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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by wistahpatsfan, Oct 21, 2007.

  1. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    “I think that in this day and age, if you don’t think you aren’t being watched by a camera you are being very naïve…”
    NYC Mayor Bloomberg

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2007/10/20/acosta.nyc.cameras.cnn?iref=videosearch

    In an effort to “keep up with the Jonses” in London, many US municipalities are installing surveillance cameras without any public input. The police are taking over and monitoring our every move. NYC is developing a “Ring of Iron” in Manhatten. This was reported on CNN today nonchalantly as if it were normal and acceptable. What do you think?
     
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bad development for freedom. I live in a small town and they have installed cameras at every intersection in the town. Totally unnecessary, too much money and nothing good to do with it.

    Meanwhile everybody's worried about wiretapping calls coming into the US from terrorist overseas.
     
  3. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    Sometimes we need to give up a few freedoms for security.
    With that being said, cameras constantly watching you is a bit to much. Ever see the movie Minority report? He couldn't go anywhere without being scanned :X
     
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who Cares the Muslim Bombers the Pedophiles and the Purse Snatchers are the ones who should be concerned about Camera's.

    Now that I know about it all I will do is stop playing with myself in front of City Hall.
    :bricks:
     
  5. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Yeah, I saw it. Funny how science fiction ends up being science fact, and the future looks less and less like the Jetsons, more and more like "1984".
    I'm against reliance surveillance. It makes us softer when we stop trying to do better intel on the ground level. A good crook can always get around the cops' toys. Only good cops with good instincts and judgement are going to help protect us.

    And we all need to be more engaged with each other like in the recent past, when neighbors were closer and looked out for each other. I think we're moving away from that and relying on the Nanny government to take care of us too much.
     
  6. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    The cameras at intersection is worth the cost and intrusion. People are running red lights in epidemic proportions. I mean it is ridiculous. I have a habit when I go through a yellow light (I actually stop on these given the timing) and look in the mirror to see how blatant other drivers are. I've pulled forward on green lights and have had people pass behind me while they run the red. These people are terrorists for all practical purposes.
     
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Your right, don't blame the camera's on the "Hated Bush Government" blame the people themselves for creating the need for Camera's.

    If we didn't have "Muslim Bombers" trying to kill us and if we didn't have "Scumbag American Criminal's" breaking our laws we wouldn't need Camera's.

    We have been locking our doors at night for years, is this violating anybodys "Civil Liberties".

    The ACLU vermin may not like it but human's have to protect themselves against "each other".
    :bricks:
     
  8. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I'm ok with cameras placed in the open. When you go into a department store dressing room, you have an expectation of privacy. At the intersection of Main and Washington, that expectation doesn't exist. I think any place that's likely to have human witnesses available from time to time is within bounds and highly useful since cameras aren't susceptible to human perception flaws.
     
  9. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    My wife recently got a ticket for running a red light caught on camera. I'm fighting it (as you can clearly see, she could not see the light tunr because of the tractor trailer in front of her). I heard that if you make a stink they dismiss it. What I don't like about this, and will bring up if they let me, is the fact that Timothy McViegh, and thousands of more infamous criminals have been caught as the result of a traffic stop. I don't think that these things make us safer, in fact I believe the converse to be true.

    I'll let you know how I do, I also wnodering once I establish that I was not driving (the car is registered to me), I really don't think they can legally make me incriminate my wife (or anyone else).

    It will be interesting.
     
  10. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    That's the problem with all types of heresay evidence that the police or RMV try to use in traffic cases. Every ticket I fight I win. This should be a slam-dunk for you, but I'd be very interested in how it works out. Trouble is, that the municipalities that use these tactics are doing it for revenue generation. Most people either don't care to or don't have the time to go to court to fight this tactic. Most people will mail in a check. That's how this bullsh-t gets a foothold. Then it becomes commonplace and no one notices the difference...no one that is, except the state treasurer's office.

    And I agree with you that it doesn't aid in law enforcement. Like I said, real crooks will work around these toys.
     
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They can tap my phone and put cameras on me, but they will be bored to death.. most americans don't do all that much, the problem is there is too much homeland security money lying around and if you write a grant you can get some cash for an outlandish security system even in east bumf..ck there is a tremendous amount of cash being spread around. OTOH there was a mexican with a highly contagious form of TB who entered this country 76 times last year.. you can get as sophisticated as you want, but seems as though they throw out the baby with the bathwater.
     
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You young folks will see many new things in your lifetime, times change, the innocent days of my youth are long gone but remember this, no matter how much the slobbering liberal tells you that people are all the same don't you believe it, there are good people and there are bad people, coddle the bad ones and you will be sorry they will turn on you like the snakes that they are.

    Iran doesn't have any camera's, they use "Rocks & A Rope" (stoning & hanging)

    I wonder what Iran would do to a school teacher that handed out Condoms and The Pill to little kids :singing:

    Why do the Wife Swapping Hollywood Liberals LOVE Chavez & Castro but they Hate Bush :confused:
     
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We are such a ridiculously paranoid society.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Iran is not a person. It is a state, and the people, like most people the world over, follow the laws of that state, right or wrong. The problem is not with the individual Iranians, it's with those who create the laws of the state. Just as there are people here who will blindly accept Big Brother, there were people here in another era who blindly accepted slavery, child labor, and the National Guard killing striking workers. People are the same, Harry Boy. It's government you have to figure out a way to control.
     
  15. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Harry, the "who cares about [someone else]" argument is dangerous turf. Since we don't know about the guilt or innocence of the millions being watched, we do not know very well what they are being watched for. Since we do not bother with determining guilt or innocence even after apprehending the suspect anymore in many cases, adding layers of erosion of freedom do indeed become threatening. You may be aware there are Muslims who are not bombers, for example. This fine point becomes problematic in the current context.

    I do not say, necessarily, that these cameras will be abused, but the potential for abuse is too obvious to ignore. And I do not say that every use of technology or surveillance is necessarily fascistic, but I do think we would do well to remember Pastor Niemoller's few powerful lines:

    First they came for the Communists,
    - but I was not a communist so I did not speak out.
    Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
    - but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
    Then they came for the Jews,
    - but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
    And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.

    It's funny how much we can all yammer about "freedom" but have nothing to say -- other than "Do it to the OTHER GUY! NOT ME!" -- when our freedom is threatened.

    PFnV
     
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    I love that quote. It is so powerful. The Golden Rule in action.
     
  17. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "By the way, it should be noted that the cameras were placed only to provide instant replay capability, and not as a means of advance scouting..."

    PFnV
     
  18. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bad People create the need for Camera's Just as Bad Greedy Cruel Money Mad Management Bastards created the need for Unions.

    People Whine About Camera's
    People Whine About Unions

    Bad People Created The Need For Both

    :bricks:
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2007
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Does figuring out how to control the government include giving it rights over over an 11 year old, that are above and beyond that of the kids actual parents? I know though, the government indoctrination of kids is fine so long as it agrees with the lunatic agenda. If the indoctrination included issues opposite of that platform, like maybe saying "under god" in the pledge, or saying Merry Christmas on, well, CHRISTmas, then there'd be hell to pay as that's clearly crossing the line. Oops, can I say hell in here, or does that insult someone's religious beliefs? :D
     
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Guess what, RW, you've been indoctrinated. Your family almost certainly played the major role in influencing you, but beyond that there's the media, friends and extended family, the schools, the churches, the stores, peers, colleagues, workplaces, and so on. Looking at that list, I don't think you can make the case and say that schools are any worse than any of the others. If you grew up in another country, you would have been indoctrinated differently. Don't for a moment think that you're truly independent. It's not how society works.
     

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