Big Ted still missed

[jczxohn1]

In perusing draft possibilities and rehashing the performance of the LB corps,many have been commenting on the need for younger additions to build depth and take over for some of our over-30 LB's in 2007 and on. Lists have been compiled of "tweeners", DE/OLB types, whose various attributes have been discussed ad naseum. To qoute a familiar phrase, "that isn't what we're looking for." We've got them. Every blessed LB we have is one.
We need one good run-stuffing ILB. Not the same as a run-tackling LB. The kind who initiate contact with guards and fullbacks. Within 1 yd of the LOS. C. Brown isn't it. Biesel isn't. It isn't really Vrabel's thing and never was Tedy's. We had success stopping the run the end of last season by stunting to compensate for not having that one ILB. Our front 3 played admirably but won't make it through a full season without being victimized again by cut blocks if we don't have someone to clog those holes.
Comments?

 

[flutie2phelan]

....
We need one good run-stuffing ILB. Not the same as a run-tackling LB. The kind who initiate contact with guards and fullbacks. Within 1 yd of the LOS. C. Brown isn't it. Biesel isn't. It isn't really Vrabel's thing and never was Tedy's. We had success stopping the run the end of last season by stunting to compensate for not having that one ILB. Our front 3 played admirably but won't make it through a full season without being victimized again by cut blocks if we don't have someone to clog those holes.
Comments?

This charter member of the Danny Boy Fan Club ... for months now officially has sided with those who see Klecko's roster spot as OPEN.

But ... for the life of me ... i still cannot understand why he couldn't have been the heir to this vital role. Superb Big East NT ... too small for an NFL nose tackle. Why NOT do the same thing three steps back?

 

[jczxohn1]

This charter member of the Danny Boy Fan Club ... for months now officially has sided with those who see Klecko's roster spot as OPEN.

But ... for the life of me ... i still cannot understand why he couldn't have been the heir to this vital role. Superb Big East NT ... too small for an NFL nose tackle. Why NOT do the same thing three steps back?

It boggles my mind as well. Him taking that role seemed to be a no-brainer. Coming off his knee injury in '04 may have slowed him, they were trying Chatham out instead. Then, Biesel came on board. TJ said some interesting things about Biesel last Sat on EEI. He was surprised B. didn't pick it up better, and didn't necessarily rule him out, but said he may improve. IMO, he suffers from "lackawanna". More recognition involved from the ILB slot than from NT and that may have been Klecko's problem, too.

 

[DaBruinz]

It doesn't boggle my mind that the Pats didn't use Klecko at the ILB position. Why? Because they felt that they needed him at the NT position to back-up Wilfork since they had gotten rid of Traylor and Ethan Kelley. They probably would have been better off putting Klecko inside and letting Wright sink or swin as the back-up NT.

Personally, with how Hill is, I'd have him put on 15 lbs and be the back-up NT to Wilfork. He'd probably be more effective there than trying to be a DE.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I still wonder if Klecko's difficulties with ILB are attributable to him learning how to avoid the G's longer arms? If you watch tape of Klecko on the line you notice that he almost beats the snap because he has such a quick twitch. This lets him get inside the OL's reach before they can get set. Five steps off the line at ILB, Klecko now must be better with his hands to swat G's arms away before they can lock on, a whole new skill to acquire along with learning to read and react from the ILB's keys.

Whichever issue may have affected his ILB transition, he hasn't been cut yet - Klecko haters rejoice.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

It doesn't boggle my mind that the Pats didn't use Klecko at the ILB position. Why? Because they felt that they needed him at the NT position to back-up Wilfork since they had gotten rid of Traylor and Ethan Kelley. They probably would have been better off putting Klecko inside and letting Wright sink or swin as the back-up NT.

Personally, with how Hill is, I'd have him put on 15 lbs and be the back-up NT to Wilfork. He'd probably be more effective there than trying to be a DE.

The only problem with Hill inside is how tall he is, I notice that he doesn't seem to have the same ability that Warren and Seymour demonstrate for getting low and winning the pad wars with the C and Gs.

 

[DaBruinz]

The only problem with Hill inside is how tall he is, I notice that he doesn't seem to have the same ability that Warren and Seymour demonstrate for getting low and winning the pad wars with the C and Gs.

People keep saying that Hill's height is an issue, but I don't see how. The best NT in recent history, Ted Washington, was the exact same height as Hill. They are both 6'6.

As for getting low and winning the pad wars, when has he ever gone up against the Centers or guards to have that chance or so you could evaluate it?

Technique can be taught.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

People keep saying that Hill's height is an issue, but I don't see how. The best NT in recent history, Ted Washington, was the exact same height as Hill. They are both 6'6.

As for getting low and winning the pad wars, when has he ever gone up against the Centers or guards to have that chance or so you could evaluate it?

Technique can be taught.

I have no doubt that technique can be taught, I'm basing it on how the different DLs look as they engage the OLs on the line. Warren and Sey just look like they get their pads lower then Hill does when I watch them on tape. Flexibility and strength aren't monolithic standards for everyone, watching me touch my toes would demonstrate that in an instant!

 

[jczxohn1]

I still wonder if Klecko's difficulties with ILB are attributable to him learning how to avoid the G's longer arms? If you watch tape of Klecko on the line you notice that he almost beats the snap because he has such a quick twitch. This lets him get inside the OL's reach before they can get set. Five steps off the line at ILB, Klecko now must be better with his hands to swat G's arms away before they can lock on, a whole new skill to acquire along with learning to read and react from the ILB's keys.

Whichever issue may have affected his ILB transition, he hasn't been cut yet - Klecko haters rejoice.

When Klecko came in, he was squatting some unworldy #. You don't think of someone being that quick and still having that kind of leg strength, especially after a knee injury. Just don't see how they can cut him early without seeing how he's doing this spring.

 

[RayClay]

Bruschi and Vrabel are much better than Bruschi and the one dimensional Johnson.

Klecko? The only role he filled was FB and he blew that too.

Backup Nose tackle? Sorry, this isn't the Big East.

ILB? Geez how many ILBs would we have to lose (Bruschi, Johnson,Phifer), before he got his shot?

Face it, he can't play linebacker.

Or anywhere else. Rebuttal?

 

[DaBruinz]

Bruschi and Vrabel are much better than Bruschi and the one dimensional Johnson.

Klecko? The only role he filled was FB and he blew that too.

Backup Nose tackle? Sorry, this isn't the Big East.

ILB? Geez how many ILBs would we have to lose (Bruschi, Johnson,Phifer), before he got his shot?

Face it, he can't play linebacker.

Or anywhere else. Rebuttal?

So, let me get this straight. You think that you've made a point because the Patriots didn't use Klecko at ILB this year? Umm.. You haven't made a point because you over-looked one GLARING thing. BB used Klecko as the back-up NT in TC after the Pats dumped Traylor. There was no other bonifide back-up until Wright proved he might be capable.

So, for you to say Klecko can't play linebacker is just silly because he hasn't really been given a chance. And its probably unlikely that he will be given that chance with the Patriots unless BB decides to keep him around for TC.

 

[RayClay]

I have no doubt that technique can be taught, I'm basing it on how the different DLs look as they engage the OLs on the line. Warren and Sey just look like they get their pads lower then Hill does when I watch them on tape. Flexibility and strength aren't monolithic standards for everyone, watching me touch my toes would demonstrate that in an instant!

Hill can't play the position he was best suited for, (DE). Seymour was injured much of the year. Time for the grave digger to put up or shut up.

And Nose isn't the position for the under motivated.

Guys who can play nose if Wilfork goes down: Warren, Seymour, Green, Wright.

Klecko??

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Bruschi and Vrabel are much better than Bruschi and the one dimensional Johnson.

Klecko? The only role he filled was FB and he blew that too.

Backup Nose tackle? Sorry, this isn't the Big East.

ILB? Geez how many ILBs would we have to lose (Bruschi, Johnson,Phifer), before he got his shot?

Face it, he can't play linebacker.

Or anywhere else. Rebuttal?

I have it from NEM's hair dresser that he was on the inactive list this fall while he slimmed down to play WR this year. :singing:

 

[DaBruinz]

I have it from NEM's hair dresser that he was on the inactive list this fall while he slimmed down to play WR this year. :singing:

Well, that's funny, cause I heard that he'd slimmed down so that he could be the new Kicker....:rocker:

 

[RayClay]

So, let me get this straight. You think that you've made a point because the Patriots didn't use Klecko at ILB this year? Umm.. You haven't made a point because you over-looked one GLARING thing. BB used Klecko as the back-up NT in TC after the Pats dumped Traylor. There was no other bonifide back-up until Wright proved he might be capable.

So, for you to say Klecko can't play linebacker is just silly because he hasn't really been given a chance. And its probably unlikely that he will be given that chance with the Patriots unless BB decides to keep him around for TC.

Well, by the same logic I might be the next ILB. They haven't given me a chance.

Klecko was told to lose weight and worked some at linebacker last year, (camp and practice). The Pats thought so much of his prospects, they told him to forget the weight loss and go back to working out at nose tackle.

Had Klecko showed promise at linebacker, they would have kept Traylor who was a decent and affordable backup.

They like Klecko so they tried to find a spot back at his original position.

He is immediately beaten out by a undrafted free agent, (Wright), they've got another candidate on the PS, (Santonio Thomas) and their talking about drafting another candidate.

Ashton and Hochstein have taken over as goal line blockers.

What's stopping the Pats from trying him at LB, (again)?

Lack of talent?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Hill can't play the position he was best suited for, (DE). Seymour was injured much of the year. Time for the grave digger to put up or shut up.

And Nose isn't the position for the under motivated.

Guys who can play nose if Wilfork goes down: Warren, Seymour, Green, Wright.

Klecko??

I think you mean Green, he studied mortuary science or whatever it's called. Hill isn't washed up yet, I see it as rather difficult to develop your skill sets playing behind Sey. Look at the year and a half it took big Vince to start to win out playing two gap ball, Ty took nearly as much time himself. Both of these guys were getting more reps behind Traylor and Hamilton respectively. Hill is unlikely to be the next Seymour, but I expect he could be a decent 3-4 DE given steadier playing time. And yes, Sey missed a few games, but Hill was on the injury report too if I recall correctly. Not that I've noticed you doing this, but some of our fellows on the forum are a little trigger happy when it comes to shooting our team's players in the foot. I'm all for noting poor play, but I'd like to think BB can get guys on track the way he did with Vince last season - though I'm still inclined to draft another DL to improve the competition seeing as its the offseason and all.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Well, that's funny, cause I heard that he'd slimmed down so that he could be the new Kicker....:rocker:

Ya gotta trump NEM's hair dresser if you expect me to fall for such an absurd tale!

 

[RayClay]

I think you mean Green, he studied mortuary science or whatever it's called. Hill isn't washed up yet, I see it as rather difficult to develop your skill sets playing behind Sey. Look at the year and a half it took big Vince to start to win out playing two gap ball, Ty took nearly as much time himself. Both of these guys were getting more reps behind Traylor and Hamilton respectively. Hill is unlikely to be the next Seymour, but I expect he could be a decent 3-4 DE given steadier playing time. And yes, Sey missed a few games, but Hill was on the injury report too if I recall correctly. Not that I've noticed you doing this, but some of our fellows on the forum are a little trigger happy when it comes to shooting our team's players in the foot. I'm all for noting poor play, but I'd like to think BB can get guys on track the way he did with Vince last season - though I'm still inclined to draft another DL to improve the competition seeing as its the offseason and all.

I'm pretty sure Hill had a job as a grave digger in his hometown. Ain't going to look it up, though.

Hill was a project and he has great measurables, but as Vermeil said, it's time to take off the diapers.

I'm not down on him, there's just so much time before any confidence goes.

I guess I'm continuing a point from another forum I post at, but I hate people slamming players who have been injured or haven't become all pros after 2-3 years.

Bethel is always a whipping boy and he hasn't been a total success, but despite injuries has played ST on both sides and been a decent backup speed receiver at times. He could very well go, but at least he's filled a role.

Hill and Klecko, unfortunately, are just taking up space.

I like Klecko and I know the coaches do, but the more roles they use him at, the less effective he is.

If you can't finf a role, you have to create one because the Pats have extra picks and they need to strengthen some positions. That means extras spots for guys competing for jobs.

Like they say in the NFL films, it means Not For Long:bricks:

 

[jczxohn1]

Bruschi and Vrabel are much better than Bruschi and the one dimensional Johnson.

Klecko? The only role he filled was FB and he blew that too.

Backup Nose tackle? Sorry, this isn't the Big East.

ILB? Geez how many ILBs would we have to lose (Bruschi, Johnson,Phifer), before he got his shot?

Face it, he can't play linebacker.

Or anywhere else. Rebuttal?

In case you missed it, Johnson and Phyfer weren't on the team last year. Klecko was IR'ed for most of their last year, missing the chance to understudy behind TJ.

While Vrabel filled TJ's role better than anyone else we tried last year and covers better than TJ did, he played more of a Phyfer,3rd down role than a pure run-stuffing role (which was the original point of this thread). He commented at one point that if he hadn't got extended, he would have had a problem with assuming the job. Finally, using Vrabel at ILB is underutilizing him. He will be Willie's replacement, regardless of who is drafted or picked up on waivers.

This thread wasn't started to lament the fact that Klecko can't find a role on this team. It was to point out that we don't have an ILB who busts OG's helmets and blows up FB's a yd behind the LOS. We may not find one. But we need to find one who "gets it" on 1st and 2nd down. Having to stunt to stop the run isn't a long-term solution.

 

[spacecrime]

I'm
Ain't going to look it up, though.

Of course not. Why would you ever bother to even wonder if there was any truth to what you are posting? Much more fun to yap away without a clue as to what you are talikng about.