries based on putting extra weight on his joints.

    Let's just hope he lost the weight the right way so he didn't lose muscle with the fat.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2012
  6. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I'm not sure the physics of that assumption holds up well unless you also assume the 340 pound guy is stronger.

    Yes, there's SOME difference just from body weight, but I think not that much. If Vince just stood there and didn't resist, almost any reasonably fit, sufficiently tall/long-armed person could push him onto his back.
     
  7. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Assuming Vince is just as strong as he was when he is fat, that extra fat will make it harder to move him. But the reduced fat could make him quicker off the ball that could give him more leverage against the blocker. There are two sides of the argument.
     
  8. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's simple power to weight ratio.
     
  9. Armchair Quarterback

    Armchair Quarterback In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'd estimate he was playing at 355-375 lbs the last few of seasons which is fine for a NT in a 2 gap 3-4 defense where you want a strong base and anchor. I'd estimate by that picture he's closer to his listed weight of 325 and that they'll be running a different type of defense this year.
     
  10. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Haloti Ngata did this last offseason and didn't like it, so he's going back from 325 to 350 this offseason. This could be nothing, but I'll take this as another hint that the Pats are sticking with the 4-3. Either way, we should find out which way Belichick is leaning over the next week or so.
     
  11. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Wow this is quite interesting. I have a hard time seeing this as a negative. He is still a man among boys and dropping some extra weight will only be good for his health and durability.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  12. NSPF

    NSPF Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Let's not immediately assume this is a good thing. He played at his previous weight for a reason, and was dominant at that weight. Why would he change? Either he expects a slightly different role this season, or it was for health concerns. Does anyone see any other possibilities?
     
  13. BananaRepublican

    BananaRepublican Banned

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    Looks great to me, it could not happen by chance, it had to have been planned, and I think everybody that is thinking "4-3 penetrator" is spot on.

    The team seems to be changing up all the time so I'm glad this is developing. I think Love can play nose anyway, right?

    Vince is their most talented guy on D and I am glad to see him become featured as a pass rusher. Actually the guy can drop into coverage too. There isn't anything a slimmer Vince can't do. And this year he may return one to the house.
     
  14. Salva135

    Salva135 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that a 4x Pro-Bowl NT in his prime knows exactly what weight he needs to be at to perform at his expected level of play and that the coaching staff is well aware of any major drop in the weight of their best defensive player, and are on board with it. If he's dropped a bit of weight, there's a reason for it.


    ^what this guy said. There is zero chance Vince shows up to camp at a drastically different weight and surprises the coaching staff.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  15. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Two thoughts:

    1) the Patriots are sticking with 4-3 base. Did not expect that, but no big deal. I'm sure that he's doing exactly what Belichick told him to do, and this has me excited in its own right.

    2) Good for him. Seriously, given his family history of diabetes, I am happy re: this development.
     
  16. woolster22

    woolster22 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I am with you one hundred percent on 2. Although I, and many on here will disagree with your first point. IF, the young talent can produce on a level of situational role players (jones, bequette, Hightower), this defense isn't going to be a true anything. If these kids can grasp the concept and fanene can be what fat Albert wasn't (team first, dominating role player), this team will be running out a front six that could effectively lend itself to a 2-x or 6-x functional description. In short, two, maybe less, hands in the dirt. Four lbs wandering, two edge threat/flat coverage types, mayo up the middle with Hightower (i am so high on this kid, the roles he played under Saban while leading that d...) the true wild card. Keep in mind the guy from Oakland (top pick, injured as late but productive while healthy) as an elephant...
    I expect a heavy return to the ameoba type d of a few years ago, this time with more focus on acute zone overload apposed to the "three plus willie" attacks of almost a decade ago. Baltimore has been doing it for a while with ray in charge. Big two to up front with two limited coverage guys (edge rushers, more or less), a relative wild card, and Ray.
    Enter Vince, fanene. Jones, baguette and that's just the early pick rookies...(one of two contributing would be fantastic). Hightower as your wildcard, and mayo as your ray-esque leader/do it all type (i am NOT comparing mayo to Lewis, mayo is out classed)...did I mention Hightower? Pretty sure he may fit that bill as well...
    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
     
  17. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would concur with this. Vince is a consummate professional, and if he's lost weight there's a reason for it. And it's no coincidence that he did it after OTAs and minicamp. I'm sure it was done with the approval and possibly the suggestion of the coaching and conditioning staff.

    A couple of thoughts:

    1. Wilfork is a superbly conditioned athlete, even at 350#+. He showed little signs of fatigue or wear last year playing 86% of the defensive snaps at age 30. I've posted this before, but his conditioning regimen is quite impressive:

    Swimming proves beneficial for Vince Wilfork of New England Patriots – Vince Wilfork Jersey | New England Patriots Jerseys

    He has the conditioning of a Navy Seal in the body of a walrus.

    2. Off the Grid has often emphasized "core strength" in his assessment of line prospects, and we've discussed before the difference between mass and core strength:

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...2013-prospect-thread-page18.html#post3044496

    It's certainly possibly for Wilfork to drop 25+# and not lose any of his core strength, assuming he did it the right way. The loss of mass may make it marginally easier for an OL to deal with him, but it's probably not very significant. 285# Justin Smith has tremendous core strength and throws OLs around like rag dolls. The main area in which loss of mass concerns me is in terms of wear and tear over the course of a 16 game season. That's what happened with Ngata. His decreased weight led to added quickness at the beginning of last season and he was dominant, but he wore down over the course of the season and tailed off noticeably. So my main concern with the weight loss is that if Wilfork continues to play such a high snap count he may wear down over the course of the year.

    But I agree, we've got to assume that Vince and the coaching staff know what they're doing, and did this with a purpose. It will be interesting to see how it translates on the field. And from a personal perspective, it's got to be good.
     
  18. robertweathers

    robertweathers Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Agreed. The Pats tell their players exactly what their body type should be going into a season. I'm sure BB and VW had a conversion about what he should be playing at and the reasons were given (4-3, # of snaps, etc).

    Who knows, maybe there was a medical condition discovered this off-season and was kept quiet by the team and the family so he needed to lose a few pounds. As some have already stated, VW's family medial history is terrible.

    It could also have something to do with him being 31 years old and playing 86% of the defensive snaps last year too. Less weight, body doesn't have to work as hard. Less stress on the joints however being 300+ lbs maybe it doesn't matter.

    Regardless, from a lifestyle standpoint he looks good and seems healthy.
     
  19. NEGoldenAge

    NEGoldenAge Banned

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    I would expect that the root of the weight loss is much more likely to be Bianca than the defensive scheme.
     
  20. Sivy

    Sivy In the Starting Line-Up

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    Good for him and his future
     
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