Better off getting a Safety in the draft or in FA??

[BritPat]

As for the question at hand - whilst we can all dream about Reed, we need a proper hitter. Goldson would be nice but I doubt he'll be available.

Draft, as always, is the way to go.

Elam, Cyprien, Swearinger.

 

[supafly]

In Chung's rookie year, he was doing well enough that people here were getting moist with anticipation of his future

When it came to Chung's play in the 2009 season I was still in need of some lubrication. Maybe not an all out dousing of KY Jelly, but at least some saliva mixed with heavy petting.

(To the mods) I'll stop now.....

 

[DW Toys]

Here's another thing- we need a true leader. Not just a really good player. A guy the secondary can rally around. I feel Ed Reed's that kind of guy. And if we do draft safety early in the draft, do any of these safeties show qualities of a true leader?? Like a Rodney Harrison type, who can set the tone at any time leader??

Have to agree with you Cousin.
I am not sold on Wilson. Gregory made more game changers than any DB but has flaws. McCourty played more plays than anyone but I can't give him higher than a C- for his year. Chung is like Ras-I. Potential but never healthy.

Talib came in. He was just O.K. but the DBs rallied around him. He made them better. It's a confidence thing. Reed changes the mentality of the whole DB corps.Talib and Reed would improve the whole DB group immensely.

I like Dennard nasty make up.But you still need that one veteran who brings poise and attitude. I say Reed but don't discount Goldston. BB thought enough of him to invite him here.

Delmas if he could stay healthy is like a smaller Harrison but what about William Moore?

I don't think McCourty has enough nasty. He is not great at anything nor bad at anything.

There is a guy we could get on the cheap who might have a year or two left. He is two years younger than Reed and two years ago was the best coverage safety in the NFL with 14 DPB. At 6'3" and 230 he had 3 sacks, blocked a FG and caused a fumble. He has been kicked out of the starting line-up by Wisenhunt for effect who himself got dumped. Does Andy keep him or will he clean house and Adrian Wilson becomes a CAP cut. He brings alot of what Reed brings. He also played one whole year with a torn bicep that no one knew about.
DW Toys

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Trade Wilson?

Really?

Thank the Lord you're not in any way shape or form even involved with the organisation.

thank the lord 95% of this forum isn't a GM

 

[supafly]

Have to agree with you Cousin.
I am not sold on Wilson. Gregory made more game changers than any DB but has flaws. McCourty played more plays than anyone but I can't give him higher than a C- for his year. Chung is like Ras-I. Potential but never healthy.

I can't reasonably agree with much out of this paragraph.

There is a guy we could get on the cheap who might have a year or two left. He is two years younger than Reed and two years ago was the best coverage safety in the NFL with 14 DPB. At 6'3" and 230 he had 3 sacks, blocked a FG and caused a fumble. He has been kicked out of the starting line-up by Wisenhunt for effect who himself got dumped. Does Andy keep him or will he clean house and Adrian Wilson becomes a CAP cut. He brings alot of what Reed brings. He also played one whole year with a torn bicep that no one knew about.
DW Toys

I know you've been a big fan of Wilson. The problem is that he just signed his new 4 yr deal last season and has 3 remaining years left. His base salary is 2.5 million with a cap hit of approx. 4.5 million, so he still offers them a lot of value at that price. We aren't talking about an 8-9 million dollar cap hit here.

Adrian Wilson Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

He may not be starting anymore (although that was during the last coaching regime) but still plays a lot and brings them a huge veteran presence.

I don't think that he'd be anything of a cap casualty myself, but they are in cap hell at the moment so anything is possible.

Wilson would certainly be an upgrade to what they currently have, but he'd be a 1-2 yr stopgap at best.

Not sure who "Andy" is, but Bruce Arians is now the head coach at Arizona.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I would just get one through draft unless someone comes cheap in FA and other teams don't over pay for that player

 

[Schmo]

Picking up Reed would be great for a season or two, getting that Rodney Harrison presence back in the secondary. Drafting another S is a good possibility as well, but we may be looking at cuts on the back end, meaning one or two out of Ebner, Chung, Wilson and Gregory. My guess would be Ebner and Chung if there is turnover, in which case I'd have to change my avatar.

As far as the draft, what about Phillip Thomas from Fresno State? He's all over the field (run and pass), led the nation in interceptions, and should go middle rounds. I think he would outplay every safety on the roster except for McCourty.

 

[Sciz]

As far as the draft, what about Phillip Thomas from Fresno State? He's all over the field (run and pass), led the nation in interceptions, and should go middle rounds. I think he would outplay every safety on the roster except for McCourty.

My expectation is that he won't be on the board for the Pats' second round pick.

 

[manxman2601]

As far as the draft, what about Phillip Thomas from Fresno State? He's all over the field (run and pass), led the nation in interceptions, and should go middle rounds. I think he would outplay every safety on the roster except for McCourty.

When I've seen him, he takes terrible angles in the running game. He flashes but doesn't overly impress me.

If we're looking for good value in the draft, Jonathan Cyprien, DJ Swearinger or John Boyett (Oregon safety who has been injured all year and probably available late rounds or even UDFA). And maybe Amerson if he falls into the 3rd.

 

[supafly]

Drafting another S is a good possibility as well, but we may be looking at cuts on the back end, meaning one or two out of Ebner, Chung, Wilson and Gregory. My guess would be Ebner and Chung if there is turnover, in which case I'd have to change my avatar.

Chung is a free agent, so he likely isn't coming back anyway. He almost surely won't be a part of our safety group next season. There was a point when I questioned whether or not they may offer him small money to be a backup earlier in this past season. That time has long passed, and Chung did not see much of any reps down the stretch of the season.

Wilson has only played one season, so we don't even really know all that much about him yet, besides the fact that he had an inconsistent rookie year and was a very high pick in April (2nd round). He's certainly not going anywhere.

Gregory should be here too at least as a rotational/depth guy. He'll probably be battling Wilson for the #3 spot, unless they were somehow able to upgrade things that significantly, or unless Belichick just didn't like much of what he saw last year. I'd have to guess that he'll be back at least for this season, as I think his cap hit goes up a bit for 2014, so he'd be more likely to be cut then.

So really it's at least Chung, with Ebner possibly being the next in line--even though he's probably pretty safe with his ST ability. He doesn't even really count that much in the safety corps since he hardly ever sees much time. I don't think that either one of Wilson or Gregory would be cut this year though.

 

[DW Toys]

I can't reasonably agree with much out of this paragraph.





I know you've been a big fan of Wilson. The problem is that he just signed his new 4 yr deal last season and has 3 remaining years left. His base salary is 2.5 million with a cap hit of approx. 4.5 million, so he still offers them a lot of value at that price. We aren't talking about an 8-9 million dollar cap hit here.

Adrian Wilson Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

He may not be starting anymore (although that was during the last coaching regime) but still plays a lot and brings them a huge veteran presence.

I don't think that he'd be anything of a cap casualty myself, but they are in cap hell at the moment so anything is possible.

Wilson would certainly be an upgrade to what they currently have, but he'd be a 1-2 yr stopgap at best.

Not sure who "Andy" is, but Bruce Arians is now the head coach at Arizona.

Thanks for the correction Arians.yes. My bad
They are saying there he will be a CAP casualty

"Adrian Wilson seems confident that he can find another home if cut by the Cardinals"

turning 33 in October with ample time remaining on his contract. Most likely, the Cardinals advanced some cash to Wilson in the form of a bonus, reduced his $6.5 million base salary for 2012 and lowered Wilson's current salary-cap charge,

He's gone in AZ Cousin.
DW Toys

 

[ausbacker]

thank the lord 95% of this forum isn't a GM

Most of the absurd positions we put forward on Patsfans as pie in the sky suggestions are debated at length.... in the office of the Jets GM.

 

[Sciz]

Wilson is almost surely getting cut, it seems, but why would the Pats want him? Yes, he's 230 pounds and can hit. He's also 33 and just got demoted out of the Cards' nickel coverage because he can't cover.

Do people really want an "enforcer" so badly that they're okay with him being terrible in coverage?

 

[Get it shawtaay]

Wilson is almost surely getting cut, it seems, but why would the Pats want him? Yes, he's 230 pounds and can hit. He's also 33 and just got demoted out of the Cards' nickel coverage because he can't cover.

Do people really want an "enforcer" so badly that they're okay with him being terrible in coverage?

The thing is, he knows how to cover but the legs aren't what they used to be. Perhaps Wilson could be used in a linebacker-style role? He's more of a LB than a S when it comes to taking on and getting off blocks, and even though he's slowed down he's plenty fast when compared to Spikes or Hightower.

I could see BB signing Wilson as a "big dime" back and only using him on 3rd downs, in addition to a nickelback who is more of a cover man. That is, unless our own Wilson progresses enough to assume that role.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Thanks for the correction Arians.yes. My bad
They are saying there he will be a CAP casualty

"Adrian Wilson seems confident that he can find another home if cut by the Cardinals"

turning 33 in October with ample time remaining on his contract. Most likely, the Cardinals advanced some cash to Wilson in the form of a bonus, reduced his $6.5 million base salary for 2012 and lowered Wilson's current salary-cap charge,

He's gone in AZ Cousin.
DW Toys

If the Cardinals cut Wilson, then I'd love for the Pats to pick him up, if it's short money and the understanding was that he would only be used in dime packages (and maybe a bit of nickle on short down and distance).

 

[supafly]

turning 33 in October with ample time remaining on his contract. Most likely, the Cardinals advanced some cash to Wilson in the form of a bonus, reduced his $6.5 million base salary for 2012 and lowered Wilson's current salary-cap charge,

He's gone in AZ Cousin.
DW Toys

Wilson just took a huge pay cut in the summer by signing an incentive laden 2 year extension on his then current 2 year deal to help the team save significant money. If they now turn around and cut him that'd be pretty ironic.

Here's a quote from Wilson showing his desire to stay in ARZ while doing anything he can to help the team financially:


"I'm not in it for the money; I have enough of that," Wilson said according to The Arizona Republic. "I just want to finish my career here and hopefully the young guys here now understand why I am doing it, and put them in a better situation down the road."

Anything is obviously possible, but if they just redid his pact last season in realization of his career winding down and that he'd have less playing time, I wonder what would change their minds now, just one year later?

He'd have been a cap casualty IF he didn't redo the deal last summer for sure.

 

[zipster9]

Most of the absurd positions we put forward on Patsfans as pie in the sky suggestions are debated at length.... in the office of the Jets GM.

I think a problem is that we don't have many draft picks, since we traded many away (Haynesworth, Ocho, Talib).

One of BillB's attributes, is to trade now, for future picks, and I think that will be true this year. So, #1 pick may be traded away. #2 possibly trade down as well.

Finding a "gem" of a Safety in higher rounds is tough. Be interesting what BillB's highest priority position need will be in the draft...

 

[Deus Irae]

I think a problem is that we don't have many draft picks, since we traded many away (Haynesworth, Ocho, Talib).

One of BillB's attributes, is to trade now, for future picks, and I think that will be true this year. So, #1 pick may be traded away. #2 possibly trade down as well.

Finding a "gem" of a Safety in higher rounds is tough. Be interesting what BillB's highest priority position need will be in the draft...

Why is that really a problem? Belichick is already conducting a draft without a draft, by grabbing CFL players. The team is already pretty much set at the starting positions, with only 3 spots that definitely need dealing with right away (Welker/WR, Talib/CB, Vollmer/RT). Key backup roles have players who are available and know the system (OL - Thomas, RB - Woodhead, WR - Edelman), they just re-signed Fletcher, who'll likely serve as the passing down replacement for Spikes when appropriate, and who'll also likely take up one of the special teams positions, they've still got picks in rounds 1, 2, 3 and 7, and the Patriots have been very successful at finding players in the UDFA ranks, post-draft. They've also got Demps, who is effectively another draft pick who had a medical 'redshirt' season.

Some will whine and moan, and some will panic, as the offseason progresses, but the reality is that this team is similar to the 2007 team, where the draft can supply the only real areas of need for a very deep team, as long as the normal business is taken care of first, and the team doesn't really need a full roster of draft picks. It only gets really dicey if the team doesn't bring back its starting WR and a CB1.

 

[supafly]

Some will whine and moan, and some will panic, as the offseason progresses, but the reality is that this team is similar to the 2007 team, where the draft can supply the only real areas of need for a very deep team, as long as the normal business is taken care of first, and the team doesn't really need a full roster of draft picks. It only gets really dicey if the team doesn't bring back its starting WR and a CB1.

I agree entirely. Belichick is effective more often than not in making up for certain aspects, and apparently he felt that it wasn't nearly the problem that some here see or else he wouldn't have risked another mid round pick by trading for Talib.

He has a decent enough cap situation for signing our own and making a few middle of the road moves in free agency (possibly even a higher level move for the secondary or WR), not to mention trading around in the draft.

IIRC there are still a total of 5 picks (two in the seventh) to move around and target different areas. We all know that those 5 picks can very easily be 6 without much difficulty, so even the apparent lack of picks shouldn't hamper them too much in terms of adding some more youth and talent.

As you mentioned, he's already attacked outside resources like the CFL for two more guys. We also have a handful of players coming back like Ballard, Demps, Dowling, Fletcher etc who will compete for depth and competition, not to mention the UDFAs and 90 man roster camp (or salary cap) casualties.

Considering the real fact that there aren't as many weaknesses or areas to improve as many would think, we are probably in better position than most years actually.

 

[IllegalContact]

I would say via free agency......the pats have plenty of youth with dennard,wilson,mccourty....bring back talib and get a solid S that works in this scheme....preferably one that can make a hit without shattering himself into a million little pieces