Bengals: Mulling switch to 3-4 if draft falls right

[Box_O_Rocks]

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5214

For the first time Tuesday, Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis confirmed he’s waiting for this weekend to unfold before deciding to stay with the 4-3 base defense or changing to a 3-4.
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Lewis wouldn’t be specific about what would make him go through with the switch, but there are two first-round 3-4 defensive ends that would make the switch palatable. Yet, there’s a good chance that two teams who have already committed to the 3-4, the Browns, at No. 12, and the Patriots, at No. 21, covet North Carolina State’s Manny Lawson and Florida State’s Kamerion Wimbley before the Bengals pick at No. 24, and that could very well stymie the switch.

The Bengals already have a 3-4 player in David Pollack, their first pick in last year’s draft.
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Lawson is certainly a popular guy. In an interview with KFFL.com on Tuesday, Lawson said he not only had a pre-draft visit with the Bengals, but also the Browns, Steelers, Buccaneers, Jets, Patriots and Colts. Four of those teams are picking ahead of Cincinnati.
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Each 3-4 defense is different. Pittsburgh, where Lewis cut his teeth on the 3-4 in the previous decade, runs it differently than New England, which runs it differently than Dallas.

In their heyday, the Patriots drafted a bunch of tweeners and asked them to do very specific things designed on their strengths. That’s why Jones suggests that players drafted out of the glare of the first round could also have an impact on Lewis’ decision
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Without mentioning Bengals wide receiver Chris Henry by name, Lewis said such character issues have been “red-flagged†even more this year.

“Guys who have issues with coaching or teammates and things like that, it’s something that’s going to be a little bit more of a red flag to me,†Lewis said. “We’re going to continue to pay big attention to character and red flag things like that.â€

Before the Bengals took Henry in the third round last April, they checked out similar questions about his sometimes volatile career at West Virginia. Henry ended up leading all rookie wide receivers with six touchdown catches, but he was also arrested twice in a 45-day span late last season and faces a May 30 trial in Florida in which he is charged with a felony gun count.

 

[jczxohn1]

More evidence of the impact of the Patriots success on the league.

 

[SamBamsFan]

In their heyday, the Patriots drafted a bunch of tweeners and asked them to do very specific things designed on their strengths. That’s why Jones suggests that players drafted out of the glare of the first round could also have an impact on Lewis’ decision

Not to pick, but the bold above suggest that our "heyday" is over.

 

[Mike the Brit]

In their heyday, the Patriots drafted a bunch of tweeners and asked them to do very specific things designed on their strengths. That’s why Jones suggests that players drafted out of the glare of the first round could also have an impact on Lewis’ decision

Not to pick, but the bold above suggest that our "heyday" is over.

Absolutely! You got there before me, but that phrase leapt out at me too as I read.

But one thing is obvious: the days when the Patriots could take advantage of the fact that they were looking for different qualities from other teams are now gone.

 

[spacecrime]

In their heyday, the Patriots drafted a bunch of tweeners and asked them to do very specific things designed on their strengths. That’s why Jones suggests that players drafted out of the glare of the first round could also have an impact on Lewis’ decision

Not to pick, but the bold above suggest that our "heyday" is over.

Ha ha. I had already copied the first sentence and was about to hit reply to paste it when I saw your comment. I looked forward to reading, "After everyone had written the Patriots' dysnasty off as dead and gone, here they are superbowl champs again."

 

[dhamz]

Let's ignore the "heyday" part and implying we are done for a second. Even without that the statement is just wrong.

Who are these tweeners we have drafted? Willie? Tedy? Ted Johnson? Those are the last 3 LBs we've drafted who have played a significant role in our defense - all a decade ago, all 2 front office/coach combos ago. Unless they are thinking our heyday was the Parcells era.

 

[stinkypete]

I see how, with Pollack and Thurman, the Bengals would have an excellent group of 3-4 linebackers with the addition of a edge rushing rookie. My question is: who's going to play the nose?

 

[marty]

But one thing is obvious: the days when the Patriots could take advantage of the fact that they were looking for different qualities from other teams are now gone.

I agree, but only to a certain point. I still think we've got an edge with our outstanding scouting system. You can know the qualities to look for, but you have to have the ability and resources/networking to apply it. Reportedly the communication between BB-Pioli-scouts is one of the best in the NFL. We've been mined a bit these past few years and lost a few scouting people but luckly not too much.(knock on wood)
Tho' I'm not happy about why we have a longer off season, I'll admit to being very excited about this draft and the additional time we've had to prep for it. Should be fun!

 

[the taildragger]

prediction: they won't do it

why would Lewis wait til after FA to make this decision?

More rumors before the draft to chum up the water.

He has no choice but to stick with the 4-3 this year and probably target a big tackle in the draft who can play inside in either scheme, and help make the transition next year if they decide to take the plunge.

While it is indeed a copycat league, we're talking about an extremely painful migration procedure that most teams are too myopic (and debt-laden) to go ahead with.

There were rumors last year of a Denver 3-4 at the peak of Patsmania, and after Denver was again shredded by Indy's arena league offense, but they weighed their options and instead sunk further into the 4-3 quicksand...while trying to beef up their secondary -- IMO, you beat the Colts on the front-end, not the back-end...you can't play them in space and hope to pop their receivers without also applying pressure up front on little boy blue and neutralizing their zone blocking.

Lewis would be the first guy to actually CHANGE his philosophy.

The Herald had a panic piece on this the other day. For years the Steelers had a free ride in the draft with 3-4 guys. The copycat fears are WAY overblown -- for one, there isn't a sufficient supply from the college ranks -- the personnel constraints create MAJOR growing pains for teams interested in the conversion -- we're talking about multiple seasons in the abyss -- that's just too much for most coaches/owners to stomach.

it's all relative -- there are still a lot more fish in the 4-3 pond out there. We should still count ourselves lucky to be set with a young and dominant front-3 foundation which is the scarcest piece of all.

While we'd be better off if the Jets and Browns weren't jumping on the bandwagon, I only see a reason to panic if we continue to lose DCs at a rate of one per year.

Once again Felger is seeing smoke where there is no fire (and he knows it too).

 

[DaBruinz]

I see how, with Pollack and Thurman, the Bengals would have an excellent group of 3-4 linebackers with the addition of a edge rushing rookie. My question is: who's going to play the nose?

My guess would be Shaun Smith, a 6'2"-320 lb DT that is currently on the Bengals. He was a rookie last year. I don't think that Bryan Robinson could do it. He's better suited for the DE position. So is John Thornton.

The Bengals running a 3-4 would be very interesting. Having Justin Smith on one end. David Pollack on the other. Odell Thurman as an under-sized ILB. They could have Hannibal Navies line up as the other ILB.

After reviewing their roster, I don't think that the Bengals have the personnel to consider running a 3-4. But, stranger things have happened.

 

[jimmyjames]

Let's ignore the "heyday" part and implying we are done for a second. Even without that the statement is just wrong.

Who are these tweeners we have drafted? Willie? Tedy? Ted Johnson? Those are the last 3 LBs we've drafted who have played a significant role in our defense - all a decade ago, all 2 front office/coach combos ago. Unless they are thinking our heyday was the Parcells era.

TBC was a DE in college and didn't Vrabel come to us from Pittsburgh as D lineman (I know he played it in college)

 

[DaBruinz]

TBC was a DE in college and didn't Vrabel come to us from Pittsburgh as D lineman (I know he played it in college)

TBC isn't a starter. And Vrabel wasn't drafted by the Pats.

 

[AzPatsFan]

So what?

TBC isn't a starter. And Vrabel wasn't drafted by the Pats.

I got news for you. In this day and age, there are other ways to acquire football players than just the draft.

Vrabel and Colvin were examples of signing young FAs.

Just because BB usually uses FA, to sign old pro ex-starter vets looking for another year or two and maybe a ring, doesn't mean its the only way. Sure Phifer, Cox, Pleasant, Hamilton, Washington route is the one they more usually walk, that's because you are confusing "Patching" with "Building".

You need to do both. Or you can wait a few years while you lose and wait for the draft choices to allocate to those areas....

 

[DaBruinz]

I got news for you. In this day and age, there are other ways to acquire football players than just the draft.

Vrabel and Colvin were examples of signing young FAs.

Just because BB usually uses FA, to sign old pro ex-starter vets looking for another year or two and maybe a ring, doesn't mean its the only way. Sure Phifer, Cox, Pleasant, Hamilton, Washington route is the one they more usually walk, that's because you are confusing "Patching" with "Building".

You need to do both. Or you can wait a few years while you lose and wait for the draft choices to allocate to those areas....

AZ - No offense, but can you tell me something that I don't already know?

My response was in response to JimmyJames pointing out to Dhamz about TBC and Vrabel as possible exceptions. Unfortunately, they aren't applicable since TBC isn't a starter and Vrabel came to the Pats as a DE from Pittsburgh.

They don't fit into the scenario that was originally talked about.