Belichick Will Take The Reigns

[N.Eman]

my prediction is that its not going to work.

I agree, as good as our coach is, he needs some outside input to at least prove he's right or wrong. Maybe put someone like Pepper Johnson to help out on plays, and not just coach the Defensive Line.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box, you are a very knowledgeable football fan. In your experience, have successful Offensive Coordinators been interns with a couple years of experience, or have they been very creative hired guns with systems honed and tested over the years?

I'm just a stoopid football fan myself, but I've been around a long ass time. I've never seen any team ever, that took interns out of small schools and tried to coach them up into offensive coordinators. It's always been creative specialists in demand by many teams to implement their systems and their creative play calling.

Let's say you can coach up interns. Who on this team is teaching them? Our head coach is decidedly defensively oriented, I don't care what anyone says.

And before anyone goes there, I'm not a Josh McDaniel fan, whether or not it was him calling the plays.

Well golly Ray, I don't know where Bill Belichick finds coaching assistants with 12 years experience in the ACC as RB/QB/OC in three stops. He certainly brings them on at breakneck speed, one year as Offensive Coaching Assistant, one year as WR coach, and one year as QB/OC-in-Training. I guess the fact he was just praised by his Head Coach and given a second year as QB/OC-in-Training is grounds for suicides in the stands.

I take it you've never been involved in training personnel before? This whole thing is classic personnel development, but that's no reason not to slash your wrists. Just do it somewhere it will be easy for folks to clean up afterwards.

 

[Tunescribe]

An apparent defensive guru taking on the mantle of defensive coordinator once more not going to work? Interesting logic given Wade Phillips made it work.

And don't forget that Jabba Rex has little to do with the offense in Jersey. I'll hazard a guess that the Pats defense will be much better in '10. It'll be fun watching the results of BB focusing his energies where he made his reputation to begin with.

It's spelled "reins," by the way.

 

[Larry Whigham]

I don't know about this. Anybody get a resume on this "Bilechick" guy?

 

[IcyPatriot]

I don't know about this. Anybody get a resume on this "Bilechick" guy?

Bob and Jonathan Kraft do ... maybe Myra also.

 

[Deus Irae]

Not sure if it's a big deal. BB was DC in 2000. When RAC became available in 2001, he grabbed him.

I do find it somewhat interesting that they have not given the OC title to O'Brien yet.

On the other hand, O'Brien hasn't been demoted in any way (at least publicly), and he certainly hasn't been replaced.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Box, you are a very knowledgeable football fan. In your experience, have successful Offensive Coordinators been interns with a couple years of experience, or have they been very creative hired guns with systems honed and tested over the years?

I'm just a stoopid football fan myself, but I've been around a long ass time. I've never seen any team ever, that took interns out of small schools and tried to coach them up into offensive coordinators. It's always been creative specialists in demand by many teams to implement their systems and their creative play calling.

Let's say you can coach up interns. Who on this team is teaching them? Our head coach is decidedly defensively oriented, I don't care what anyone says.

And before anyone goes there, I'm not a Josh McDaniel fan, whether or not it was him calling the plays.

I know you directed this at Box Ray, but I can't resist. Where do you think coaches and coordinators emerge from...coaching is a fraternity and most successful coaches are the fruit of select, elite coaching trees.

Bill trained RAC who was never more than a position coach in his years with the Giants and JETS. He was passed over many times including by Parcell's when Bill wasn't available. Charlie was a HS coach when he joined the Giants as an assistant working on ST (under BB). He had worked his way up to position coach when Parcells came here. After Parcell's departed for NY he was named the OC of the JETS, although Parcell's emasculated him as a playcaller before he left to follow Bill to NE. Charlie was running Ray Perkins Giants offense he learned as an assistant working his way up through the ranks. It's the same way any coordinator learns to be one. You tweek it depending on personnel and goals (generally your HC's...) and successful creative capacity.

Belichick has a system and scheme on both sides of the ball he developed or developed an affinity for and apprecaition of over years based on his Giants days. He will either hire guys who knew it like RAC and Charlie, or guys who are bright enough and committed enough to learn it or who were exposed to it by former protoges. He won't ever hire someone with name recognition because of their limited success or abject failure elsewhere to come in here and install a system they were taught somewhere else or developed based on where they came up in the league. Only HC's who don't have their own system or the x's and o's capacity to adopt or develop one assemble a staff that can generate one on one side of the ball or the other and occasionally both. When things don't work out for those HC's, the coordinators are the first thing to go. More often than not, eventually the HC's go.

Part of the reason Kraft hired BB was because he came with a system and philosophy that an organization can ideally sustain even when he decides to call it a day as a HC. He taught/teaches those who teach the next generation. If Dimitroff and Pioli and McDaniels are successful running the system they may find the master poaching their staffs before all is said and done, and one of them may even return to run it here when Bill is ready to hand over the reins.

Beats the hell out of swapping failed flavors of the month coordinators and eventually HC's every couple of seasons when things don't work out...like in Buffalo or NY. That's why Miami hired Parcell's, to build infrastructure and install a system and build a team that can compete. Ditto KC and Atlanta and Denver. Spoiled fans demand championships. What most owners want is competitive consistency.

 

[muzz]

I know you directed this at Box Ray, but I can't resist. Where do you think coaches and coordinators emerge from...coaching is a fraternity and most successful coaches are the fruit of select, elite coaching trees.

Bill trained RAC who was never more than a position coach in his years with the Giants and JETS. He was passed over many times including by Parcell's when Bill wasn't available. Charlie was a HS coach when he joined the Giants as an assistant working on ST (under BB). He had worked his way up to position coach when Parcells came here. After Parcell's departed for NY he was named the OC of the JETS, although Parcell's emasculated him as a playcaller before he left to follow Bill to NE. Charlie was running Ray Perkins Giants offense he learned as an assistant working his way up through the ranks. It's the same way any coordinator learns to be one. You tweek it depending on personnel and goals (generally your HC's...) and successful creative capacity.

Belichick has a system and scheme on both sides of the ball he developed or developed an affinity for and apprecaition of over years based on his Giants days. He will either hire guys who knew it like RAC and Charlie, or guys who are bright enough and committed enough to learn it or who were exposed to it by former protoges. He won't ever hire someone with name recognition because of their limited success or abject failure elsewhere to come in here and install a system they were taught somewhere else or developed based on where they came up in the league. Only HC's who don't have their own system or the x's and o's capacity to adopt or develop one assemble a staff that can generate one on one side of the ball or the other and occasionally both. When things don't work out for those HC's, the coordinators are the first thing to go. More often than not, eventually the HC's go.

Part of the reason Kraft hired BB was because he came with a system and philosophy that an organization can ideally sustain even when he decides to call it a day as a HC. He taught/teaches those who teach the next generation. If Dimitroff and Pioli and McDaniels are successful running the system they may find the master poaching their staffs before all is said and done, and one of them may even return to run it here when Bill is ready to hand over the reins.

Beats the hell out of swapping failed flavors of the month coordinators and eventually HC's every couple of seasons when things don't work out...like in Buffalo or NY. That's why Miami hired Parcell's, to build infrastructure and install a system and build a team that can compete. Ditto KC and Atlanta and Denver. Spoiled fans demand championships. What most owners want is competitive consistency.

Well said MLr :rocker:

 

[mgteich]

I have had this issue with some bosses I've worked with in the past. Belichick may be better than anyone to perform each of the functions below. I certainly believe that he is. And maybe is SO, SO great, that he can step in and do two jobs well at the same time.

But there is a limit. Pepper would not be a better DC than Belichick, but belichick as GM/HC and Pepper as DC would be better than Belichick as GM/HC/DC (in addition to his other roles).

Belichick is now is the defacto GM, the HC, the DC and the OC. He makes all cruicial personal decisions and makes all key play calls.

 

[Deus Irae]

...But there is a limit. Pepper would not be a better DC than Belichick, but belichick as GM/HC and Pepper as DC would be better than Belichick as GM/HC/DC (in addition to his other roles).

Where is your evidence of this?

 

[bigfandan]

Set up an experiment, randomly select 3 games of equal sos, and have bill do DC for 3 games and have pepper do 3 games as dc.

Seriously, it's hard to know. But if BB is willing to pput himself on the line, fine. Here in Chicago, Bears have a similar dilemma; and ppl decided that they had enough of Lovie Smith's defense.

Where is your evidence of this?

 

[BelichickFan]

Belichick inow is the defacto GM, the HC, the DC and the OC. He makes all cruicial personal decisions and makes all key play calls.

O'Brien will make the calls, Belichick will be able to override him. Same as it ever was other than who makes the original call. Patricia, Johnson or Brown will make the defensive calls and Belichick will be able to override him. Same as it ever was other than who makes the original call.

I guess some people would be happier if someone had the title of OC and DC even if it changed absolutely nothing from what will happen next year. There is plenty of coaching talent - especially on defense - to get the job done. What difference would be giving someone a new title ? None.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I have had this issue with some bosses I've worked with in the past. Belichick may be better than anyone to perform each of the functions below. I certainly believe that he is. And maybe is SO, SO great, that he can step in and do two jobs well at the same time.

But there is a limit. Pepper would not be a better DC than Belichick, but belichick as GM/HC and Pepper as DC would be better than Belichick as GM/HC/DC (in addition to his other roles).

How do you know Pepper is the DC-in-Training? Why not Josh Boyer (despite the fact he's only had one year as an NFL position coach), he's been a college DC before? Why not Matt Patricia, he's been coaching the longest of any of the defensive coaches? Why not Corwin Brown, he's been a college DC before too?

The simple fact of the matter is Pepper is not ready to be a DC yet, neither are any of the others. Josh McDaniels talked about how BB had a lengthy checklist of topics for the two of them to discuss the last year Josh was here to prepare him for Head Coach, BB wants his coaches to succeed - as long as they don't screw him over. I'll bet anything Pepper and BB discussed the NYG DC position and BB offered to mentor Pepper for the next step in his career. I wouldn't be surprised if BB is using this as an opportunity for preparing Patricia and Brown as well (assuming one of them doesn't wind up being BB's DC-in-Training).

 

[DarrylS]

The simple fact of the matter is Pepper is not ready to be a DC yet, neither are any of the others. Josh McDaniels talked about how BB had a lengthy checklist of topics for the two of them to discuss the last year Josh was here to prepare him for Head Coach, BB wants his coaches to succeed - as long as they don't screw him over. I'll bet anything Pepper and BB discussed the NYG DC position and BB offered to mentor Pepper for the next step in his career. I wouldn't be surprised if BB is using this as an opportunity for preparing Patricia and Brown as well (assuming one of them doesn't wind up being BB's DC-in-Training).

If you look at this historically BB seems to have always wanted to protect the new guy, see Josh McDaniels, and these folks may be competing this year for the DC opening.. one thing that we do know about this franchise is that it is a meritocracy.. do believe that there will be an OC at the beginning of the season.

This season will be an ongoing test, behind the scenes, to see who emerges as the leader..

One thing this does is not allow for any scapegoats... Bill is it.

 

[chevss454]

One thing this does is not allow for any scapegoats... Bill is it.

If BB is going to get 100% involved, I'm all for it. He wouldn't take this role if he didn't think he could absolutely turn it around...his reputation is on the line here, folks. BB cares about his place in history!

Another angle that's been missed is this. As soon as BB trains and names a DC or OC, some other team comes along grabs them. By not naming, BB ensures coaching continuity an extra year or two or three.

 

[rabthepat]

This is like a drowning man asking for a drink of water. He is in over his head. This team needs more experienced assistant coaching and less Belichick ego.

 

[chevss454]

This is like a drowning man asking for a drink of water. He is in over his head. This team needs more experienced assistant coaching and less Belichick ego.

Who would you suggest who could possibly be better and more experienced than BB as the DC?

I say again, BB wouldn't do this unless he knew he could turn this defense around. His legacy and place in history are at stake. No excuses, no scapegoats...

 

[RobertWeathers]

I have had this issue with some bosses I've worked with in the past. Belichick may be better than anyone to perform each of the functions below. I certainly believe that he is. And maybe is SO, SO great, that he can step in and do two jobs well at the same time.

But there is a limit. Pepper would not be a better DC than Belichick, but belichick as GM/HC and Pepper as DC would be better than Belichick as GM/HC/DC (in addition to his other roles).

What is your challenge with the managers that you have worked with? Did they not delegate properly? Did they micro-manage? Did they manage "up" as opposed to "down"? Did they not make the departmental or organizational objectives clear and concise enough for the employees to follow? Was there not a clear delineation between acceptable and unacceptable performance and the consequences clearly defined if those went unattained?

From what I know, BBs organizational philosophy is nothing short of textbook on how you manage, delegate, mentor and promote. We've all seen it. Hes the type of senior manager who isn't afraid to get his hands dirty one minute coaching players and mentoring coaches themselves and vacillate back to strategy for both the team and the organization the next. In terms of him being "spread too thin" I don't think that goes on here.

What I am concerned with is DOES he have the talent beneath him to execute on his directives. O'Brien, Patricia, the Players...etc. BB will make mistakes, but I don't think staff structure will be the #1 reason the team doesn't perform next year.

 

[olschool]

What is your challenge with the managers that you have worked with? Did they not delegate properly? Did they micro-manage? Did they manage "up" as opposed to "down"? Did they not make the departmental or organizational objectives clear and concise enough for the employees to follow? Was there not a clear delineation between acceptable and unacceptable performance and the consequences clearly defined if those went unattained?

From what I know, BBs organizational philosophy is nothing short of textbook on how you manage, delegate, mentor and promote. We've all seen it. Hes the type of senior manager who isn't afraid to get his hands dirty one minute coaching players and mentoring coaches themselves and vacillate back to strategy for both the team and the organization the next. In terms of him being "spread too thin" I don't think that goes on here.

What I am concerned with is DOES he have the talent beneath him to execute on his directives. O'Brien, Patricia, the Players...etc. BB will make mistakes, but I don't think staff structure will be the #1 reason the team doesn't perform next year.

Totally agree. BB will go with what he thinks is right, no matter what the rest of the league does. His management style is hands on, and it's worked pretty well, considering his record.

Plus, why hire coordinators, if they're only going to leave in two years ?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Set up an experiment, randomly select 3 games of equal sos, and have bill do DC for 3 games and have pepper do 3 games as dc.

Seriously, it's hard to know. But if BB is willing to pput himself on the line, fine. Here in Chicago, Bears have a similar dilemma; and ppl decided that they had enough of Lovie Smith's defense.

The dilemma's aren't remotely similar.

Thing is there's nothing wrong with Lovie's defense other than it wore down under the pressure of playing absent a remotely functional offense for the last 4-5 seasons. Nothing Lovie could really do about that since he knows nothing about developing and running an offense coming from the Dungy tree, he was brought in to build a defense, and his GM (unlike say Polian) seemed determined not to provide him with a remotely functional QB until it was too late. That defense had a window and the GM blew it trying to recreate the 2000 Ravens and Lovie backed his play. That was a huge mistake in an era where QB's like Brady, Manning, Rothlisberger, et al are operating in their prime. Baltimore pulled it off on the cusp of that era, and their HC lost his job trying to replicate that success for the next several seasons. They will probably blow up the Bears in the lockout season as a result...

Defense still wins championships, but only if coupled with a high functioning offense because the teams you have to match up against invariably will have one - in part because the league wants them to and has legislated it be so.

Bill has always had a bead on what it takes to win, and that scoring points on offense is a large part of that picture. He has a fully developed offense here and a HOF QB to run it. What it lacked last season was sufficient weapons due to injuries exacerbated by a miscalculation. Those issues remain to be addressed in the draft and FA. If they are, he won't be spread too thin, he can focus on coaching up this defense in transition and scheming to stop the other guys QB... which is basically what he's always done since Brady became established.