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Ben Grubbs

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by dryheat44, Mar 15, 2007.

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  1. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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  2. cstjohn17

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    I have wondered about him, we are pretty solid at Guard, weaker on the edges. Some questions for you:
    How does this impact the O Line?
    Where does he play?
    Does this make Mankins to tackle?

    Would it ever mess with our heads if they took a DT like Justin Harrell and an OG Ben Grubbs.
  3. SamBamsFan

    SamBamsFan Rookie

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    I'm on board. Better get ready to duck though...

    Seriously though, the only player who might be there @ 24 (this being The Ides of March, 6.5 weeks before the draft) that I would take before him would be Darrelle Revis. JMO. He would be a difference maker in the center of our line for the next 5 years, and we haven't had that type of OLineman in years.
  4. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    He sounds good, and as if he could become a better pass blocker than Stephen Neal -- but I doubt he'd be enough of an upgrade to wind up as best value when we have so many forthcoming holes to fill on defense.
  5. SamBamsFan

    SamBamsFan Rookie

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    Define value please?
  6. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    I've actually thought NE might take Ben Grubbs or Justin Harrell with their 28th pick. But, only if their aren't more talented players available.
  7. SamBamsFan

    SamBamsFan Rookie

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    Hate to keep answering questions w/ questions but who do you think is more valuable?

    I have Griffin & Meriweather off my board for different reasons. Nelson, I would certainly question whether he has more value esp. since I think @ 91 there will be several Safeties I like who I feel will have close to the same impact. It is supposed to be an excellent draft for WR's, but we have 5 (plus Troy) who you would think would make the team. @ LB I am not convinced that anyone we draft @ 24, or 28 will make any type of short term impact. RB, we are 5 deep w/ veterans. TE, we have 3.5. CB, we could use. But do you want the pontential 4-5th best player @ their position, or the best?
  8. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    If Grubbs is better than Neal or Hochstein or Yates, then he'll make the team. I don't buy the argument since these guys have contracts, or because they were good soldiers, or because the coaching staff like them, that they can't be cut or traded. A middle of the OL consisting of Grubbs-Koppen-Mankins would be a dominant unit for the next five years.

    The first guy I'm targeting is Carriker. If he goes off the board in the top 15, I'm then looking at the next group, which consists of Revis, Meachem, and Spencer.

    If those four guys are off the board, and they probably will be, it's time to consider drafting Grubbs as the best player available.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  9. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    I saw a lot of Auburn games this year and he was very impressive. He also looked better than anybody else in the position drills at the Senior Bowl, very fluid.

    He has good size

    Ht: 6-3 Wt: 311

    He didn't do the short shuttle, 3-cone, or vertical jump at the combine. I couldn't find any numbers for his pro day on these but I'd be interested. He comes off the ball really well and has excellent balance so I wonder if he could play RT as well.
  10. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Arkansas and Auburn Pro-Day results:

    http://fflivewire.com/Article.asp?ID=3132007rpj7624ok
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    While I agree with what you said, the more important part of it is that if the coaching staff liked Neal enough to give him a good money extension just a year ago, they must like him enough to not be looking to replace him. It's not the fact that he has a good contract that should keep us from replacing him, it's the fact that he was liked enough by the staff to get a good contract that should keep us from replacing him.
  12. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    Thanks.

    Ben Grubbs OL Grubbs (314 pounds) ran the 40-yard dash in 5.10. He also had a 4.78 short shuttle, 7.70 three-cone drill and 35 strength lifts. He worked out well in position drills.
  13. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    IMO the strength of the Pats O-line is their interior 3. What is the difference between Grubbs, Blalock and Sears? if anything, Sears and Blalock seem like better options due to more versatility (the ability to play Tackle). Interesting note on Mankins: Mankins has the biggest hands of any Lineman I have read about in recent years, over 11 3/8". Size of hands indicates natural strength, and broad bone structure, which seems to translate better to football leverage than the manufactured weight room strength indicated by 225 repetitons.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  14. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    You answered the question right after you asked it. The difference is on the playing field.
  15. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    What do you think separates Grubbs from the other two?
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  16. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    Ben Grubbs 6'3" (314 pounds)
    40: 5.10
    4.78 short shuttle
    7.70 three-cone drill


    Mankins, Logan (OG) Fresno State 6'4" 307
    40: 5.06
    Short shuttle:4.45
    3-Cone: 7.54
  17. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Interestingly (for me at least) of the top OG prospects, Manny Ramirez of TTech has the biggest hands at 10 5/8 and the most weight room strength. He played in the spread offense and is used to blocking in space. He looked gassed during Senior Bowl drills, so his stamina may be an issue, but hie more than held his own and his raw talent seems impressive.
  18. SamBamsFan

    SamBamsFan Rookie

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    He is interesting, but it is going to be quite a transition for him as TX Tech runs a unique offense. From scouts inc summary:

    " Ramirez lacks great balance and he failed to show improvement in his technique as a senior. Furthermore, he will have a big adjustment to make as an NFL player coming from Texas Tech's spread offensive attack..."

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11065
  19. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    BB usually drafts guys who rotate year one, and start one, or two years later.

    If there didn't seem to be any of the top players left at S, CB, or LB I would probably take Ryan Kalil, Grubbs, or Justin Harrell.


    Right now I would take any of these players, if they're available (players do slide people):

    Willis (would trade into the 14-18 range for him)

    Landry (would trade into the 14-18 range for him)

    Carriker (If he slides to 24. I would not trade up for him.)

    Timmons (I think Timmons could be an impact player, and good rotational OLB straight out of college, but he would be a two year project at ILB. Maybe he would replace Vrabel two years from now as the second versatile LB on the corp, with AD being the other).

    Revis (For NE's system I can't see a better CB in the first round.)

    Houston (Second best CB for NE's system. Can play very physical at times, and locks people down in man coverage, but can he develop at Zone? Personally I think they need to play more man/press coverage, anyways.)

    Spencer (He can play 3-4 ILB, has good penetration, and plays with a mean streak.)

    Meriweather (only at 28, but I would rather trade into the second for him. He can play FS, SS, and CB. If not for the question marks he would be a lock first rounder.)

    Griffin (only at 28. I think Meriweather's playing style/ability fits NE's defense better, but Griffin doesn't have the "?".)


    Maybe:
    Siler or Harris or Posluszny at 28.


    I don't want:
    Marcus McCauley (I like his potential and what he did as a junior, but considering his benching, and lack of production as a senior I wouldn't touch him in the first. I do really like him though, and think he would fit NE's defense well.)

    Greg Olsen (Yes he was outstanding at the combine, but as an actual player he was somewhat inconsistent, and is a horrid blocker.)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Do you want Grubbs at Guard, or Tackle?

    I also like John Wendling but I would draft him to play SS, and Meriweather, or Griffin at FS. I do not like Aaron Rouse at all.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  20. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Just dominating whomever was lined up against him for the last two years. I think he's a couple notches above Blalock (whom I have questions about agility and ability to hit a moving target). Sears is tougher, because he is a projection.

    I don't claim to have watched an extraordinary amount of NCAA football over the last decade, but the last guy I've seen dominate like Grubbs at the NCAA level was Orlando Pace. I don't think I've ever seen a guard bury guys with such regularity.

    If Grubbs played tackle (and some scouts think he can), he'd be a top 10 pick.
  21. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Grubbs is not as good against 3-4 defenses, though...
  22. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Why would you draft a guard in round 1 when you have glaring needs in the defense?

    I know "value". How do you define the value to a team of a guard who would at best be replacing a player almost as good and a defensive back who could take over Samuel's 8M salary cap hit next year for 1/5 the price?

    How about guard 1st round, TEs for the next two picks, then two QBs, and maybe a PK in there too? Using the "value" system, if those are the best guys (how do you compare "value" across positions anyway) then that's who they should draft, right?
  23. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    I think most of us would rather see defensive players drafted or a trade down but as it's been pointed out in other posts if all the good defensive prospects are gone and we cannot find a trade down partner then this wouldn't be the worst option.
  24. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    The problem with trading down into the second is the change in the new CBA. Now you can sign second rounders, and below to a maximum 4 year contract. While you can sign draftee's in the first round to 5, and 6 year contracts (first 16 to 6 year deals and second 16 to 5 year deals).
  25. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Well, if the alternative is to reach for guys who don't carry first round grades, or to draft guys that don't fit into the Patriots' system (all projected first round CBs except Revis, for example) or have character flags just because in college they played a position of perceived need, than yes, I will take whom I consider to be the best lineman in the draft, Joe Thomas included, and know that I upgraded my OL.

    You're oversimplifying value, or at least what you think I think it means. To me, value not only derived by the players ability and his potential draft slot, but the ability of the other available players at that position, both on the roster and in the draft. Would I spend a first round pick on a quarterback who's not going to play? No. Would I spend a first round pick on a safety when there are seven others available on the first day who grade out nearly as high? No. Would I take an inside linebacker a little bit higher than I've rated him because he's miles ahead of the next best guy? Absolutely.
  26. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Who knows? To my knowledge there are a total of Zero teams in the SEC who play a 3-4. I would guess he'd be very good at playing against a 3-4 defense, due to his quick feet and athletic ability.
  27. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  28. TheBaronPatriot

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    I don't like Grubbs in the first round mainly because I have not read anywhere anything about his technique. Mankins was regarded as the best technician in the draft and had a mean streak about him.

    He had some injury history and his bench rep figures were not overly impressive.
    But I think the Pats look for technicians in their O-linemen.
  29. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Maybe, but I can't see how there wouldn't be a safety, CB, or LB available who would be better than a "guard" and a good value at the position picked. Used to be guards were a dime a dozen, don't know why it changed so much.

    What's weird is the pats filled their big WR needs through FA, IMO. Don't see them drafting one high.
  30. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Mankins is the best OG in the league according to SI. If drafted Grubbs would play RG. Of all starting positions on the roster, one could argue that RG is less crucial to winning and losing a game than QB, LT, LG, C, TE, DE, NT, ILB, 3-4 OLB, and CB. Therefore, upgrading a weak link at RG may contribute less "value" to your roster than upgrading a weak link at those other positions. Looking short and longterm, if you already are solid at RG for the next 2 years, but are weak right now at ILB, and may degrade seriously next year at CB, then upgrading slightly at RG while ignoring serious current and long-term deficiencies at higher priority positions offers the opposite of "value". It seems wasteful.
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