Big Mac finally comes clean

[scout]

You mean, Carlton Fisk, who, after never having hit more than about 25 home runs, goes and hits 37 at age 37.

Yeah, I'm sure he was clean.

WOW! Where to begin.
Babe Ruth eating animal testicals to gain thier strength..........Please tell us more. Were they Elephants or Lions?
Roger Maris must have been on them.
From pretty much every hitter who played from 1960 to 2003
(on Maris) especially when several players on his team went down that year with weird infections (like Mantle).............
Carleton Fisk who had never hit more then 25 home runs goes and hits 37 at age 37.

Fisk: 1973-26 HR, 1977-26, 1983-26, 1985-37. If you look at Fisk's numbers, he's all over the board. He hit 18 home runs at age 43 and hit 22 hr's at age 24. Not saying that he didn't take something, just that you can not cherry pick his stats.
There are a lot of ML ball players who have taken substances, but to throw all of them under the bus is wrong and to go to the extreme that you have gone is insane. I met Gene Tenace one time, he played during that time period of 60 to 2003, I'd be amused to hear you tell him your assumptions.

 

[JoeSixPat]

WOW! Where to begin.
Babe Ruth eating animal testicals to gain thier strength..........Please tell us more. Were they Elephants or Lions?
Roger Maris must have been on them.
From pretty much every hitter who played from 1960 to 2003
(on Maris) especially when several players on his team went down that year with weird infections (like Mantle).............
Carleton Fisk who had never hit more then 25 home runs goes and hits 37 at age 37.

Fisk: 1973-26 HR, 1977-26, 1983-26, 1985-37. If you look at Fisk's numbers, he's all over the board. He hit 18 home runs at age 43 and hit 22 hr's at age 24. Not saying that he didn't take something, just that you can not cherry pick his stats.
There are a lot of ML ball players who have taken substances, but to throw all of them under the bus is wrong and to go to the extreme that you have gone is insane. I met Gene Tenace one time, he played during that time period of 60 to 2003, I'd be amused to hear you tell him your assumptions.

Tune in tomorrow when Synovia will lament that Ernie Banks didn't consult with him before decrying Sammy Sosa's steroid use. Mr. Cub calls for Sosa to address PEDs | MLB.com: News

Mr. Cub clearly has dementia if he can't comprehend Synovia's point that taking Steroids are no different than taking vitamins or breathing oxygen.

The highlight of Synovia's post will be the part where he accuses Banks himself of being in denial given his clear and established use of steroids (for which Synovia will have absolutely no evidence.)

You know - I really can't blame McGwire for using the "Performance Enhancing Drugs don't really Enhance Performance" argument when there's so many guys like Synovia out there who for some reason believe him.

 

[Real World]

Is someone in here trying to argue that steroids don't help players perform better?

 

[JoeSixPat]

Is someone in here trying to argue that steroids don't help players perform better?

You mean in addition to Mark McGwire?

Yep - believe it or not.

Steroids don't help you hit home runs at all. They contribute to your recovery to help you train more.

People have this misconception that steroids improve your performance on use. It's far from it. They help you recover faster to train more. The devil is still in putting in the hard yards... you simply put in more on steroids.

Little did I know that distance and power have nothing to do with hitting home runs.

 

[ausbacker]

You mean in addition to Mark McGwire?

Yep - believe it or not.

Little did I know that distance and power have nothing to do with hitting home runs.

You really are a simple person unable to grasp a theoretical concept aren't you.

In the interest of social experimentation, go take steroids, do no training whatsoever and see how that works out for you.

Daft fool.

 

[IcyPatriot]

 

[JoeSixPat]

You really are a simple person unable to grasp a theoretical concept aren't you.

In the interest of social experimentation, go take steroids, do no training whatsoever and see how that works out for you.

Daft fool.

Ummm - I think your social experimentation is completely missing the point.

Let me try to talk you through this apparently complicated concept.

An athlete who works out WITH steroids will be bigger and stronger and possibly faster (bat speed/arm speed/running speed) than had he NOT taken steroids.

You don't seem to grasp the fact that steroids allow one to ENHANCE THEIR PERFORMANCE through artificial means - hence this is why they are called PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS - and hence, why you're seeing many former major league players and others decrying the unfair advantage such PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS have.

That's the point.

The point is NOT your shocking relevation than any guy taken off the streets given steroids who does nothing else isn't going to beat Roger Maris' home run record.

 

[ausbacker]

Ummm - I think your social experimentation is completely missing the point.

Let me try to talk you through this apparently complicated concept.

An athlete who works out WITH steroids will be bigger and stronger and possibly faster (bat speed/arm speed/running speed) than had he NOT taken steroids.

You don't seem to grasp the fact that steroids allow one to ENHANCE THEIR PERFORMANCE through artificial means - hence this is why they are called PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS - and hence, why you're seeing many former major league players and others decrying the unfair advantage such PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS have.

That's the point.

The point is NOT your shocking relevation than any guy taken off the streets given steroids who does nothing else isn't going to beat Roger Maris' home run record.

They enhance your performance in conjunction with your training. Everything an athlete does is desired to enhance performance. You can't just expect to take steroids and them magically produce results. It just doesn't happen.

As for athletes, there's a casual affect, which you seem unable to grasp. Steroids help you recover faster. You train more. By recovering faster and training more you get stronger, more explosive, performance should increase etc. That's what you can't grasp.

You're a daft fool. There's no other way I can be civil with you.

 

[scout]

In baseball's statistical history books, an asterisk will be placed at the bottom of the page denoting the work out regimen during the steroid era.

 

[Synovia]

An athlete who works out WITH steroids will be bigger and stronger and possibly faster (bat speed/arm speed/running speed) than had he NOT taken steroids. .

No, he will not, unless he trains more than the athlete who did not take steroids.

 

[Synovia]

You don't seem to grasp the fact that steroids allow one to ENHANCE THEIR PERFORMANCE through artificial means - hence this is why they are called PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS - and hence, why you're seeing many former major league players and others decrying the unfair advantage such PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS have.

How is that different from Creatine? Or amphetimines?


I mean, we KNOW that Hank Aaron experimented with Amphetimines, and we KNOW they improve coordination in tired players. WHy is that any better?

 

[scout]

How is that different from Creatine? Or amphetimines?


I mean, we KNOW that Hank Aaron experimented with Amphetimines, and we KNOW they improve coordination in tired players. WHy is that any better?

Here is a question for you. Would Hank Aaron have hit more home runs had he taken steroids and excersised versus whatever he actually did?

 

[ausbacker]

Here is a question for you. Would Hank Aaron have hit more home runs had he taken steroids and excersised versus whatever he actually did?

Amphetamines are stimulants and can induce feelings of power and strength. They increase alertness and can decrease fatigue. Given 95% of sport is played mentally and baseball is roughly played for 3 hours and longer, the ability to concentrate for longer periods of time is almost certain to aide in performance.

It would be interesting to see the results of such a comparison but it won't happen. Doctors and scientists would argue it's highly unethical to subject people to studies.

 

[scout]

Amphetamines are stimulants and can induce feelings of power and strength. They increase alertness and can decrease fatigue. Given 95% of sport is played mentally and baseball is roughly played for 3 hours and longer, the ability to concentrate for longer periods of time is almost certain to aide in performance.

It would be interesting to see the results of such a comparison but it won't happen. Doctors and scientists would argue it's highly unethical to subject people to studies.

Hmmmmmmmmm. Instead of answering the question, you posed a comparison in which would never take place under any circumstances. What I gathered from that response, is that you could not decide if Aaron would have hit more home runs had he taken steroids versus drugs you assume he took over the course of his career. Thats fine, but the problem with that scenario is players careers changed drastically during the steroid era. A singles hitter becoming a power hitter, a home run hitter smashing records, and a skinny kid becoming the home run king.
Aaron on steroids.............Bonds would have never come close to catching him.

 

[JoeSixPat]

No, he will not, unless he trains more than the athlete who did not take steroids.

I'm reminded of the line in Shawshank Redemption where Andy asks the Warden "Are you obtuse?"

Of course guys who take steroids are training more than guys who don't.

THAT'S WHAT STEROIDS ALLOW YOU TO DO!!!!

The impact to the tissue as a result of a workout, weighlifiting etc is able to heal faster, allowing more intense and more workouts than without the PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUG.

C'mon! What is your major malfunction? (now I'm throwing a Full Metal Jacket quote out). Don't play stupid - you know how steroids work. This is why Sosa and McGwire and Bonds were able to get so much bigger on steroids than they were without them.

WHY DO YOU THINK THEY CALL THEM PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS???

 

[JoeSixPat]

They enhance your performance in conjunction with your training. Everything an athlete does is desired to enhance performance. You can't just expect to take steroids and them magically produce results. It just doesn't happen.

As for athletes, there's a casual affect, which you seem unable to grasp. Steroids help you recover faster. You train more. By recovering faster and training more you get stronger, more explosive, performance should increase etc. That's what you can't grasp.

You're a daft fool. There's no other way I can be civil with you.

My God - this is HILARIOUS.

You're actually under the impression that the vast majority of the baseball world doesn't understand this secret piece of information that you are privvy to - that you need to work out to see the benefit of steroids... and THIS is your foundation on which you base your argument that steroids are OK????

So it's only those poor souls like Carlton Fisk and Ernie Banks who are too stupid to know what you do who are all upset about the unfair advantage of Steroids? (Oh, I'm sorry - there is no unfair advantage from PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS).

 

[ausbacker]

Hmmmmmmmmm. Instead of answering the question, you posed a comparison in which would never take place under any circumstances. What I gathered from that response, is that you could not decide if Aaron would have hit more home runs had he taken steroids versus drugs you assume he took over the course of his career. Thats fine, but the problem with that scenario is players careers changed drastically during the steroid era. A singles hitter becoming a power hitter, a home run hitter smashing records, and a skinny kid becoming the home run king.
Aaron on steroids.............Bonds would have never come close to catching him.

The answer is I have no idea. You won't ever be allowed to do testing as such because of the medical ethics involved. All you can do is speculate.

 

[ausbacker]

My God - this is HILARIOUS.

You're actually under the impression that the vast majority of the baseball world doesn't understand this secret piece of information that you are privvy to - that you need to work out to see the benefit of steroids... and THIS is your foundation on which you base your argument that steroids are OK????

So it's only those poor souls like Carlton Fisk and Ernie Banks who are too stupid to know what you do who are all upset about the unfair advantage of Steroids? (Oh, I'm sorry - there is no unfair advantage from PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS).

So now you're actually changing your argument to the fact that you still do need to train, and in fact CAN TRAIN MORE to maximize the benefit of anabolic agent use? Don't worry that I said that in my very first post in this topic.

You really are a dimwit.

 

[JoeSixPat]

So now you're actually changing your argument to the fact that you still do need to train, and in fact CAN TRAIN MORE to maximize the benefit of anabolic agent use? Don't worry that I said that in my very first post in this topic.

You really are a dimwit.

Perhaps you can tell me where I changed my argument:

It's precisely because steroids help torn muscle tissue heal faster that guys can work out more and get bigger and more powerful.

And if you haven't noticed in baseball, balls hit with more power travel further - often becoming home runs.

Balls that aren't hit with more power don't tend to go quite as far, and are usually outs.

THAT'S WHY THEY TOOK STEROIDS!!!!! Of course it doesn't help them put the bat on the ball. As the kids say.. "Duh!" That's got nothing to do with this issue. Heck. Why do you think McGwire was crying when he called Roger Maris' widow to apologize if this didn't help him hit home runs?

(I guess people really are gullible enough to buy that excuse. They must be scratching their heads wondering what everyone is so upset about.)

You seem to be under the impression that everyone thinks steroids are some magical drug that instantly bulks someone up without lifting a finger.

You don't possess some "secret knowledge" that yes, you do have to work out to have the benefits.

Here's another factoid for you. You actually have to be ALIVE to see the benefits of taking steroids. If you inject steroids into a cadaver, they won't bulk up and win the home run record.

While I'm obviously being silly and sarcastic here, that point is about as relevant as the shocking revelation that you need to work out to receive the PERFORMANCE ENHANCING benefits of steroids.

Again - why do you think they call them performance enhancing drugs? Do you really think that Carlton Fisk, Ernie Banks, and thousands of players and officials in organized sports are "dimwits" who haven't figured out that you need to work out (and be alive) to see the PERFORMANCE ENHANCING BENEFITS of steroids?

Let the record show that McGwire's lame attempt to absolve himself is being bought hook line and sinker by at least a few MLB fans. Of course this raises the question - if McGwire himself believes what he says, why was he in tears when calling the family of Roger Maris who stuck by him during the years in which he denied steroid use?

 

[ausbacker]

Perhaps you can tell me where I changed my argument:



You seem to be under the impression that everyone thinks steroids are some magical drug that instantly bulks someone up without lifting a finger.

You don't possess some "secret knowledge" that yes, you do have to work out to have the benefits.

Here's another factoid for you. You actually have to be ALIVE to see the benefits of taking steroids. If you inject steroids into a cadaver, they won't bulk up and win the home run record.

While I'm obviously being silly and sarcastic here, that point is about as relevant as the shocking revelation that you need to work out to receive the PERFORMANCE ENHANCING benefits of steroids.

Again - why do you think they call them performance enhancing drugs? Do you really think that Carlton Fisk, Ernie Banks, and thousands of players and officials in organized sports are "dimwits" who haven't figured out that you need to work out (and be alive) to see the PERFORMANCE ENHANCING BENEFITS of steroids?

Let the record show that McGwire's lame attempt to absolve himself is being bought hook line and sinker by at least a few MLB fans. Of course this raises the question - if McGwire himself believes what he says, why was he in tears when calling the family of Roger Maris who stuck by him during the years in which he denied steroid use?

It's pointless trying to have a discussion with you are parading as someone who might have a small amount of knowledge pretending it's a big amount of knowledge. Whilst you have your sarcastic and condescending hat on, would you like to discuss the merits of anabolic agents in medicine? Probably not as it's as irrelevant as your silly point.

I's interesting that you did a very quick backtrack and failed to address the initial banning of anabolic agents in Olympic level sports around the world I raised with you. Perhaps if American sports were serious about stamping out drug abuse, then you'd adopt WADA standards across the board in all your sports.

Go back through the thread. You're repeating points I raised at the outset before you went Kanye West on everything.