Ben-Jarvis Green-Ellis

[jack99]

That's called getting carried away.

I'll take you up in a friendly way on that When I say "Smith was the definition of a journeyman, while BJGE is several levels above that.", it's because I see BJGE as a bona-fide, legit, full-time *good* running back. Any time you get 4+ ypc from your RB, you're doing very well. Smith got 4.0 his first year with the pats, then declined to 3.9 and 3.5. He was big and could grind out yards, but he was nowhere near as quick to the line nor had the ability to break tackles like BJGE. When it comes to running backs for the Pats, the best ever by far was Curtis Martin, who was almost magical. BJGE isn't in his league, for sure. But I will say that he easily beats out Antoine Smith, and *may be* the best Pats RB since Curtis.

 

[Patjew]

I'll take you up in a friendly way on that When I say "Smith was the definition of a journeyman, while BJGE is several levels above that.", it's because I see BJGE as a bona-fide, legit, full-time *good* running back. Any time you get 4+ ypc from your RB, you're doing very well. Smith got 4.0 his first year with the pats, then declined to 3.9 and 3.5. He was big and could grind out yards, but he was nowhere near as quick to the line nor had the ability to break tackles like BJGE. When it comes to running backs for the Pats, the best ever by far was Curtis Martin, who was almost magical. BJGE isn't in his league, for sure. But I will say that he easily beats out Antoine Smith, and *may be* the best Pats RB since Curtis.

What Smith did with the 2001 Pats offense was much more impressive than what BJGE is doing this year.

 

[Patspsycho]

But I will say that he easily beats out Antoine Smith, and *may be* the best Pats RB since Curtis.

I think it would be wise to include Corey Dillon in this equation. Dillon gave us 12 or 13 TDs every season from '04 to '06. Numbers-wise, BJGE looks like he may reach the 10 or 12 TD mark by season's end and could well end up with 800 to 900 yards, which is respectable, but until that happens, I think Dillon is the best RB we've had since Curtis Martin.

 

[weswelker#83]

he's on pace to hit 1k on less than 18 carries a game. I think there are a lot of people on this board that need to stop thinking they are scouts and start realizing they are fans. We have no clue what we think they know

Personally , i respect Ben-Jarvis Green-Ellis hard running style, but my favorite all time is still Corey Dillon, i hope that one day the Pats get someone similar to Dillon's skills, that guy was Fantastic to watch, he still got the Patriots record yard in a year.

Like i said, i still like Ben-Jarvis Green-Ellis.

 

[Patspsycho]

What Smith did with the 2001 Pats offense was much more impressive than what BJGE is doing this year.

To be truthful, BJGE has 5 more games left before we should judge him, but I will say that topping 12 TDs and 1,100 yards like Smith did in 2001, is going to be hard to top, so we will see. However, it is hard not to be pleased with what a hard-working UDFA has done so far.

 

[Kasmir]

The defending Super Bowl Champs(sorry, it just never gets old saying that) would at least have him getting a decent number of carries, given he has the same success as he's having with the Patriots. Pierre Thomas is out, Bush isn't really an every down back, Betts and Jones are serviceable but not spectacular, and Ivory is a rookie. He would have just as good a chance as any of the aforementioned(minus Pierre) to carry a majority of the load. The Patriots have that "next man up" mentality that the Saints are also operating with. It's a benefit of having an elite coaching staff who are fantastic at spotting, acquiring, and maximizing talent and depth. Most important thing to have in today's NFL, IMO.

Great post -- and I agree that a healthy Pierre Thomas is one of the backs I would start unreservedly over this year's BJGE...

 

[Patjew]

To be truthful, BJGE has 5 more games left before we should judge him, but I will say that topping 12 TDs and 1,100 yards like Smith did in 2001, is going to be hard to top, so we will see. However, it is hard not to be pleased with what a hard-working UDFA has done so far.

No doubt... I'm more-than pleased with BJGE. But even if he matches Smith's 2001 stats, we should remember that Smith did his work in a much more predictable, less electric offense. No doubt that made his job harder.

This isn't too denigrate BJGE, who I like a lot. It's simply to praise and remember Smith.

 

[Kasmir]

I think it would be wise to include Corey Dillon in this equation. Dillon gave us 12 or 13 TDs every season from '04 to '06. Numbers-wise, BJGE looks like he may reach the 10 or 12 TD mark by season's end and could well end up with 800 to 900 yards, which is respectable, but until that happens, I think Dillon is the best RB we've had since Curtis Martin.

Dillon's 2004 season was the best single year of any Patriot back save Jim Nance's 1458 yard 14 game season in 1966. IMO, Running from scrimmage, Dillon in his prime was a better back than Curtis Martin in his prime.

I agree that Curtis Martin was a better back than BJGE is ever likely to be, but he was a bit of a dancer and might not do much better with this team than Benny is doing. Benny's actually having a better DVOA year than Curtis Martin had in his career year of 2004 (21.9% vs 18.6%). Benny is a *very* efficient slasher...

 

[weswelker#83]

Dillon's 2004 season was the best single year any Patriot back save Jim Nance's 1400 yard effort. IMO, Running from scrimmage, Dillon in his prime was a better back than Curtis Martin in his prime.

I agree that Curtis Martin was a better back than BJGE is ever likely to be, but he was a bit of a dancer and might not do much better with this team than Benny is doing. Benny's actually having a better DVOA year than Curtis Martin had in his career year of 2004 (21.9% vs 18.6%). Benny is a *very* efficient slasher...

Agreed 100%,

that what i exactly said a couple posts earlier.

 

[jack99]

Yes, it's true Dillon did have that monster year when he first came to the Pats, and was a top RB for many years for the Bengals. My evaluation of him is marred by the fact that he quickly went into decline while on the Pats. It happened almost overnight, it seemed.

I'm surprised that CM's DVOA, which I looked up but don't really get, is less than BJGE's. That surely speaks well for BJGE.

In terms of Dillon vs. CM - I don't know how they compare statistically, and Dillon must have had greater breakaway speed. Still, I would take CM over Dillon in a heartbeat. That's not a knock on Dillon, though. It's just that I really enjoyed CM's marvelous running skill, work ethic, his incredible knack for making tacklers miss (that was the best part), and his humble, religious attitude. Sucks the Jets snared him away.

I love the video of BJGE's touchdown run. That's the first time I've seen it, I missed that play. I must have been gnawing on a turkey leg.

 

[woodheadwow]

I loved Martin, too... but I think Dillon was a better player. Seems like most fans disagree, though. As for BJGE, I was wrong about that guy. I didn't think he could play; he's proven that he can. I still don't like him in short yardage situations, though. If we could get one more productive guy the RB position could end up being a strength next year. By the way, I wish they would either play Sammy Morris more or cut him. I hate the fact that he eats up a roster spot and never plays. (my preference is for him to play more, because I think he is good enough to help this team)

WW

Yes, it's true Dillon did have that monster year when he first came to the Pats, and was a top RB for many years for the Bengals. My evaluation of him is marred by the fact that he quickly went into decline while on the Pats. It happened almost overnight, it seemed.

I'm surprised that CM's DVOA, which I looked up but don't really get, is less than BJGE's. That surely speaks well for BJGE.

In terms of Dillon vs. CM - I don't know how they compare statistically, and Dillon must have had greater breakaway speed. Still, I would take CM over Dillon in a heartbeat. That's not a knock on Dillon, though. It's just that I really enjoyed CM's marvelous running skill, work ethic, his incredible knack for making tacklers miss (that was the best part), and his humble, religious attitude. Sucks the Jets snared him away.

I love the video of BJGE's touchdown run. That's the first time I've seen it, I missed that play. I must have been gnawing on a turkey leg.

 

[RayClay]

No doubt... I'm more-than pleased with BJGE. But even if he matches Smith's 2001 stats, we should remember that Smith did his work in a much more predictable, less electric offense. No doubt that made his job harder.

This isn't too denigrate BJGE, who I like a lot. It's simply to praise and remember Smith.

At his best, in the 4th quarter, like Dillon, he had defenses slapping at him, exhausted, He'd rip off some 20-40 yard runs under those conditions.

BJ has done great this year, but without the passing of Brady and good play calling he's had some 2.0 efforts.

Smith had to run it up the middle with training wheels Brady, who really didn't force teams to respect the pass.

Martins had great heart and smarts, but didn't punish defenses like Dillon. His 278 yard game used to be on youtube. he demoralized defenses. they just wanted to go home. it was awesome.

 

[RayClay]

I loved Martin, too... but I think Dillon was a better player. Seems like most fans disagree, though. As for BJGE, I was wrong about that guy. I didn't think he could play; he's proven that he can. I still don't like him in short yardage situations, though. If we could get one more productive guy the RB position could end up being a strength next year. By the way, I wish they would either play Sammy Morris more or cut him. I hate the fact that he eats up a roster spot and never plays. (my preference is for him to play more, because I think he is good enough to help this team)

WW

I think we should use Sammy more too. He's a good receiver and runs with power. I'm not holding out a lot of hope for Taylor, though i guess he came off the injured list?

Character wise, you've got to love BJ, but Smith was a 1st round choice, about 240 pounds and fast when he got going (not quick).

 

[PYPER]

I do think Fred was active as an emergency option. BB's been known to do that with hurt role players from time to time, and at this point I don't think Fred is ever going to be more than a role player for us.

Even when Taylor's fully healthy again, it wouldn't surprise me to see Benny start every game for the remainder of the season. He's not spectacular, but he's certainly earned the job, and I think at this point Fred's job is going to be lighten the Law Firm's load the rest of the way, and give us a little more explosion in the power running game.

None of the backs are really indispensable this year.

Belichick's football philosophy is that EVERY player is a role player. When Taylor is fully healthy, he'll get a few reps, but at this point, BJGE is running REALLY well. He attacks the line of scrimmage, reads his blocks, and always seems to maximize his carries. If the line creates room for a 4 yard gain, he'll not only get those 4 yards but usually a few more by fighting and squeezing through tacklers. He's got the perfect style to complement our offense.

When Taylor gets his carries, it won't be b/c of a lack of faith in BJGE but rather a desire to keep them both healthy and effective through the remainder of the season.

And one more thing....the title "starter" on this team means nothing. They're all role players. Some roles may be bigger than others and that can change week to week based on the opponent, game plan, or some other detail on Belichick's mind.

 

[PYPER]

Yes, it's true Dillon did have that monster year when he first came to the Pats, and was a top RB for many years for the Bengals. My evaluation of him is marred by the fact that he quickly went into decline while on the Pats. It happened almost overnight, it seemed.

I'm surprised that CM's DVOA, which I looked up but don't really get, is less than BJGE's. That surely speaks well for BJGE.

In terms of Dillon vs. CM - I don't know how they compare statistically, and Dillon must have had greater breakaway speed. Still, I would take CM over Dillon in a heartbeat. That's not a knock on Dillon, though. It's just that I really enjoyed CM's marvelous running skill, work ethic, his incredible knack for making tacklers miss (that was the best part), and his humble, religious attitude. Sucks the Jets snared him away.

I love the video of BJGE's touchdown run. That's the first time I've seen it, I missed that play. I must have been gnawing on a turkey leg.

I loved CM as well. He was my favorite player when he left. However, I disagree with that he was a better player than Dillon. Dillon was only Dillon for one year for us. But he was a much more physically punishing runner. He ran with a style that would just beat up a defense. Look at how we took apart the Colts in the playoffs that year. We held them to 3 points, not b/c our defense was dominant, but rather b/c our offense was on the field for practically the entire second half of that game. CM was a great player and hopefully will get in the Hall one day, but Dillon was by far the better runner. It's too bad he spent so much of his career wasting away in Cincy. Even for the Bengals, he once held the top TWO single rushing days in NFL history. He had vision, speed, and power. On a good team, he might've been regarded as the best to ever play the game....or at least the best since Jim Brown.

 

[Reckedtrek]

as of this week (@ 9 and 2!!), BJGE's stats:
627 total yards
9 TD's
4.3 YPC avg.
0 (that's ZERO) fumbles
No missed games/No signif. injuries

Given the colder/bad weather is coming, it is common to run the ball a bit more... it is reasonable to expect BJGE to end up with 1,000 yards/13 TDs/4.2 YPC and 0 fumbles this season after the regular season ends- not including playoffs, and assuming he continues to be as durable as he has been over his career.

If someone told you in August that we would have a back with these numbers (which are damn respectable) ... I think most of us would be pretty happy with that.

I like BJGE. He's anything but glamorous, and is the true underdog, no name back that some people refuse to acknowledge because he wasn't a first round draft pick.

 

[Anj]

i personally love BJGE. if you go to football outsiders, he is ranked as the third most effective back in the NFL behind Arian Foster, and Jamaal Charles.
What I really like about him is his success percentage. it's 56% and tied with Foster for one of the highest percentages. (this is through week 11, so the lions game hasn't been factored in yet.)

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2010

 

[Patspsycho]

It could still be an injury-related thing with Taylor. For this game, Green-Ellis was the best option because Taylor hasn't played a game in what, like 8 weeks?

I do think Fred was active as an emergency option. BB's been known to do that with hurt role players from time to time, and at this point I don't think Fred is ever going to be more than a role player for us.

TheComeback was right. Here it is, straight from the horse's mouth:

Taylor, out since Week 3 with turf toe, was dressed for the Patriots’ Thanksgiving Day win over the Lions but did not play. “I wanted some action on that day,” he admitted. “But it was more so an emergency-type deal, to get out there and go back through the rituals, get back in the routine, being out there with the team, going through pregame, and just be ready if anything had happened.”

It Is What It Is Fred Taylor on D&H: ‘I’m ready to play’ vs. Jets