Best article from Reiss in quite a while

[emoney_33]

What I am trying to say about the 2007 draft was the players that the Patriots actually selected have not had any impact in the NFL. You cannot take away the fact that the Patriots picked 9 players in that draft and the only one that has had an impact in the NFL has been Merriweather. These 8 players that the Pats selected have had no impact at all. Why should the Pats staff get a free pass just because we traded for Moss and Welker?

4th round Kareem Brown: 1 game played in 3 years
5th round Clint Oldenburg: 2 games played in 3 years
6th round Justin Rogers: 32 games in 3 years, 24 tackles
6th round Mike Richardson: 17 games in 3 years, 13 tackles
6th round Justise Hairston: 0 games in 3 years, PS player
6th round Corey Hilliard: 5 games in 3 years
7th round Oscar Lua: 0 games, out of football now
7th round Mike Elgin: 0 games in 3 years, PS player

I am not saying that it was a bad draft as a whole because we greatly improved our team with Moss and Welker, but the players that we actually drafted have not been very good and the team does deserve some scruitiny for it.

You are arguing we should scrutinize the 4th-7th round picks in a poor draft of a season in which we had the best team ever? How many players from the 2007 draft 4th round or later made it in the NFL? I mean we know the low percentage of hits on 4th-7th rounders already, and 2007 wasn't a deep draft at all.

 

[mgteich]

The 6th and 7th rounders played 54 games in the last three years. I presume that you think that most team's 6th and 7th rounders did better. But the reality is that 6th and 7th rounders are long shots. Belichick has done extremely well with those picks in the past, so we have been very spolied. Also, teams with trerrible depth and poor cap management are forced to play 6tha nd 7th rounders because of money concerns, The patriots have not been in that position.
==================
2007
Early picks: EXCELLENT Meriweather, Welker
Midlevel picks: FINE Moss, Brown, Oldenberg
Late picks: BUST
==================
Criticize if you must, but I think the patriots made good use of their draft choices. And, of course, I would have hoped for better from the late round picks. Many here believe that we would have had one more regular contributer by now if we had kept and developed Rogers instead of keeping Alexander.

What I am trying to say about the 2007 draft was the players that the Patriots actually selected have not had any impact in the NFL. You cannot take away the fact that the Patriots picked 9 players in that draft and the only one that has had an impact in the NFL has been Merriweather. These 8 players that the Pats selected have had no impact at all. Why should the Pats staff get a free pass just because we traded for Moss and Welker?

4th round Kareem Brown: 1 game played in 3 years
5th round Clint Oldenburg: 2 games played in 3 years
6th round Justin Rogers: 32 games in 3 years, 24 tackles
6th round Mike Richardson: 17 games in 3 years, 13 tackles
6th round Justise Hairston: 0 games in 3 years, PS player
6th round Corey Hilliard: 5 games in 3 years
7th round Oscar Lua: 0 games, out of football now
7th round Mike Elgin: 0 games in 3 years, PS player

I am not saying that it was a bad draft as a whole because we greatly improved our team with Moss and Welker, but the players that we actually drafted have not been very good and the team does deserve some scruitiny for it.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

You are arguing we should scrutinize the 4th-7th round picks in a poor draft of a season in which we had the best team ever? How many players from the 2007 draft 4th round or later made it in the NFL? I mean we know the low percentage of hits on 4th-7th rounders already, and 2007 wasn't a deep draft at all.

it was deep enough that while the pats were drafting the likes of kareem brown, the rest of the league was picking up starters like bushrod(saints), beekman(bears), breaston (cardinals), session (colts), mcclain(ravens), boss (giants)

while the pats are drafting oldenburg, the chargers drafted nanee

while the pats are drafting oscar lua, the chargers are drafting brandon siler

there were plenty of targets

 

[tanked_as_usual]

The 6th and 7th rounders played 54 games in the last three years. I presume that you think that most team's 6th and 7th rounders did better. But the reality is that 6th and 7th rounders are long shots. Belichick has done extremely well with those picks in the past, so we have been very spolied. Also, teams with trerrible depth and poor cap management are forced to play 6tha nd 7th rounders because of money concerns, The patriots have not been in that position.
==================
2007
Early picks: EXCELLENT Meriweather, Welker
Midlevel picks: FINE Moss, Brown, Oldenberg
Late picks: BUST
==================
Criticize if you must, but I think the patriots made good use of their draft choices. And, of course, I would have hoped for better from the late round picks. Many here believe that we would have had one more regular contributer by now if we had kept and developed Rogers instead of keeping Alexander.

no......trading picks is not drafting........if the pats went with anquan boldin instead of bethel johnson and greg jennings instead of chad jackson (in both instances, many regarded the other player higher), the pats could have picked up a guy like stewart bradley for an LB instead of sending the pick to the dolphins for welker......and there would likely be another SB trophy sitting on the shelf from 2006

when you are spending resources to cover for poor drafting, then you're not filling other needs.

 

[emoney_33]

it was deep enough that while the pats were drafting the likes of kareem brown, the rest of the league was picking up starters like bushrod(saints), beekman(bears), breaston (cardinals), session (colts), mcclain(ravens), boss (giants)

while the pats are drafting oldenburg, the chargers drafted nanee

while the pats are drafting oscar lua, the chargers are drafting brandon siler

there were plenty of targets

Every single draft, and every single team, you can go back in hindsight and say "there were plenty of targets". You still just refuse to acknowledge that drafting in the late rounds is anything but an exact science. Were 31 teams absolute morons for not drafting Brady? NO, and if anyone thought it was likely for him to become so good he would have been drafter much earlier.

Play the hindsight game all you want, it just shows your unwillingness or inability to understand the entirety of the situation.

 

[HarkDawg]

OL Guard, Center, Tackle
DE
DL
ILB and OLB
WR

you will laugh. but what about a Punter?

we have so many needs it will take 2 great drafts to fix it all.


This Year and '11 are key.

 

[emoney_33]

no......trading picks is not drafting........if the pats went with anquan boldin instead of bethel johnson and greg jennings instead of chad jackson (in both instances, many regarded the other player higher), the pats could have picked up a guy like stewart bradley for an LB instead of sending the pick to the dolphins for welker......and there would likely be another SB trophy sitting on the shelf from 2006

when you are spending resources to cover for poor drafting, then you're not filling other needs.

Yep you can go back to each individual team's drafts and handpick better decisions in hindsight, it's a really easy game that takes 0 skill or analysis.

(You can also pick a handful of players that were NOT considered "higher" but yet became better players. So your "many regarded the other player higher" quip is still hindsight bull)

If you took a consensus rating of every draft and drafted the exact player that was the highest, you'd still end up with just as many misses and busts. Get some perspective.

 

[emoney_33]

you will laugh. but what about a Punter?

Who's laughing?

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Every single draft, and every single team, you can go back in hindsight and say "there were plenty of targets". You still just refuse to acknowledge that drafting in the late rounds is anything but an exact science. Were 31 teams absolute morons for not drafting Brady? NO, and if anyone thought it was likely for him to become so good he would have been drafter much earlier.

Play the hindsight game all you want, it just shows your unwillingness or inability to understand the entirety of the situation.

you give one single instance....but the fact is that teams count on late picks to produce a decent portion of their starting lineups....your failure to acknowledge this and understand that the pats have failed at this over the last 5 years only proves your total lack of understanding in the situation

teams generate starters on a regular basis.....its not just about one year......top teams have quite a few starters that are late picks.....the only one thepats have now is koppen

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Who's laughing?

I am .... punter is least of the pats problems right now

 

[emoney_33]

you give one single instance....but the fact is that teams count on late picks to produce a decent portion of their starting lineups....your failure to acknowledge this and understand that the pats have failed at this over the last 5 years only proves your total lack of understanding in the situation

Just because you can point to 1 or 2 teams who have been fortunate with late round picks RECENTLY doesn't mean that any team in their right mind rely on late picks. If these late picks were sure things they would be taken earlier. It's really really not difficult logic to understand.

As has been posted 25% of 4th rounders are starting after 4 years, 20% of 5th rounders and 10% of 6th+7th rounders.

teams generate starters on a regular basis.....its not just about one year......top teams have quite a few starters that are late picks.....the only one thepats have now is koppen

You talk a lot of nonsense but most teams do not frequently generate starters from the 4th-7th rounds, and there's a helluva lot more failures in those rounds than starters.

Your hindsight is amazing though

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Just because you can point to 1 or 2 teams who have been fortunate with late round picks RECENTLY doesn't mean that any team in their right mind rely on late picks. If these late picks were sure things they would be taken earlier. It's really really not difficult logic to understand.

As has been posted 25% of 4th rounders are starting after 4 years, 20% of 5th rounders and 10% of 6th+7th rounders.



You talk a lot of nonsense but most teams do not frequently generate starters from the 4th-7th rounds, and there's a helluva lot more failures in those rounds than starters.

Your hindsight is amazing though

boy....you are in denial......

fact is, most teams certainly do have quite a few starters from late picks....the pats haven't generated a single one in the last 5 years......the best late pick from the last 5 years right now is mike wright

when the pats at the top, a big part of that was the help they got from late picks.....koppen, givens, jarvis green, asante samuel, patrick pass, tom brady

you are simply making an incredibly stupid argument because you don't like me........suprised you didn't just ignore me, but that would take some backbone

 

[emoney_33]

boy....you are in denial......

fact is, most teams certainly do have quite a few starters from late picks....the pats haven't generated a single one in the last 5 years......the best late pick from the last 5 years right now is mike wright

Name all the 2007 picks from the Patriots 4th rounder on that are significant contributors. Then name all the draft picks from that point on that have done absolutely squat. And please especially list the ones that you just KNEW we should have drafted AT THE TIME (not with your awesome hindsight)

when the pats at the top, a big part of that was the help they got from late picks.....koppen, givens, jarvis green, asante samuel, patrick pass, tom brady

Yes it takes a whole lot of things going right to maintain success. Including getting lucky on some of the late rounders, using your picks as wisely as possible, veterans etc... None of the guys you listed above (except Brady) were a huge part of why we won in 03/04. They all were CONTRIBUTORS obviously, you need a lot of that to win titles in the NFL, but the major factor was the great front 7, which ya know was filled with 1st round talent and veterans.

you are simply making an incredibly stupid argument because you don't like me........suprised you didn't just ignore me, but that would take some backbone

It doesn't take backbone to ignore someone, that's pretty easy actually. But I'm not a child, I usually ignore trolls, not everyone I disagree with. I guess when you see a little kid put his fingers in his ears and scream that they are showing backbone?

Anyway, the bottom line is that late round draft picks are more of a crapshoot than an exact science. It takes a large portion of luck as well as a deep draft to constantly hit on late rounders (or a bad team with room to play mediocre players). I think we did pretty damn good last year's draft and am excited for the deep draft we have coming up. 2007 was a bad draft and we had a stacked team, hindsight is however 20/20.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

2008 was a good draft, too. If Wheatley and/or Crable can overcome injury, it will look even better. 2007 looks bad at first glance, because people ignore the position players were taken, and 2006 is unfairly maligned.

You've got to be kidding, right? 2008's draft was pathetic! Not only is the jury out on Mayo now, but Wheatley was a terrible pick and there's is no reason to believe he will prove us wrong. O'Connell was unnessesary and that turned out to be a wasted pick. Crable is a joke and I will be shocked if he makes the team this season.

the best late pick from the last 5 years right now is mike wright

Mike Wright went undrafted. But yes, I've agreed with your opinion on the matter.

Reiss's article is spot on but a year too late. I said this last off season and it went right over people's heads. Now that Reiss said it this year, he's a genius.

I'm willing to give their '09 draft some time, but I seem like I'm in the minority in thinking their draft was pretty bad considering how many picks they had and how high they were.

If the Pats want to win a championship now, and I mean as soon as soon as next year, they better sign some quality FA's and their own. I expect them to go after Peppers and maybe Dansby. But most importantly, the Pats need to draft really well this year. Considering most people are calling this draft one of the best in a long time, there's a lot of pressure on every team in the NFL.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Name all the 2007 picks from the Patriots 4th rounder on that are significant contributors. Then name all the draft picks from that point on that have done absolutely squat. And please especially list the ones that you just KNEW we should have drafted AT THE TIME (not with your awesome hindsight)



Yes it takes a whole lot of things going right to maintain success. Including getting lucky on some of the late rounders, using your picks as wisely as possible, veterans etc... None of the guys you listed above (except Brady) were a huge part of why we won in 03/04. They all were CONTRIBUTORS obviously, you need a lot of that to win titles in the NFL, but the major factor was the great front 7, which ya know was filled with 1st round talent and veterans.



It doesn't take backbone to ignore someone, that's pretty easy actually. But I'm not a child, I usually ignore trolls, not everyone I disagree with. I guess when you see a little kid put his fingers in his ears and scream that they are showing backbone?

Anyway, the bottom line is that late round draft picks are more of a crapshoot than an exact science. It takes a large portion of luck as well as a deep draft to constantly hit on late rounders (or a bad team with room to play mediocre players). I think we did pretty damn good last year's draft and am excited for the deep draft we have coming up. 2007 was a bad draft and we had a stacked team, hindsight is however 20/20.

yeah, you keep blabbing the same stupidity about hindsight.......feel free to refute, but over the last 5 year, the pats have gotten less productivity out of their day 2 picks than any other team in the NFL....you could probably throw 2nd rounders into that equation, also......

it is simple.....just put the pats starting lineup against any other team and compare how many day 2 picks are there

you have failed to make any valid points, but feel free to try again....withou your fingers in your ears or not

 

[emoney_33]

You've got to be kidding, right? 2008's draft was pathetic! Not only is the jury out on Mayo now, but Wheatley was a terrible pick and there's is no reason to believe he will prove us wrong. O'Connell was unnessesary and that turned out to be a wasted pick. Crable is a joke and I will be shocked if he makes the team this season.

Jury is out on Mayo? He's been starting for 2 years and had a knee injury this year.

Wheatley showed some real potential in his rookie season before injury derailed his path, and who knows where he's at at this point. Calling it a terrible pick just ignores uncontrollable factors like course-altering injuries.

Crable was a project that never worked out, but to be fair they did get Guyton undrafted.

They turned one of the 3rd rounders into a 2nd rounder in 2009, which so far looks to be a really good draft by the Patriots.

Not to mention the filthy piece of crap commish stole a 1st rounder from us in that draft!

 

[emoney_33]

yeah, you keep blabbing the same stupidity about hindsight.......feel free to refute, but over the last 5 year, the pats have gotten less productivity out of their day 2 picks than any other team in the NFL....you could probably throw 2nd rounders into that equation, also......

And yet the Patriots have been a top team in the NFL for the last 5 years, funny how that works. I'll just ignore your ridiculous statement of getting less than any other team in the NFL... And of course undrafted free agents get to skip your day-2 arguments.

it is simple.....just put the pats starting lineup against any other team and compare how many day 2 picks are there

Go ahead and do it then, hindsight master. 31 teams, so get to work.

you have failed to make any valid points, but feel free to try again....withou your fingers in your ears or not

You have failed to prove anything with your twisted logic and limited scope.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

You've got to be kidding, right? 2008's draft was pathetic! Not only is the jury out on Mayo now, but Wheatley was a terrible pick and there's is no reason to believe he will prove us wrong. O'Connell was unnessesary and that turned out to be a wasted pick. Crable is a joke and I will be shocked if he makes the team this season.


Mike Wright went undrafted. But yes, I've agreed with your opinion on the matter.

Reiss's article is spot on but a year too late. I said this last off season and it went right over people's heads. Now that Reiss said it this year, he's a genius.

I'm willing to give their '09 draft some time, but I seem like I'm in the minority in thinking their draft was pretty bad considering how many picks they had and how high they were.

If the Pats want to win a championship now, and I mean as soon as soon as next year, they better sign some quality FA's and their own. I expect them to go after Peppers and maybe Dansby. But most importantly, the Pats need to draft really well this year. Considering most people are calling this draft one of the best in a long time, there's a lot of pressure on every team in the NFL.

I agree about 2009......so far the prospects look good

I mean look at it this way....since 2004, the pats used a 2nd (hill), a 6th (smith), a 4th(brown).......none of them could hold a match to wright

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Jury is out on Mayo? He's been starting for 2 years and had a knee injury this year.

What I mean about the "jury being out on him" is what kind of a LB is he? He's obviously not a SILB as he was exposed thoughout the season. Maybe it was due to his injury or maybe he's better suited as a WILB. Merrill Hodge did a nice break down a few months ago on Mayo and how he reacts late to running plays and can get taken out pretty easily. He also pointed out how a lot of his tackles are 5+ yards downfield when the damage had already been done. The point is, Mayo is not a physcial LB and would be better suited as more of a roamer like Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis. I feel the Pats need to compliment him with a Bart Scott "Kamikaze" type LB that loves contact and will do the dirty work. The Pats had that when they won super bowls in Ted Johnson and Byran Cox.

Not to mention the filthy piece of crap commish stole a 1st rounder from us in that draft!

The Pats were warned multiple times to stop taping other teams, yet continued to do it. Even though it's a stupid rule and doesn't give teams that much of an advantage, it's a rule and the Pats chose to break it. Although I believe every team does it in one way or another, the NFL unfortunately caught the Pats first and needed to make an example out of somebody. Is it just me or I'm I the only one still pissed about not having that first round pick? I believe they would've used that pick to trade up for Mike Jenkins.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Jury is out on Mayo? He's been starting for 2 years and had a knee injury this year.

Wheatley showed some real potential in his rookie season before injury derailed his path, and who knows where he's at at this point. Calling it a terrible pick just ignores uncontrollable factors like course-altering injuries.

Crable was a project that never worked out, but to be fair they did get Guyton undrafted.

They turned one of the 3rd rounders into a 2nd rounder in 2009, which so far looks to be a really good draft by the Patriots.

Not to mention the filthy piece of crap commish stole a 1st rounder from us in that draft!

what did wheatley show? you must be confusing him with wilhite.....

as for mayo, given where he was drafted, and who the pats had remaining at LB on the roster, of course he was going to start (LMFAO) .... but he ain't no patrick willis, that's for sure......can't really credit anyone's expertise for drafting mayo......the need was obvious and it was a long way down to the next ILB