Ben Watson

[IcyPatriot]

I don't see why we spend money on a pass catching TE if we barely throw to him. I'd rather have a big blocking OT that can double as a TE and spend the difference on a better DE or OLB.

 

[mgteich]

We've already made that choice. We use OT's as our third TE, saving a roster spot.

I don't see why we spend money on a pass catching TE if we barely throw to him. I'd rather have a big blocking OT that can double as a TE and spend the difference on a better DE or OLB.

 

[Patjew]

To all of you talking about all of Watson's drops and his terrible hands, could you remind me of some from 2009, because I really can't remember any. Unless of course you're talking about the poorly thrown ball in the WC game that almost got Watson destroyed.

 

[Nikolai]

To all of you talking about all of Watson's drops and his terrible hands, could you remind me of some from 2009, because I really can't remember any. Unless of course you're talking about the poorly thrown ball in the WC game that almost got Watson destroyed.

Indeed. How is that on Watson?

Unfortunately, I think it's a moot point. I give it a 30% chance he's back next year.

 

[woolster22]

To all of you talking about all of Watson's drops and his terrible hands, could you remind me of some from 2009, because I really can't remember any. Unless of course you're talking about the poorly thrown ball in the WC game that almost got Watson destroyed.

At least three between the opener with buff and the home miami games i went too. also remember screaming at the tv over this mult games this year Dude has NO HANDS. Maybe the picture was skewed over there in China

 

[italian pat patriot]

I'll never forget that play he made in the Playoff game at Denver. Champ Bailey had no idea what hit him. Should have been a fumble through the endzone (and a touchback).

I hope he comes back, still don't know why we didn't use the TE in the passing game more this year especially as we had no reliable 3rd WR option.

that was one of the greatest plays ever and always in my mind

i hope too he will be back and i would like to see him more involved in the passing game

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

It would help if Tommy threw the ball to him more. For those saying that he has bad hands.... did you not see him make some really good catches this year? Hell, look at game 1. That game was lost until he made 2 good catches in a row. Drops happen for everyone. WW, and WW2 both have had drops, but i don't see anyone crabbing about them.

People only remember the bad about players( and coaches) on this board. Some of you seriously need glasses, and some common sense

 

[Deus Irae]

At least three between the opener with buff and the home miami games i went too. also remember screaming at the tv over this mult games this year Dude has NO HANDS. Maybe the picture was skewed over there in China

Interesting theory. Of course, people have been citing to PFF here ever since the end of the season, so I thought I'd take a look there for the stats on Watson:

Thrown at: 44
Catches: 30
% Caught: 68.2
Drops: 4
Y/C: 13.6
Fum: 0
INT: 1

ProFootballFocus.com - By Player

That puts him at 30th in times thrown at, 23rd in % caught, 3rd in Y/C for tight ends, and 17th in dropped passes (the site had an error which actually listed him at 23rd).

He may not be the best tight end in the game, but those numbers and percentages, in the aggregate, are certainly not showing a terrible receiving tight end. I won't use their formula data, because it's pretty clear that at least some of their formulas are an absolute joke. For that, I'll refer to Football Outsiders (They have his catch rate at 71%, FYI):

DYAR Rank: 9
DVOA Rank: 1

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | TIGHT ENDS 2009

That's pretty solid ranking for a player as maligned as Watson is around here. His receiving game is actually pretty solid.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Interesting theory. Of course, people have been citing to PFF here ever since the end of the season, so I thought I'd take a look there for the stats on Watson:

Thrown at: 44
Catches: 30
% Caught: 68.2
Drops: 4
Y/C: 13.6
Fum: 0
INT: 1
.

Nice to see someone using facts

 

[Patjew]

Interesting stats^.

I don't think Watson is the best TE in the game, but I think he's more-than-serviceable, he can make game-changing plays, and he seems to be a good guy/patriot.

His weaknesses are not nearly as weak as his maligners would lead one to believe, IMO.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Interesting stats^.

I don't think Watson is the best TE in the game, but I think he's more-than-serviceable, he can make game-changing plays, and he seems to be a good guy/patriot.

His weaknesses are not nearly as weak as his maligners would lead one to believe, IMO.

Agreed. He's no Adam Seward, but he's good enough

 

[Patjew]

Agreed. He's no Adam Seward, but he's good enough

Well Jeez, who is? Even Adam Seward isn't Adam Seward!

 

[Deus Irae]

Well Jeez, who is? Even Adam Seward isn't Adam Seward!

That, my good man, is what Adam Seward wants you to believe....

 

[woolster22]

Interesting theory. Of course, people have been citing to PFF here ever since the end of the season, so I thought I'd take a look there for the stats on Watson:

Thrown at: 44
Catches: 30
% Caught: 68.2
Drops: 4
Y/C: 13.6
Fum: 0
INT: 1

ProFootballFocus.com - By Player

That puts him at 30th in times thrown at, 23rd in % caught, 3rd in Y/C for tight ends, and 17th in dropped passes (the site had an error which actually listed him at 23rd).

He may not be the best tight end in the game, but those numbers and percentages, in the aggregate, are certainly not showing a terrible receiving tight end. I won't use their formula data, because it's pretty clear that at least some of their formulas are an absolute joke. For that, I'll refer to Football Outsiders (They have his catch rate at 71%, FYI):

DYAR Rank: 9
DVOA Rank: 1

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | TIGHT ENDS 2009

That's pretty solid ranking for a player as maligned as Watson is around here. His receiving game is actually pretty solid.

Guess they only go with drops a-la the "Caldwell I'm wide open oops" type... i'm talking eye test, maybe written down as a "pass defended-your making millions to catch the damn ball" type drop. I remember two vividly from the opener, one of those being on third down when I turned to my old man an he beat me to the punch, "stone hands drops another clutch ball." wouldn't mind seeing his sub-merriweather caliber hands being employed elsewhere. he will be chasing a paycheck, and there is no way in hell we should be paying for those stone sculptures to "grace" us with their presence. Good luck selling the house pal
EDIT:
Whats that BB quote i keep seeing here, something to the effect of "stats are for losers"? The guy fails the eye test. sure he's fast, sure he's athletic, but that does not justify the signing of a 7th year tight end. his separation is meager at best, unless running a vert route like the buff game. From watching the guy at games (loved him early on, been changing since yr 2 for cut his stone ass), he doesnt get much seperation on many of the short/intermediate routes. For a guy with his athleticism, he should be one of the 1st reads every play he releases. Clearly, he is not. What he have, 400 some odd yards recieving? i'm willing to bet 65-75 of that was in the opener...so where'd he go?

 

[ramon]

There is a reason why he has not been thrown to that much.
When it comes right down to it...I do not think TB has a great deal of confidence in him.

Not sure he is a great blocker.

I think its time to let him go and let him have a chance elsewhere.
I believe that for whatever reason...he is underutilized here.

 

[captain stone]

Unless of course you're talking about the poorly thrown ball in the WC game that almost got Watson destroyed.

And this is where Bill has done Ben a disservice. Instead of getting him the ball earlier in his route so that he can turn upfield & toward the Safeties with momentum, thereby becoming the attacker instead of the attacked, Brady has waited until Watson has run deep, down the seam, and into the teeth of the Safeties. Watson, the Safeties, and the football all meet at the same place at the same time. Guess who wins that confrontation? Not Watson, not Mark Bavaro, not any TE, not any human being. Yet Bill has continuously called these deep seam routes for Watson, as if the Safeties wouldn't be circling like sharks. I've never understood why this has become Watson's signature route instead of the potentially more successful - and less hazardous - slants, sits & crosses. And 2 of those routes would still take advantage of his superior speed.

To think that in 2006, we had Grahambo, Watson & David Thomas. We are now one step away from having none of them. And even after Grahambo left, we could've had Ben Patrick (starting TE for Arizona) in the 2007 draft with any of the picks used instead on Mike Richardson, Justice Hairston, Corey Hilliard & Oscar Lua. Un-effin-believable.

 

[Jimke]

And this is where Bill has done Ben a disservice. Instead of getting him the ball earlier in his route so that he can turn upfield & toward the Safeties with momentum, thereby becoming the attacker instead of the attacked, Brady has waited until Watson has run deep, down the seam, and into the teeth of the Safeties. Watson, the Safeties, and the football all meet at the same place at the same time. Guess who wins that confrontation? Not Watson, not Mark Bavaro, not any TE, not any human being. Yet Bill has continuously called these deep seam routes for Watson, as if the Safeties wouldn't be circling like sharks. I've never understood why this has become Watson's signature route instead of the potentially more successful - and less hazardous - slants, sits & crosses. And 2 of those routes would still take advantage of his superior speed.

To think that in 2006, we had Grahambo, Watson & David Thomas. We are now one step away from having none of them. And even after Grahambo left, we could've had Ben Patrick (starting TE for Arizona) in the 2007 draft with any of the picks used instead on Mike Richardson, Justice Hairston, Corey Hilliard & Oscar Lua. Un-effin-believable.

Don't criticize the 2007 draft. Pioli had to go to the bathroom when
the late round picks were made and his secretary made the picks.

 

[Deus Irae]

Guess they only go with drops a-la the "Caldwell I'm wide open oops" type... i'm talking eye test, maybe written down as a "pass defended-your making millions to catch the damn ball" type drop. I remember two vividly from the opener, one of those being on third down when I turned to my old man an he beat me to the punch, "stone hands drops another clutch ball." wouldn't mind seeing his sub-merriweather caliber hands being employed elsewhere. he will be chasing a paycheck, and there is no way in hell we should be paying for those stone sculptures to "grace" us with their presence. Good luck selling the house pal
EDIT:
Whats that BB quote i keep seeing here, something to the effect of "stats are for losers"? The guy fails the eye test. sure he's fast, sure he's athletic, but that does not justify the signing of a 7th year tight end. his separation is meager at best, unless running a vert route like the buff game. From watching the guy at games (loved him early on, been changing since yr 2 for cut his stone ass), he doesnt get much seperation on many of the short/intermediate routes. For a guy with his athleticism, he should be one of the 1st reads every play he releases. Clearly, he is not. What he have, 400 some odd yards recieving? i'm willing to bet 65-75 of that was in the opener...so where'd he go?

Yes, if you ignore the reality of what actually happened on the field and substitute your biased opinion instead, you can come up with an argument to support your position. It's amazing how that happens. Of course, if you look at the reality of what actually happened on the field this season, you're just wrong.

And the "stats are for losers" is misused on this board the way "judge not...." is misused in the general populace. Belichick is one of the most avid users of statistical data you'll find anywhere.

 

[Badluck]

i love him here and i hope he stays but if hes smart and just looking to be named as one of the top pass catching threats at his position i would go somewhere else that would take advantage of his abilities

 

[captain stone]

Don't criticize the 2007 draft. Pioli had to go to the bathroom when
the late round picks were made and his secretary made the picks.

Well, that was one heckuva dump.