Ben-Jarvis Green-Ellis

[woolster22]

Really guys? Did you all forget about the inevitable dancing in the backfield that ends up a 3 yard loss? How often do you see that out of BJGE? He consistently takes what is available, and consistently falls forward for an extra yard or two after contact. He isn't going to be a homerun threat, but he does have the ability to pick up good chunks. If you guys really need someone to whine about on the offense, Matt Light has been playing pretty poorly this year...

 

[Rob0729]

Those rankings are cumulative, not average which is not fair because BJGE is 20th in attempts.

6 TDs is tied for 3rd and 4.2 YPC: how is that below average?

Ok, BJGE is a stud. Granted if he was drafted in the first round, he would be a bum. You can't count on the guy week in and week out and Danny Woodhead has been a better, more consitent RB over the last month. But can you really think of another RB you would rather have over BJGE.

Again, if Maroney had the season BJGE is having, people would be crying for Belichick to cut him.

 

[stcjones]

Maroney ran for 0.5 yards vs Tennessee.

HA HA HA HA!! OUCH! Game set match..

 

[spacecrime]

2) Did anyone else notice Bill Belichick make a bee-line to shake hands with Peyton Hillis after the Browns game? Wouldn't it be nice to have THAT kid moving the pile in Foxboro?

I noticed. I think a banger along the lines of Sam Bam would be the best RB for the Pats offense.

 

[Rob0729]

Really guys? Did you all forget about the inevitable dancing in the backfield that ends up a 3 yard loss? How often do you see that out of BJGE? He consistently takes what is available, and consistently falls forward for an extra yard or two after contact. He isn't going to be a homerun threat, but he does have the ability to pick up good chunks. If you guys really need someone to whine about on the offense, Matt Light has been playing pretty poorly this year...

Light has been playing poorly? Really?!? Other than a handful of plays this season and the San Diego game, he has been pretty well. He is still an above average LT (not way above average, but above average). Brady was barely touched last week and is one of the least sacked QBs in the league. And you want to complain about Matt Light?

Further proof that certain guys (Maroney, Light) get crap all the time whether they deserve it or not while other guys (BJGE) get praise even at times when they play stretches of mediocrity.

 

[stcjones]

Maroney ran for 0.5 yards vs Tennessee.

HA HA HA HA!! OUCH! Game set match..

 

[spacecrime]

So let's just IR Taylor now. Why put a far superior RB on the field because he is injury prone. Let's stick with one of the worst #1 RBs in the league. Great idea.

Why would you want to IR Taylor? Even if it is sarcasm it doesn't make sense, especially as GE is hardly the worst #1 RB in the league.

Anyway, RBs are like a lot of positions. You cannot compare them across the league but must look at what they do based on your team. If a team is a grind it out running team, then they want big OLinesmen. Other teams like the Pats and Colts put a high premium on pass defense and nimbleness.

In the case of RBs for the Pats, the most important thing for them is to make the other team vulnerable to play action.

It doesn't matter if BJGE or Maroney or anyone else only gets two yards. The important thing is that they run hard enough to make the other team put 7 (or more) in the box when they are in the backfield. BJGE does that. Even if he is only getting 2 pards a pop (and he is getting more than twice that), the D has to guard against him because he is hard to tackle.

Just like Faulk would never be a #1 back with other teams. His skill set is perfect for QB protection in passing plays, running draws, and catching balls out of the backfield. Woodhead is doing fine in that role.

In my 53 prediction, Green Ellis didn't make the cut. I was wrong, and I am now a believer.

 

[Kasmir]

If Maroney was far more consistent than BJGE why is he so hated? Why were there so many threads attacking him?

(1) Credentialism. Fans have real trouble crediting unheralded players with doing well. BJGE is about as unheralded as they come. Despite being all-SEC at Mississippi, his poor measurables led to his being heavily discounted as a pro prospect and going undrafted. And BJGE was no one's "binky". Credentials count for far too much. Why else would anyone possibly think that (say) Mendenhall (1st round 23rd pick) is better than BJGE this year? Let alone Maroney (please).

(2) He's unexciting. BJGE lacks both elusiveness and break away speed. He's an extremely competent slasher, but he lacks home run skills. His lack of long runs to inflate his per carry average also conceals how very effective a runner he is on average.

(3) Platooning. Ironically he's partnered with the other unheralded hyper-performing back in the league, Danny Woodhead. Neither BJGE or Woodhead are on the field enough to compile significant individual NFL or fantasy stats, so they're overlooked, despite being the most effective per-play combo in the league. And neither of them began the season as starters.

(4) Tom Brady. The Patriots are a possession passing team which takes away from the opportunities for running backs, as well as diminishing their reputation. Even Patriots fans are largely oblivious to how good the Patriots' running attack is.

(5) Boston football fans. Traditionally possibly the most ignorant football market in the country -- present company excepted of course . This has been improving over the past 15 years, but we still have a few of the worst football writers in the country, relatively weak high school and especially college programs, and a persistent baseball fetish.

Here are the latest FO stats for running backs. BJGE is #3 in DVOA, and if Danny Woodhead had more carries, he'd be #1 (and BJGE #4). That's why the Patriot's running game is #2 in DVOA, i.e per-play opposition adjusted effectiveness. BJGE is now #3 in DYAR, despite the platooning. Only Arian Foster and Jamal Charles have contributed more this year by that stat.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2010

The Patriot's have one of the best pair of running backs in the league, but they get no respect even from their own fan base.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That is below average at least in terms of yards. Last year, Jerome Harrison was the 20th ranked RB in terms of yards with 862 (and Harrison only played 14 games last year). BJGE is on pace for about 830-840 in 16 games. The TDs would put him close to or in the top 10 though. Joseph Addai and a few others were tied for 9th with 10 TDs last year.

Maroney had 745 yards and 6 TDs last year while only playing 14 games and most people on this board considered that disgraceful. BJGE is on pace for about 80 more yards in two more games (granted 4-5 more TDs, but be is the Pats goalline RB right now) and people think he is great. Maroney in 13 games had as many yards as BJGE is on pace for and he played 13 games that year and many consider that a horrible season too.

Tell me that it isn't perception based on draft position over actual production. Maroney is a bum while BJGE is great for rushing for similiar stats.

Maroney this year has sucked, but everyone has sucked in Denver running the ball. Knowshon Moreno got his first over 60 yards game on Sunday vs. the Chiefs because he rushed a lot in garbage time, but otherwise no one has been able to run for anything in Denver. It isn't all Maroney's fault. But then again, I don't think Maroney is the answer for lead back either.

I brought up Maroney b/c that was a best example of a RB whos production has been brutal this year.

My point is that BJGE is having a serviceable year- just as Maroney did in 09 until he started to fumble. Both RBs had/have some consistiency concerns but overall have been ok in this style of offense. I've always said that about LoMo. With that said, he never reached my expectations (except late in the year in 07 and the playoffs) but thats besides the point.

Folks have to be pleased with what BJGE is giving them just they should if it was LoMo with 472 yds and 6 TDs. As you point out, the draft status and preception of the talent level demands more production.

My .02$

 

[JackBauer]

If you guys really need someone to whine about on the offense, Matt Light has been playing pretty poorly this year...

Um, no he hasn't.

 

[stcjones]

Really guys? Did you all forget about the inevitable dancing in the backfield that ends up a 3 yard loss? How often do you see that out of BJGE? He consistently takes what is available, and consistently falls forward for an extra yard or two after contact. He isn't going to be a homerun threat, but he does have the ability to pick up good chunks. If you guys really need someone to whine about on the offense, Matt Light has been playing pretty poorly this year...

Great post...now here's someone who really understands the running game! A large chunk of whether your running game is successful or not falls on the OL....BJGE has done a great job this year....

 

[Rob0729]

Why would you want to IR Taylor? Even if it is sarcasm it doesn't make sense, especially as GE is hardly the worst #1 RB in the league.

Anyway, RBs are like a lot of positions. You cannot compare them across the league but must look at what they do based on your team. If a team is a grind it out running team, then they want big OLinesmen. Other teams like the Pats and Colts put a high premium on pass defense and nimbleness.

In the case of RBs for the Pats, the most important thing for them is to make the other team vulnerable to play action.

It doesn't matter if BJGE or Maroney or anyone else only gets two yards. The important thing is that they run hard enough to make the other team put 7 (or more) in the box when they are in the backfield. BJGE does that. Even if he is only getting 2 pards a pop (and he is getting more than twice that), the D has to guard against him because he is hard to tackle.

Just like Faulk would never be a #1 back with other teams. His skill set is perfect for QB protection in passing plays, running draws, and catching balls out of the backfield. Woodhead is doing fine in that role.

In my 53 prediction, Green Ellis didn't make the cut. I was wrong, and I am now a believer.

Sorry, but BJGE doesn't demand that much respect especially with Brady on the field. Most teams want the Pats to run to keep it out of Brady's hands. Part of the reason he was shut down in the first half and came on in the second was because the Steelers kept their safeties off the line because they needed them in coverage because the Pats were picking a part the middle of the field with Welker, Branch, and Gronk.

The general perception around the league is that the Pats don't have much of a running game. Most teams don't concern themselves about the run nearly as much they do vs. most offenses.

I admit I was wrong about BJGE. He can be a decent to good change of pace back and a good fill in lead back for a game or two, but he clearly is not a lead back who can consistently carry the rock. When Taylor comes back, that is when he can really excell with Taylor as the lead back and BJGE coming in for certain situations. I think he is a mediocre lead back though. He might develop into one, but he hasn't shown it yet.

 

[patsfan-1982]

he has done a good job but no he would not get any playing time on any of the other top 11 teams and that because they all have top RB's



only the pats and colts dont have a great starting RB and that because they are both passing teams and BJGE only has good games when brady is haveing a great game and the defense has to play the pass first, but IMO he has done a good job and so have the pats with the RB's they have

 

[patsinthesnow]

Sorry, but BJGE doesn't demand that much respect especially with Brady on the field. Most teams want the Pats to run to keep it out of Brady's hands. Part of the reason he was shut down in the first half and came on in the second was because the Steelers kept their safeties off the line because they needed them in coverage because the Pats were picking a part the middle of the field with Welker, Branch, and Gronk.

The general perception around the league is that the Pats don't have much of a running game. Most teams don't concern themselves about the run nearly as much they do vs. most offenses.

This is pure BS or the Steelers defense is special needs. How many times was a play action pass from BJGE used? It had to be used a dozen times and worked perfectly.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

A) I was so wrong in not predicting that Belichick would dump Maroney and not get any additions at running back. He chose to count on Green-Ellis (perhaps on a healthy Taylor).

B) Obviously, I'm glad that we have Green-Ellis. Otherwise Morris would be carrying more of the load and would be out injured by now. And Green-Ellis has been doing very well, given his skill set. He has certainly been adequate.

QUESTION
C) For how many playoff (or top 12) teams would Green-Ellis be the #1 running back instead of their present #1 running back.

I didn't read the whole thread but someone must have said something about Woodhead in here.

 

[Rob0729]

(1) Credentialism. Fans have real trouble crediting unheralded players with doing well. BJGE is about as unheralded as they come. Despite being all-SEC at Mississippi, his poor measurables led to his being heavily discounted as a pro prospect. And BJGE was no one's "binky". Credentials count for far too much. Why else would anyone possibly think that (say) Mendenhall is better than BJGE this year? Let alone Maroney (please).

That is whooey! If anything, the fans fall in love with the unheralded guys who perform above their heads. The following players are players who came to the Pats unheraldly who became folk heroes or people's binkies - Danny Woodhead, Brandon Deadrick, Sebatian Vollmer, Wes Welker (even before the rest of the league caught on), David Givens, Gary Guyton (at least last year), Tyrone McKenzie (the guy was annoited the next great ILB long before he ever hit the field and proved everyone wrong), Shawn Crable (ditto), Mike Wright,

It is usually the marque guys who don't get a break in this town. Maroney was killed because he never lived up to his first round status even when he played fairly well like in 2007. Matt Light can shut down his side all game and he lets a defender through on one play and he had a horrible game. Mayo struggles because of injury last year and he is a failed draft pick. Brady throws an interception and he lost his passion for football and doesn't show the fire he used to.

You are way off base on this point.

(2) He's unexciting. BJGE lacks both elusiveness and break away speed. He's an extremely competent slasher, but he lacks home run skills. His lack of long runs to inflate his per carry average also conceals how very effective a runner he is on average.

People loved Sammy Morris before he hit the age wall and he is just as unexciting.

(3) Platooning. Ironically he's partnered with the other unheralded hyper-performing back in the league, Danny Woodhead. Neither BJGE or Woodhead are on the field enough to compile individual NFL or fantasy stats, so they're overlooked, despite being the most effective per-play combo in the league. And neither of them began the season as starters.

You have a harder time naming teams that aren't RB by committee than who are these days. I think this is a weak argument. Jamaal Charles is 6th in rushing yards and he platoons with Thomas Jones. Ahmad Bradshaw is third and he platoons with Brandon Jacobs. Ray Rice is 13th and he platoons with Willis McGahee.

(4) Tom Brady. The Patriots are a running team which takes away from the opportunities for running backs, as well as diminishing their reputation. Even Patriots fans are largely oblivious to how good the Patriots' running attack is.

This has some validity. But Brady's reputation doesn't change the fact that BJGE has rushed for under 25 YPG in three of the last five games.

(5) Boston football fans. Traditionally possibly the most ignorant football market in the country -- present company excepted of course . This has been improving over the past 15 years, but we still have some of the worst football writers in the country, relatively weak high school and especially college programs, and a persistent baseball fetish.

Not touching this one.

Here are the latest FO stats for running backs. BJGE is #3 in DVOA, and if Danny Woodhead had more carries, he'd be #1 (and BJGE #4). That's why the Patriot's running game is #2 in DVOA, i.e per-play opposition adjusted effectiveness. BJGE is now #3 in DYAR, despite the platooning. Only Arian Foster and Jamal Charles have contributed more this year by that stat.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2010

The Patriot's have one of the best pair of running backs in the league, but they get no respect even from their own fan base.

Although Football Outsider is a better stat analyzer than most, stats in the NFL are very misleading and can be misinterpreted. I will not speak to this because I do not know how they measure this and I will have to look at it before I comment on how they came to that stat. But even BJGE supporters gotta say there is something flawed about this DVOA if BJGE is third in the league by their standards.

 

[Patspsycho]

Here are the latest FO stats for running backs. BJGE is #3 in DVOA, and if Danny Woodhead had more carries, he'd be #1 (and BJGE #4). That's why the Patriot's running game is #2 in DVOA, i.e per-play opposition adjusted effectiveness. BJGE is now #3 in DYAR, despite the platooning. Only Arian Foster and Jamal Charles have contributed more this year by that stat.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2010

The Patriot's have one of the best pair of running backs in the league, but they get no respect even from their own fan base.

You don't say!

I can't wait to see how Rob0279 is going to discount the DVOA, and consider it rubbish.

 

[Rob0729]

This is pure BS or the Steelers defense is special needs. How many times was a play action pass from BJGE used? It had to be used a dozen times and worked perfectly.

First, it is one game. How often have the Pats effectively used the play action pass this season? Not very much. The run was effective in the second half of the game in Pittsburgh that made the playaction work. How often were the Jets, Chargers, Browns, or Ravens get burned on the play action when BJGE was in the backfield?

Second, the Steelers are a team that can be taken off their game by misdirection. They are an agressive defense and you make them think run for even a second, it can knock them off their game.

Third, you only want to look at single games when it suits you. i can point to the Browns game as proof that BJGE can't even get 2 YPC, but it is one game.

 

[Rob0729]

You don't say!

I can't wait to see how Rob0279 is going to discount the DVOA, and consider it rubbish.

I already said I won't comment on these stats specifically until I look at it, but I have long been on record saying I don't buy into DVOA eventhough I think it is better than most of these stats compilers. Stats in the NFL are misleading and cannot be quantified like baseball stats. According to stats alone, Brady had his second best year of his career last year when in reality it was closer to one of his worst.

I say give BJGE a $50 million contract since he is clearly the third best RB in the league though.

 

[patsinthesnow]

First, it is one game. How often have the Pats effectively used the play action pass this season? Not very much. The run was effective in the second half of the game in Pittsburgh that made the playaction work. How often were the Jets, Chargers, Browns, or Ravens get burned on the play action when BJGE was in the backfield?

Second, the Steelers are a team that can be taken off their game by misdirection. They are an agressive defense and you make them think run for even a second, it can knock them off their game.

Third, you only want to look at single games when it suits you. i can point to the Browns game as proof that BJGE can't even get 2 YPC, but it is one game.

It's worked all season. win.