Belichick's challenge

[Hotnicks]

I definitely think BB is at fault here:

1. Weak to marginal offensive line

2. no pass rush

3. suspect secondary

4. bad playcalling from the coordinators

I agree with the above and in that order. I would add a number "5. weak running game"

 

[upstater1]

First I have no idea who KC Joyner is.

Second, does he realize that Belichick went 18-1 in his 11th year of being a head coach.

Third, Belichick is still in his 50s, and by all accounts he is a details oriented very smart head coach.

Bill Cowher is about to jump back in and he'll be a coach for 20 years when all is said and done.

Again, who is KC Joyner and why should I care?

 

[klinefan]

I definitely think BB is at fault here:

1. Weak to marginal offensive line

2. no pass rush

3. suspect secondary

4. bad playcalling from the coordinators

Yep, why can't people see this?

Ray Lewis was calling our plays for us at the LOS!!! HE KNEW WHAT WE'D RUN. And how hard can it be, it's a checkoff to a Faulk draw. The worm has turned. The chickens of this predictable offense came home to ROOST.

The offense is laughable! A defensive player studying tape and audibles can completely decipher it. But not to worry! It was a "rebuilding year". Yeah, we "rebuilt" with Burgess a one year rental we got for the "low low price" of a 3rd and 5th!

3rd rounders can turn into dependable players for 4-5 years!!! We just lost not only a 3rd but also a 5th on this definition of JAG?? Are you kidding me?

This offense needs a complete re-tooling.

The passive "no pass rush" defense needs re-tooling as well.

If BB is too proud to see that, then he must be getting senile.

 

[dhamz]

in the next year, the pats must go back to their roots ...... physical play was what got this team 3 SB's.... physical play was what used to make peyton manning look stupid.... trying to turn brady into another manning (at least stat-wise) makes for very entertaining football, but there is almost no chance for success for the pats if they continue to pursue this.....brady has never won a thing when passing for more than 4000 yards

This isn't the same NFL that it was when the Pats won those Super Bowls by being physical. The rules are wildly skewed in favor of teams that can throw the football. The first step was the Polian emphasis of the 5 yd illegal contact, the next was the over protection of the QB, and when you throw in the ridiculousness of how they call pass interference you simply aren't going to win consistently in this league anymore without throwing the ball.

Of the top 15 (half the league) passing teams 14 of them were .500 or better. Sea who was 15th and was awful is the lone exception.

For comparison in 2004, the Chiefs were 4th in passing and went 7-9, the Raiders were 8th and went 5-11, Carolina 9th at 7-9, Tenn 10th at 5-11. That is 4 of the top 10 in 2004, none of the top 14 in 2009.

I'm not saying this team can't become more physical. It can and needs to. I'm not saying it doesn't need to make changes in offensive scheme and defensive personnel. It does. If you are looking for a return to the style of the early part of the decade it isn't going to happen. This isn't the same league it was then.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

This isn't the same NFL that it was when the Pats won those Super Bowls by being physical. The rules are wildly skewed in favor of teams that can throw the football. The first step was the Polian emphasis of the 5 yd illegal contact, the next was the over protection of the QB, and when you throw in the ridiculousness of how they call pass interference you simply aren't going to win consistently in this league anymore without throwing the ball.

Of the top 15 (half the league) passing teams 14 of them were .500 or better. Sea who was 15th and was awful is the lone exception.

For comparison in 2004, the Chiefs were 4th in passing and went 7-9, the Raiders were 8th and went 5-11, Carolina 9th at 7-9, Tenn 10th at 5-11. That is 4 of the top 10 in 2004, none of the top 14 in 2009.

I'm not saying this team can't become more physical. It can and needs to. I'm not saying it doesn't need to make changes in offensive scheme and defensive personnel. It does. If you are looking for a return to the style of the early part of the decade it isn't going to happen. This isn't the same league it was then.

don't tell that to the jets or the ravens..........the 2 most physical defense in the NFL just make quick work of their opponents in the AFC wildcard games. the ravens destroyed the pats while only passing for 34 yards.....the way the ravens are playing, I'd be very nervous if I were the colts......the colts got lucky against the ravens since they caught them when they were not playing well and still almost got beat.

 

[upstater1]

don't tell that to the jets or the ravens..........the 2 most physical defense in the NFL just make quick work of their opponents in the AFC wildcard games. the ravens destroyed the pats while only passing for 34 yards.....the way the ravens are playing, I'd be very nervous if I were the colts......the colts got lucky against the ravens since they caught them when they were not playing well and still almost got beat.

I think the Colts may very well lose, but there is no way in hell the Jets and Ravens are going anywhere, particularly to Ravens who are positively trent Dilferish right now.

Arizona, New Orleans, Dallas and San Diego will easily outclass both the Jets and Ravens. They are worlds apart.

My biggest frustration from yesterday's game is that I don't think the Ravens are a very good team, but they are much better than the Patriots at this point.

 

[dhamz]

don't tell that to the jets or the ravens..........the 2 most physical defense in the NFL just make quick work of their opponents in the AFC wildcard games. the ravens destroyed the pats while only passing for 34 yards.....the way the ravens are playing, I'd be very nervous if I were the colts......the colts got lucky against the ravens since they caught them when they were not playing well and still almost got beat.

The Jets and Ravens are both very likely going home next weekend. Neither is going to the Super Bowl and neither is winning it.

You can't win 3 or 4 games in a row against good teams if you can't throw anymore.

 

[SVN]

Players make the team not coaches and Belichick is the first to acknowledge that. Last yr people were challenging him to win without brady because he had a losing record without him. This yr with brady he didnt win so he is outdated. . Same old crap . Give the dallas defensive players in bb's system and see how outdated he is. Our drafts and FA picks in defense have been poor/average and hence we are here right now. If you have any doubts , look at the vikings. Anyone who thinks they are winning because of brad childress needs to examine his/her head.

 

[SVN]

don't tell that to the jets or the ravens..........the 2 most physical defense in the NFL just make quick work of their opponents in the AFC wildcard games. the ravens destroyed the pats while only passing for 34 yards.....the way the ravens are playing, I'd be very nervous if I were the colts......the colts got lucky against the ravens since they caught them when they were not playing well and still almost got beat.

i wont be surprised if the ravens are blown out next week. Last yr they blew out indy when manning was half healthy and a better ravens defense. You wont see the indy off line struggling like our pats line did.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I was gonna lambaste your post until I started reading about gruden......I would love to see Gruden here.......hire him as OC/assistant head coach much the way BB was here when parcells was head coach.....give it a year or so and then hand over the reigns......

chucky would be great.....although I do not believe they share the same philosophy on defense

They don't share the same philosophy on anything... They admire each others talent, Bill is secure enough to admire others and Gruden is smart enough to appreciate genius. Other than that...They are about as dissimilar as any two individual HC's could be.

Chucky is maniacal, he is a brilliant offensive mind but a lousy HC and he has no concept how to construct and manage a roster in the cap era. He won one Superbowl on Dungy's defensive coat tails and then he ground a competitive franchise into the dirt.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This isn't the same NFL that it was when the Pats won those Super Bowls by being physical. The rules are wildly skewed in favor of teams that can throw the football. The first step was the Polian emphasis of the 5 yd illegal contact, the next was the over protection of the QB, and when you throw in the ridiculousness of how they call pass interference you simply aren't going to win consistently in this league anymore without throwing the ball.

Of the top 15 (half the league) passing teams 14 of them were .500 or better. Sea who was 15th and was awful is the lone exception.

For comparison in 2004, the Chiefs were 4th in passing and went 7-9, the Raiders were 8th and went 5-11, Carolina 9th at 7-9, Tenn 10th at 5-11. That is 4 of the top 10 in 2004, none of the top 14 in 2009.

I'm not saying this team can't become more physical. It can and needs to. I'm not saying it doesn't need to make changes in offensive scheme and defensive personnel. It does. If you are looking for a return to the style of the early part of the decade it isn't going to happen. This isn't the same league it was then.

Holley was just musing about this very fact. This team needs to get more physical but you have to maintain the finesse ability to get into a shootout and win. That translates to physical defense and OL and WR/TE and a solid running component but depth of talent at WR so the defense reliant teams without the shootout capable offense to match you can't easily shut your offense down.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

don't tell that to the jets or the ravens..........the 2 most physical defense in the NFL just make quick work of their opponents in the AFC wildcard games. the ravens destroyed the pats while only passing for 34 yards.....the way the ravens are playing, I'd be very nervous if I were the colts......the colts got lucky against the ravens since they caught them when they were not playing well and still almost got beat.

They couldn't have done that to a team with a highly functioning OL and better depth at the WR position and TFB at QB. We didn't really need a better defense to beat them yesterday, we needed a higher functioning passing offense...

 

[Hotnicks]

... We didn't really need a better defense to beat them yesterday, we needed a higher functioning passing offense...

agreed... look at the many 3-and-outs our "great" offense put up when they were well aware of the urgency to score points (even field goals)

 

[TheComeback]

The Pats have better players on defense than the Jets yet the Jets are better. The Jets only great player is a corner. Bill needs to change something.

Um, no. The Jets have significantly better players than the Patriots. You must be smoking something.

Revis, Sheppard, and Lowery are a much better combination than Bodden, Springs, and Butler. Rhodes sucked this year, but he's been great for them in the past. Leonhard is an underrated player.

Their linebackers are better than the Patriots all the way across the board, at every position. It's not even close. That makes a huge difference in a 3-4.

They don't have Wilfork or Warren, but their guys on the dline get the job done.

They have far superior personnel and that's why they're the #1 defense. They were better than the Patriots last year as well. It's not a scheme problem.

 

[Metaphors]

They don't share the same philosophy on anything... They admire each others talent, Bill is secure enough to admire others and Gruden is smart enough to appreciate genius. Other than that...They are about as dissimilar as any two individual HC's could be.

Chucky is maniacal, he is a brilliant offensive mind but a lousy HC and he has no concept how to construct and manage a roster in the cap era. He won one Superbowl on Dungy's defensive coat tails and then he ground a competitive franchise into the dirt.

"Belichick is maniacal, he is a brilliant defensive mind but a lousy HC and he has no concept how to construct and manage a roster in the cap era. He won one playoff game and then he ground a competitive franchise into the dirt."

How many Patriots observers made that or similar comments about Belichick (and his HC resume with the Browns) in early 2000?

And Gruden hardly ground TB into the dirt. He had GMs (McKay and Allen...both with real GM powers) during his time in TB. In his 7 years, his TB teams won their division 3 times and his final year they had a 9-7 record. His non-winning years were 2003 (7-9, Keyshawn meltdown), 2004 (5-11, Bruce Allen releasing everyone) and 2006 (4-12, everyone injured).

That also discounts his success in Oakland. The Raiders were suckish and Gruden led them to 4 non-losing seasons and tough losses (Gannon hurt in AFCC game on late hit and we know what happened in 2001) to the eventual NFL champs in 2000 and 2001.

If you don't like Gruden, you are likely going to be disappointed when Belichick finally does step down.