Bequette, Cunningham, Francis, Scott?

[supafly]

I disagree.

Brian Waters wasn't signed until at the end of the pre-season and was on the 53.

If guys at OLB/DE start to fall or it becomes clear that they are not good enough during TC, BB will bring in Carter.

I think it's just a major question as to whether or not Carter can even play football at this point, RW.

The news a few weeks/about a month or so ago surely wasn't very positive when he did the radio interview. He stated that he had to learn how to walk again etc.

I surely think that they were not going to limit themselves by waiting for him, and that they may have prepared themselves to move on awhile ago, but you're right--if Belichick feels as though he can contribute he'll play.

The comment about making the initial 53 man roster is aimed at my opinion that he will not be anywhere near football ready in the next few weeks, and that's why some have projected his return to come later in the season, if at all. We'll just have to wait and see though, anything can happen of course.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I would like to chime in on Trevor Scott. I have went back and watched a few raider games from 2011 and came away with a few things.

First of all I see alot a football besides just pats games and it is not often that i see a team as undisciplined as the raiders. Most teams that can't stop the run are usually undersized like the colts but the raiders are huge and they just get gashed like its nobody's business. LB consistently fill the wrong holes and just nonstop penalties on offense and defense.

Now back to Scott. He only plays on third down and obvious passing situations. He looks the part for sure but he doesnt actually make an impact at all. He seems capable of setting the edge but in the games i saw he just like the rest of the raiders were so out of control that teams now and then sneaked in some third down runs directly at him and would easily get the first down. Now when hes rushing the passer he seems very active and defenders don't really ever get a firm grasp on him but he is not quite fast enough to turn the corner and they seem able to handle his strength on a consistent basis. There was one thing that was very promising though. He ran stunts extremely well.

Based on what i saw i wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't make the squad. If he can play with some form of control he could be a very good run defender for us and that is pretty much it. Like i said, he is good at stunting but our defense almost never runs stunts so...

 

[Fencer]

Regarding Andre Carter:

• The Pats sure aren't going to spend a roster spot on him unless they think he'll be ready to play.
• He's not likely to ever make Mark Anderson money from this point in his career onward ...
• ... but even so, he may be hoping to make a few million dollars above vet minimum before he's completely done.

 

[supafly]

From Mike Reiss' comments this morning:

"Unless an injury thins the ranks, it's hard to see where free-agent defensive end Andre Carter would fit with the Patriots right now. Between Chandler Jones, Rob Ninkovich, Trevor Scott, Jermaine Cunningham, Jake Bequette and even high-motor rookie free-agent Justin Francis, the Patriots look pretty well-stocked at end. One thing to keep in mind: If Carter comes back, it probably cuts right into Chandler Jones' playing time. While Carter could be a terrific mentor to Jones, his presence might also block Jones' development."

Definitely doesn't sound too much like he is expecting Carter back. Like I said, it he did come back, it probably wouldn't be anytime soon.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think it's just a major question as to whether or not Carter can even play football at this point, RW.

The news a few weeks/about a month or so ago surely wasn't very positive when he did the radio interview. He stated that he had to learn how to walk again etc..

Yep. A month ago he said he was back working out, lifting weights, running on the beach, etc. With that said we still do not know if he is "NFL Ready".

I surely think that they were not going to limit themselves by waiting for him, and that they may have prepared themselves to move on awhile ago, but you're right--if Belichick feels as though he can contribute he'll play.

The comment about making the initial 53 man roster is aimed at my opinion that he will not be anywhere near football ready in the next few weeks, and that's why some have projected his return to come later in the season, if at all. We'll just have to wait and see though, anything can happen of course.

Ah. I think if Carter is given a clean bill of health and with his history of being committed to a high-level of physical fitness, it MIGHT take him a little less time to get in game-day shape.

Who knows though. If the OLBs/DEs do a great job of getting after the QB and playing good run defense, I'm not hung up on him needing to be in camp by any means.

 

[supafly]

Yep. A month ago he said he was back working out, lifting weights, running on the beach, etc. With that said we still do not know if he is "NFL Ready".



Ah. I think if Carter is given a clean bill of health and with his history of being committed to a high-level of physical fitness, it MIGHT take him a little less time to get in game-day shape.

Who knows though. If the OLBs/DEs do a great job of getting after the QB and playing good run defense, I'm not hung up on him needing to be in camp by any means.

All fair thoughts. It's certainly a guessing game at this point. The progress of the rookies may indeed make them a little less worried about it, but I'm sure that they'd still love to have him here. Of course, money is an issue too. It's definitely something that we'll all be keeping a close eye on. I do hope that he's able to return, that would defintiely be a good shot in the arm for the defense.

 

[mayoclinic]

From Mike Reiss' comments this morning:

"Unless an injury thins the ranks, it's hard to see where free-agent defensive end Andre Carter would fit with the Patriots right now. Between Chandler Jones, Rob Ninkovich, Trevor Scott, Jermaine Cunningham, Jake Bequette and even high-motor rookie free-agent Justin Francis, the Patriots look pretty well-stocked at end. One thing to keep in mind: If Carter comes back, it probably cuts right into Chandler Jones' playing time. While Carter could be a terrific mentor to Jones, his presence might also block Jones' development."

Definitely doesn't sound too much like he is expecting Carter back. Like I said, it he did come back, it probably wouldn't be anytime soon.

Yup. I was going to post this. I think that BB is seeing how things pan out in training camp. There's no need to rush to sign Carter - especially if he wants significant money - if the other players are progressing well. When it was the case of Jones being not more than a situational rusher, Cunningham being a bust and the other guys being green it made a certain amount of sense. But if Jones is really showing that he's ready to be a full time starter then it doesn't make sense, and especially not if there appears to be good depth and talent at the position. It's always an option later in camp or during the season (assuming no one signs him) if someone goes down or guys don't progress as expected.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

From Mike Reiss' comments this morning:

"Unless an injury thins the ranks, it's hard to see where free-agent defensive end Andre Carter would fit with the Patriots right now. Between Chandler Jones, Rob Ninkovich, Trevor Scott, Jermaine Cunningham, Jake Bequette and even high-motor rookie free-agent Justin Francis, the Patriots look pretty well-stocked at end. One thing to keep in mind: If Carter comes back, it probably cuts right into Chandler Jones' playing time. While Carter could be a terrific mentor to Jones, his presence might also block Jones' development."

Definitely doesn't sound too much like he is expecting Carter back. Like I said, it he did come back, it probably wouldn't be anytime soon.

I've done a 180 on wanting BB to Get Carter. He was a fav of mine last season. Given the relative youth movement that so far seems to be producing early on in camp and the seriousness of Carter's injury to a guy who is a speed rusher and his desire for a long contract at big market $, I think we pass. Only if we're devastated by the injury bug at the DE position should we consider adding him post opening day. Even then it may be moot if he hasn't seemingly recovered the power and quickness.

 

[crew1954]

So you don't think that Key is a Lock?

I think we will see by the dawn's early light. I pick him as a lock.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

I wonder who gets cut if Andre Carter comes back healthy.

The position is jammed with mediocre/unproven players right now.

 

[patriot lifer]

I would like to chime in on Trevor Scott. I have went back and watched a few raider games from 2011 and came away with a few things.

First of all I see alot a football besides just pats games and it is not often that i see a team as undisciplined as the raiders. Most teams that can't stop the run are usually undersized like the colts but the raiders are huge and they just get gashed like its nobody's business. LB consistently fill the wrong holes and just nonstop penalties on offense and defense.

Now back to Scott. He only plays on third down and obvious passing situations. He looks the part for sure but he doesnt actually make an impact at all. He seems capable of setting the edge but in the games i saw he just like the rest of the raiders were so out of control that teams now and then sneaked in some third down runs directly at him and would easily get the first down. Now when hes rushing the passer he seems very active and defenders don't really ever get a firm grasp on him but he is not quite fast enough to turn the corner and they seem able to handle his strength on a consistent basis. There was one thing that was very promising though. He ran stunts extremely well.

Based on what i saw i wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't make the squad. If he can play with some form of control he could be a very good run defender for us and that is pretty much it. Like i said, he is good at stunting but our defense almost never runs stunts so...

Good stuff. I looked at some Raiders' board immediate reactions to the signing. They described him as never really belonging to a traditional 4-3 defense. He mostly played DE, but even played a little outside linebacker, and that was a disaster. Their take was that he'd be a better fit in our style defense. Nevertheless, it's just a guess on their part. He's no super-athlete for sure, but who knows, he could be like Mark Anderson or Nink. Both guys were essentially nobodies before BB got his hands on them (granted Anderson had one good season in '06).

He is what he is. A low-risk, intriguing player. We don't need him to be an impactful starter, but if he can serve a purpose, then great. It's not like the Fanene acquisition, where we expect a return on our investment. We just have to cross our fingers that if he's no good, that someone else can fill the role.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No question, 3rd-round picks are traditionally locks. But I can't help but notice that none of you offered anything in support of Bequette beyond "he's a 3rd-round pick." By pick 90, the cap hit for cutting a rookie isn't much at all. IF it comes down to just 2 spots for those 4 players, I think it's possible.

$540K SB, so it'd cost them $400K in dead money in 2013 to cut him now.

 

[rookBoston]

I've done a 180 on wanting BB to Get Carter. He was a fav of mine last season. Given the relative youth movement that so far seems to be producing early on in camp and the seriousness of Carter's injury to a guy who is a speed rusher and his desire for a long contract at big market $, I think we pass. Only if we're devastated by the injury bug at the DE position should we consider adding him post opening day. Even then it may be moot if he hasn't seemingly recovered the power and quickness.

Funny, I've come 180 the other way. Knowing that Jones is scratching elite potential as a rookie, I want Carter more than ever. If Jones becomes the focus at RDE a few things will happen: teams will start scheming for him and he wont know how to adjust to what they're doing to him because it's stuff he's never seen before. I disagree with Reiss. If we want Jones to burst on the scene as a rookie, best thing would be to have Carter to give offensive coordinators something else to think about. Carter to have in Jones's ear in the classroom. Carter starting the game and then giving way after a series or two, to keep the media microscope off him. Carter spelling him mid-game to give him time on the sidelines with Pepper to work through what the OL is doing to control him.

When Jones was considered a 2-year project, Carter would have been a crutch for the Pats to lean on, a roster plug.

But, if Jones is a day one contributor, then Carter is luxury depth and mentor that we only need for a year, two max, just like Kevin Faulk has been for the young RBs. IMO, Carter puts Jones on a better and faster growth trajectory.

-------------

Regarding OP, I'm intrigued by the fact that BB is looking at Bequette at TE and FB and other spots on the team. It is a statement about his football IQ, athleticism and versatility. And we all know BB loves those kind of players. I think Jake makes the roster on the strength of his play in the kicking game, the possibility of his playing TE in a jumbo package a la Vrabel, and finally his upside at DE. I dont think a 3rd rounder with this kind of can-do attitude and head for the game is going to get cut in his rookie year.

I am thrilled to hear that Cunningham has put in a fantastic offseason... really his first true offseason since being drafted... and is booming. BB drafted him for a reason, and if that potential is sparking now, I dont think BB is going to give up on it now.

Francis is odd man out, for me. Bottom line, he's got PS eligibility and is the only guy of the four that has the remotest chance of clearing waivers.

Scott, I think will be cut. BB loves to give under-performing young veterans a fair shot, a clean sheet to prove themselves, including mediocre players who struggled recently and never turned the corner: Leigh Bodden, Mark Anderson, Bobby Carpenter... Mike Vrabel, for that matter. Thing is, eventually they need to show their stuff in practice, and so far as I can tell Carpenter has been the guy getting the kudos from the coach, not Scott. Looking at Raiders' film is useful in deciding whether to bring him into camp, but the camp film will decide whether he makes the roster or not. IMO, Francis makes the roster ahead of Scott.

So, my choice at DE would be Carter, Jones, Ninkovich, Cunningham and Bequette. Francis as a long shot to make it to the PS. Scott to play for Kansas City or Chicago.

 

[Deus Irae]

Last season, Andre Carter recorded 10 sacks in 14 games. Trevor Scott has recorded 13.5 sacks in 4 seasons.

I'm pretty sure that BB could find a way to make room for a healthy Carter.

 

[Marqui]

Last season, Andre Carter recorded 10 sacks in 14 games. Trevor Scott has recorded 13.5 sacks in 4 seasons.

I'm pretty sure that BB could find a way to make room for a healthy Carter.

Yea I don't get the "where are they going to fit Carter if he comes back healthy" questions. You fit him by cutting any one of the other DEs since he's significantly better than all of them, except Jones.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

His picks, DT Ervin Collier and C Joe Burch

He could have cut all his picks after round 1 ( Willie MCg) and no one would have noticed......

 

[Claremonster]

If Francis is clearly just a better football player with more potential than Bequette, then sure, maybe Bequette doesn't make it. But whatever talent the Patriots saw in him that made him worthy of being picked where he was, I doubt that's gone away. He'd have to have a pretty atrocious camp for the Patriots to recognize that he was a blown pick mere months after it was made.

How long was Cunningham here and provide nothing? I think Bequette should be given a little of a leash to figure sh!t out....

 

[Claremonster]

Last season, Andre Carter recorded 10 sacks in 14 games. Trevor Scott has recorded 13.5 sacks in 4 seasons.

I'm pretty sure that BB could find a way to make room for a healthy Carter.

I was a fan of him last year...he could be a quality mentor and provide depth under Chandler Jones.

 

[Claremonster]

Regarding Andre Carter:

• The Pats sure aren't going to spend a roster spot on him unless they think he'll be ready to play.
• He's not likely to ever make Mark Anderson money from this point in his career onward ...
• ... but even so, he may be hoping to make a few million dollars above vet minimum before he's completely done.

Can you blame him for doing this?

If he wants a decent chance at a ring, he does the minimum.

If he wants more money, the Pats won't give it to him.

Simple as that.

 

[supafly]

I wonder who gets cut if Andre Carter comes back healthy.

The position is jammed with mediocre/unproven players right now.

I don't think that would be much of an issue to worry about.